Value of: WSH / MTL: If the Caps intend to compete while Ovy's still around what would they give for PMD Mike Matheson?

[Roshi]

No, it's not close to that. Exaggeration doesn't help in terms of having any meaningful conversations.

Neither is downtalking. Like saying Fehervary is just a cap balancing piece.

Leonard was 8th overall in a good draft year and had really strong +1 year. Lapierre is close to winning playoffs MVP for AHL this year after having very solid big league debut.

These are not the pieces you get with a collection of what you dont need yourself.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Neither is downtalking. Like saying Fehervary is just a cap balancing piece.

Leonard was 8th overall in a good draft year and had really strong +1 year. Lapierre is close to winning playoffs MVP for AHL this year after having very solid big league debut.

These are not the pieces you get with a collection of what you dont need yourself.

I'm aware of who Leonard and Lapierre are. I'm also aware that the Caps added PLD and have a 2 year window to compete while Ovi chances the goal record. Lapierre is NHL ready so yeah, I can see the Caps wanting him on the roster as a ELC to save cap in those two years. One more RFA year and likely a bridge. Leonard is likely a 2+ year solution but he is a grade A trending well. Another NCAA season and then he turns pro?

Ideally, the Caps keep their two best young players yes. I would want that as well if I was you. However, if you want to improve the roster, you won't do that with grade B's.

Savard is worth a late 1st at this coming deadline. If he remains healthy and keeps providing the stable value he has.

Matheson as a rare puck mover and 60 pts on a value contract for two seasons? That is worth more than you are willing to admit. If the Habs offer 50% retention, that is very attractive to teams tight to the gap and we do have other futures to add on top to make it more attractive. You can say no but underselling it and then going to devalue after you say no is foolish.

 

[Roshi]

I'm aware of who Leonard and Lapierre are. I'm also aware that the Caps added PLD and have a 2 year window to compete while Ovi chances the goal record. Lapierre is NHL ready so yeah, I can see the Caps wanting him on the roster as a ELC to save cap in those two years. One more RFA year and likely a bridge. Leonard is likely a 2+ year solution but he is a grade A trending well. Another NCAA season and then he turns pro?

Ideally, the Caps keep their two best young players yes. I would want that as well if I was you. However, if you want to improve the roster, you won't do that with grade B's.

Savard is worth a late 1st at this coming deadline. If he remains healthy and keeps providing the stable value he has.

Matheson as a rare puck mover and 60 pts on a value contract for two seasons? That is worth more than you are willing to admit. If the Habs offer 50% retention, that is very attractive to teams tight to the gap and we do have other futures to add on top to make it more attractive. You can say no but underselling it and then going to devalue after you say no is foolish.

Im not denying Matheson is a good player, although he likely isnt a 60 point producer in many other teams. He is no getting those PP minutes in a lot of places.

Matheson has value, sure. But if you think you can get a Leonard-level prospect with Matheson as a key piece you are the one exaggerating. Adding quantity pieces that you dont need wont get it done.

And you are pretty high on Savard i guess. What you think Nick Jensen is worth?

 

[Random schmoe]

I'm OK with a no answer.

No.

 

[AslanRH]

You will accept this trade no matter the cost Cap fans or else this thread will go on for 10 more pages to allow the usual suspects to convince you.

 

[dgibb10]

Im not denying Matheson is a good player, although he likely isnt a 60 point producer in many other teams. He is no getting those PP minutes in a lot of places.

Matheson has value, sure. But if you think you can get a Leonard-level prospect with Matheson as a key piece you are the one exaggerating. Adding quantity pieces that you dont need wont get it done.

And you are pretty high on Savard i guess. What you think Nick Jensen is worth?

You're telling me most teams don't want to run their PP exclusively through Mike Matheson and have him get all the touches. It's worked so well for MTL (bottom 5 PP in the league with him at the helm) tho

 

[Habs Halifax]

No.

Wasn't hard right? The trap most play here is to belittle after they say no. That's the ridiculous part.

