Value of: WSH / MTL: If the Caps intend to compete while Ovy's still around what would they give for PMD Mike Matheson?

[CanadienShark]

Are Habs fans just going to make a mike matheson threads for every single team????? This is getting kind of annoying and I am a Habs fan sheesh.....

You and me both man...

Between Harris, Struble, Matheson, Xhekaj, Barron, WPG 1st, and Anderson, all these proposals are getting annoying. Our fellow Habs fans need to relax and stop making constant proposals. It's exactly why so many on these boards hate Habs fans.

If it's a legit prospect swap, which is rarely is, then fine. But it just feels like we're desperately trying to offload expendable assets in quantity for quality that other teams do not want.

 

[samsagat]

Tough sell to get someone to pay premium price for Matheson when Gostisbehere is hitting the market and available for a fraction of the price, and you get to keep your assets.

No comparison whatsoever between the two.

Matheson was used extensively, and he produced points, but if he wouldn't be given a free pass to play the way he wants, and had 2-3 less minutes of playing time, he wouldn't produce the same, but I'm sure his overall play would be better.

At 6'2" and skating like the wind, he has the potential to be a good 2-way defenseman, if he plays less (less mental fatigue) and more conservative.

He could be a 40-50 pts defenseman that plays tough minutes, a thing Gostisbehere will never be, as he's a diminutive unidimensional offensive defenseman.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Mike Matheson is 30 years old and had 1.5 good seasons. He’s not displacing anyone on Washington’s 1st PP unit, and most likely won’t hit those point totals in a Caps sweater. A GM would be crazy to offer a 1st rounder, prospect and a roster player for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

adding matheson helps them beat the rangers this year? no. so why mortgage the future for 2 years of a guy that would have not changed anything

No one player that is available can do that but maybe PLD, Matheson and Savard can. All I am saying is I do see a 2 year window for the Caps while Ovi chases the goal record.

If the plan for the Caps is to complete, I do think there needs to be improvements on D. If Dubois rebounds and is the guy he can be, that is a great add IMO. Now time to look at that D. Lots of depth but that's where they loose to the Rangers.

I think someone like Savard would be a great fit for Sandin. Sandin is worse than Matheson in his own zone. Savard can help with that. Would a Matheson/Carlson pairing work? Not sure. An argument can be made that Savard fits more than Matheson for the Caps.

 

[StephenPeat]

A puck mover on the RD side is almost impossible. Those who have it are not trading it. Habs had Guhle playing RD with Matheson. If Matheson had RD ability, we would have tried it. So if that is the search, Matheson doesn't fit the puck mover RD side.

What about both Matheson and Savard? Habs can retain 50% on one of them to make it more attractive in the cap. We can also dangle futures with them. Jets 1st, Flames 1st, Mesar... those kind of types.

Matheson / Carlson
Sandin / Savard.
Alexeyev / Jenson or TVR.

I think Savard would be a great RD for Sandin and if he fades, Alexeyev can fill that spot. Let them battle for it. Savard is not a puck mover but he might be the best fit in terms of making the D stronger and not exposing the goalie.

E Bear and/or Fehervary could be a piece going the other way (cap reasons). Habs would be looking at Leonard or Lapierre.

Fehervary (?) Lapierre (?), Leonard . No thanks. To any and all of that.

 

[samsagat]

An elite level skater and puck mover with 60 pts and on a value contract for 2 years. Worth a late 1st? NHL player, + prospect. Can you explain the NHL Player and prospect a bit more? A bit vague.

Matheson alone with no retention is worth something around 13-20 in this draft. If you spread that out to late 1st, and B type addes, that is his value at the 26 TDL. Not today. Some of you are living in the past (2+ years ago) with Matheson. Basically saying he can never improve from where he was with the Panthers and Pens. He's just as good/bad in his own end as Sergachev, Bouchard, Rielly, Chabot. List is deep but others want to compare him to Gost and DeAngelo.

My angle with Matheson is to offer 50% retention to make the cap strategy even more attractive. Love him to stay with the Habs but he doesn't fit our long term vision and he can help a playoff team more than the Habs in the next 2 seasons. And yes, I know Gorton/Hughes want to move up the standings.

The problem is Matheson was playing like an offensive loose canon last season, and this is not something NHL GMs usually like from a defenseman .

Look at the value of defensemen playing like that: Gostisbehere, Tyson Barrie and cie.

AFAIC, Matheson has the potential to be a good 2-way defenseman, playing tough minutes with efficiency.

But as of now, since Mtl offense was abysmal, I have the impression MSL gave him more a less a free pass to play the way he wanted in order to produce offense, even if it meant to sacrifice a little defense.

So as of now, that's how he's perceived: as an offensive loose canon defenseman.