Im not denying Matheson is a good player, although he likely isnt a 60 point producer in many other teams. He is no getting those PP minutes in a lot of places.

Matheson has value, sure. But if you think you can get a Leonard-level prospect with Matheson as a key piece you are the one exaggerating. Adding quantity pieces that you dont need wont get it done.

And you are pretty high on Savard i guess. What you think Nick Jensen is worth?

Hard to say with Matheson on another team. Depends on usage. If you play him 2nd pairing and 2nd PP unit, he's probably not putting up 60 pts. But if you play him with Carlson and on the #1 unit, he probably does put up those numbers.

He's great at puck possession and his vision/shot from the point is also very good. I feel like most fans think of who he was 2+ years ago. He's a later bloomer with 2 good value contract years left. It's worth a lot but I understand why you don't want to trade Leonard.

Call me crazy but he's not as bad in his own zone as others are talking about. Not far off from what Sergachev, Bouchard, Chabot, etc are in their own zone.

 

[Pigskin]

Our goal is to get younger, not older. The style of player you are offering kinda suits, but they are just too old. The return you are suggesting is absurd. Hard pass.

 

[hockeykicker]

I wouldn't even trade lapierre for him. Ridiculous

 

[Misery74]

Matheson has great trade value. 60 pts on a value contract for 2 years, and if we retain 50%, it's very high end trade value. No delusion there.

Savard is a very steady RD who is a great piece to pair with someone like Sandin. Protects him and Sandin had the worse +/- on the Caps D last year. He needs someone who can fill the D side and physicality side as his partner. No delusion there.

Leonard is a grade A for me. Matheson at 50% retention with Savard and the Jets 1st would make this close. I get it, you think you deserve more. I'm OK with no replies. Go shove your delusion words of choice somewhere else.

Lapierre is a strong middle 6F type who is NHL ready. Outside chance he reaches top 6F level.

I don't care about Fehervary being a cap going the other way or not. It's a minuscule part of this conversation. Focusing on that means you are easily distracted and lack focus.

No chance either of those two get traded. Lapierre will be top 6 next year.

Leonard and Lapierre? f***ing seriously?

 

[trick9]

Tough sell to get someone to pay premium price for Matheson when Gostisbehere is hitting the market and available for a fraction of the price, and you get to keep your assets.

 

[PajamaBoy]

Leonard lol.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No chance either of those two get traded. Lapierre will be top 6 next year.

Leonard and Lapierre? f***ing seriously?

No, not both but one of them would be a target if we move Matheson. Of course other pieces are involved. Matheson with no retention is worth something around the 10-15 pick in this draft. A 60 pts guy who is elite at skating and on a value contract... that's worth a lot.

I understand why you would say no. But can we stop devaluing Matheson after you say no? Where did you get the comprehension it was both Leonard and Lapierre?

I also spoke towards Lapierre being a NHL ready piece the Caps would want to use now. One more ELC and then likely a bridge which creates cap strategy savings.

My only pitch for Leonard would be both Savard and Matheson and Habs retain 50% on Matheson to make it even more of a cap strategy advantage. Then other adds like Jets 1st, Mesar and maybe we take E Bear as a cap dump? Something like that but yes, I understand the answer can be still no.

 

[Rafafouille]

He's not worth that much to anyone outside of the Habs since he's only performed that much for 1 1/2 seasons here. I'm perfectly fine with that. Why would we trade him anyway? The goal isn't to become to Sabres, HuGo's goal seem to be competitive this year and make the playoffs next year. Trading Matheson doesn't move the needle that way, quite the opposite. I'd much rather trade one of the lower D prospects, a Barron, Struble, Harris than trade MM.

 

[hockeykicker]

No, not both but one of them would be a target if we move Matheson. Of course other pieces are involved. Matheson with no retention is worth something around the 10-15 pick in this draft. A 60 pts guy who is elite at skating and on a value contract... that's worth a lot.