And until he proves this perception to be wrong, that's how he's gonna be perceived.

And the late 1st + NHL player + prospect
is just because he's 6'2" and skating like the wind. Because he has the tools to be a good complete 200' defenseman.

Cause if he was 5'10" like Gostisbehere/Barrie, his value would be a lot less...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mike Matheson is 30 years old and had 1.5 good seasons. He’s not displacing anyone on Washington’s 1st PP unit, and most likely won’t hit those point totals in a Caps sweater. A GM would be crazy to offer a 1st rounder, prospect and a roster player for him.

Many of you don't understand usage/management. Caps just picked up Dubois who was playing 3C and 15 min's a game. You change that to 1C and 20 min's a game and his numbers/energy will change. I'm surprised to see so many overlook this part.

Matheson was playing 18 min a game with the Pens. 24+ with the Habs over the last two years. He's an elite skater with great vision and a very good shot. Always has high goal scoring ability from a D man. He's not any worse in his own zone than what Sergachev, Bouchard, Rielly, Chabot are in their own zones but fans target him more than others though.

 

[StephenPeat]

This is insane

Matheson has great trade value. 60 pts on a value contract for 2 years, and if we retain 50%, it's very high end trade value. No delusion there.

Savard is a very steady RD who is a great piece to pair with someone like Sandin. Protects him and Sandin had the worse +/- on the Caps D last year. He needs someone who can fill the D side and physicality side as his partner. No delusion there.

Leonard is a grade A for me. Matheson at 50% retention with Savard and the Jets 1st would make this close. I get it, you think you deserve more. I'm OK with no replies. Go shove your delusion words of choice somewhere else.

Lapierre is a strong middle 6F type who is NHL ready. Outside chance he reaches top 6F level.

I don't care about Fehervary being a cap going the other way or not. It's a minuscule part of this conversation. Focusing on that means you are easily distracted and lack focus.

Leonard will not be available for any base around Matheson, that’s downright asinine.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Fehervary (?) Lapierre (?), Leonard . No thanks. To any and all of that.

Don't care if there is any cap coming back or not. But if the Caps take both Matheson and Savard, cap has to come back to make the salary cap work. Could be E Bear. I really don't care because whoever you send, we don't have high plans for.

Leonard would be the target more than Lapierre. But I understand, Caps would rather look for other type improvements where they don't have to trade either of them.

As I think about it deeper, I think Savard is more of a need than Matheson is. Savard's value is less and at best, he returns a late 1st at the 25 TDL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Leonard will not be available for any base around Matheson, that’s downright asinine.

Matheson is worth more than just some late 1st though. I don't care if you agree or not but IMO, Matheson is worth a pick 13-20 range in this draft (with no retention). An elite skater/puck mover putting up 60 pts on a value contract for 2 years... has lots of value.

I understand the Caps value Leonard high but you won't get a Guhle already in the NHL for him. I also understand the Caps are not shopping him and he is almost untouchable.

Truth is in the middle. Matheson is worth more than what some are saying in this thread and Leonard is not being traded.

Lets say the situation was reversed. Habs were a playoff team and wanted to remain that way... Would I trade Reinbacher or Roy for a Matheson type? Probably not. But the difference here is my reply would be, I have no interest in making that kind of move. There is a way to say no with respect and without using trigger words.

 

[Misery74]

Don't care if there is any cap coming back or not. But if the Caps take both Matheson and Savard, cap has to come back to make the salary cap work. Could be E Bear. I really don't care because whoever you send, we don't have high plans for.

Leonard would be the target more than Lapierre. But I understand, Caps would rather look for other type improvements where they don't have to trade either of them.

As I think about it deeper, I think Savard is more of a need than Matheson is. Savard's value is less and at best, he returns a late 1st at the 25 TDL.

Neither Leonard nor Lapierre are available.

Leonard is too enticing, and it’s probably too late to acquire Lapierre. These are the two cornerstone prospects we have.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Neither Leonard nor Lapierre are available.

Leonard is too enticing, and it’s probably too late to acquire Lapierre. These are the two cornerstone prospects we have.

Best answer I got yet. As I think about this more, I think Savard is a better fit. Even though the Caps already have depth at RD.

I personally think you get more out of Sandin with Savard than Sandin with Jenson.

 

[hb13xchamps]

Many of you don't understand usage/management. Caps just picked up Dubois who was playing 3C and 15 min's a game. You change that to 1C and 20 min's a game and his numbers/energy will change. I'm surprised to see so many overlook this part.

Matheson was playing 18 min a game with the Pens. 24+ with the Habs over the last two years. He's an elite skater with great vision and a very good shot. Always has high goal scoring ability from a D man. He's not any worse in his own zone than what Sergachev, Bouchard, Rielly, Chabot are in their own zones but fans target him more than others though.

I understand usage just fine. He’s not going to play 24 minutes a night on most teams and he’s not anchoring the 1st PP unit on Washington. His ice time would go down quickly and so would his point total.

He’s not a fit in Washington and they aren’t paying the prices being thrown around here for him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I understand usage just fine. He’s not going to play 24 minutes a night on most teams and he’s not anchoring the 1st PP unit on Washington. His ice time would go down quickly and so would his point total.

He’s not a fit in Washington and they aren’t paying the prices being thrown around here for him.

Yes, that applies to others as well. If you give them that usage and they produce, it's it fair to still devalue them? There have been many guys who have got that usage/opportunity and couldn't produce. Matheson is underrated on HF boards.

Now we are getting the better context in replies. Less Matheson sucks narratives. As I think about it more and more, I think Savard is a better fit... even though the Caps have depth at RD. I think he is a really good fit with Sandin but he is also a good fit for Hutson on our team (if Hutson makes it right away).

Probably no trade that develops between the Caps and Habs.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Unless it’s for a RHD who can play 2RD the Caps likely aren’t interested. Fehervary, Sandin, and Alexeyev is a young, mobile set of LHD with the latter of the three really coming into his own last year. I like Matheson but I’d rather they find some help for Carlson so he doesn’t have to play half the game every night.

And Fehervary is not a thrown in by any means. Devils fans were proposing 10OA as a base for a Fehervary trade.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

This thread will be replied by certain Hab fans that thinks MM is worth the world please just get mad at them and not the Habs fan base as a whole thank you......

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Tough sell to get someone to pay premium price for Matheson when Gostisbehere is hitting the market and available for a fraction of the price, and you get to keep your assets.

What are you talking about?. Ghostisbere will likely get more than Matheson is making. And it depends what a yeam (Washington) would be looking for. Matheson is far better offensively.

 

[japhi]

Tell that to every Habs fan on HF....

Habs fan here, with no interesting in trading Matheson. He played a ton of minutes, all assignments, and put up 62 points. And makes sub 5 with two years of term left.

Yes we have a stack of dmen coming but you hold this guy and hope in the next 2 years you go on a playoff run. The minute you trade him, you'd need to go looking for a PMD so why trade him?

Some of our fans would love to roll quality vets into draft picks. Which begs the question, what is the point of drafting and developing if the idea is that you give away your vets right as they hit peal performance? We'd be ecstatic if we could draft and develop a puck moving, 25 min a night offensive dman yet here we are, trying desperately to get rid of one.

 

[Djp]

Washington doesn't need defense. They need forwards

Dont give MTL fans ideas like him playing 4LW

 

[AslanRH]

Dont give MTL fans ideas like him playing 4LW

well he is a great skater who puts up points but is questionable defensively....

 

[JuJu Mobb]

Are Habs fans just going to make a mike matheson threads for every single team????? This is getting kind of annoying and I am a Habs fan sheesh.....

Just walk away from the screen or ignore the thread.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This thread will be replied by certain Hab fans that thinks MM is worth the world please just get mad at them and not the Habs fan base as a whole thank you......

Don't get mad at anybody is what I say. People on these boards need a serious adjustment to learn how to have a conversation without trying to play got cha game. I guess I'm the stupid one for expecting a better culture where fans talk to each other, not yell and make fun of each other. Wishful thinking.

Imagine NHL GM's acting this way? Someone is going to reply... we are not NHL GM's (more got cha game shit). Well if you are here, you are a pretend NHL GM so if you want to act the role, do it properly. Learn how to talk even in a disagreement. It's not that complicated. I'm pretty sure NHL GM's disagree all the time but still talk with respect.

Just walk away from the screen or ignore the thread.

Pretty simple.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Wow this was a painful read.

Just no.

 

[Habs Halifax]

well he is a great skater who puts up points but is questionable defensively....

His Defense is not much different than looking at Sergachev, Chabot, Bouchard, Rielly. That list is pretty long and Matheson is on a value contract which is a substantial difference. But some fans are saying he is the worse or one of the worse in his own end. Nah, I don't see it that way. Not with his time on the Habs in his late 20's anyways. What I see is fans thinking he's the same guy when he was age 25 and it's impossible for him to improve at his late 20's. That's what I am seeing.

Caps say no. I get it. But if fans want to be ignorant towards Matheson and try devalue attempts, don't be surprised it's defended. Do you know who is bad in his own end? Sandin!

Time to shut this one down. Caps don't have interest and all you see now is Matheson value debates.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Its more the fact you telling the Caps we need this overrated D player because we traded for PLD and it would help Ovie get to 895 we should nuke our future and start trading Lappy, Fever, Leonard and 1st round picks for a 2 year run. Then get mad at us when we dont like the offer.