I understand why you would say no. But can we stop devaluing Matheson after you say no? Where did you get the comprehension it was both Leonard and Lapierre?

I also spoke towards Lapierre being a NHL ready piece the Caps would want to use now. One more ELC and then likely a bridge which creates cap strategy savings.

My only pitch for Leonard would be both Savard and Matheson and Habs retain 50% on Matheson to make it even more of a cap strategy advantage. Then other adds like Jets 1st, Mesar and maybe we take E Bear as a cap dump? Something like that but yes, I understand the answer can be still no.

all he said was no to the players. where did he devalue matheson?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tough sell to get someone to pay premium price for Matheson when Gostisbehere is hitting the market and available for a fraction of the price, and you get to keep your assets.

A fair statement to some degree. Personally, I would value Matheson a bit more but yeah, Gost is free to acquire if he wants to sign with your team. Curious to see what kind of contract he gets this time around. Deangelo is available as well.

If the Habs move Matheson and a team is interested, it won't be a cheap move though. You would take the same approch if you were in our shoes.

 

[PajamaBoy]

So you want a lottery player who u will cost control until he is 27. For Mike Matheson. Who got booted outta Pitt . If he plays so well on your team hold him. Nobody doing that deal. Protect first at best plus prospect. No chance u land a blue chipper. Go to Seattle ask em for firkus or wright see if they give u same reaction.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's not worth that much to anyone outside of the Habs since he's only performed that much for 1 1/2 seasons here. I'm perfectly fine with that. Why would we trade him anyway? The goal isn't to become to Sabres, HuGo's goal seem to be competitive this year and make the playoffs next year. Trading Matheson doesn't move the needle that way, quite the opposite. I'd much rather trade one of the lower D prospects, a Barron, Struble, Harris than trade MM.

You believe that because you talk to fans. Trades are usually circumstantial (like the Dubois/Kuemper trade). Imagine posting that trade before it happened? I can only imagine the comments.

I do think the Habs want to move up the standings and keep Matheson. But if there was a trade to get a grade A like Leonard, we are not saying no.

Barron has good value. He's taking a bit to mature but he is a big mobile RD with a great shot. I suspect he will be one of those types who shows maturity from age 25-30 (like Matheson).

Harrris has little value. Undersized D man and a bottom paring depth guy.

Struble had a great 1st year of development after turning pro. He's ahead on the maturity scale but it's early.

 

[CTHabsfan]

IF Washington were interested in Mike Matheson, I doubt they'd be willing to offer anything of interest to Montreal. The Canadiens still need some vets on D and really have no reason to trade Matheson, unless blown away by an offer. I could see where the Canadiens are satisfied with their young D and decide to make a trade at the deadline, at which time they can probably get a better return than they would today.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Our goal is to get younger, not older. The style of player you are offering kinda suits, but they are just too old. The return you are suggesting is absurd. Hard pass.

I think your goal (from outside looking in) is to remain competitive while Ovi chases the goal record and others have expiring contracts. Now, this doesn't come at a complete cost to the future but if the Caps want to add pieces now, it might cost them a piece they rather not give. Not saying that's for Matheson only. There are many other options out there. I see a thin youth pool but a team that still wants to win. You are more than likely going to have to rebuild after 2 more seasons. Not even sure a retool/reset will work.

Improve your team without trading futures? Wonder how many more Dubois/Kuemper trades you can make?

 

[hockeykicker]

I think your goal (from outside looking in) is to remain competitive while Ovi chases the goal record and others have expiring contracts. Now, this doesn't come at a complete cost to the future but if the Caps want to add pieces now, it might cost them a piece they rather not give. Not saying that's for Matheson only. There are many other options out there. I see a thin youth pool but a team that still wants to win.

Improve your team without trading futures? Wonder how many more Dubois/Kuemper trades you can make?

adding matheson helps them beat the rangers this year? no. so why mortgage the future for 2 years of a guy that would have not changed anything

 

[thefutures]

I think your goal (from outside looking in) is to remain competitive while Ovi chases the goal record and others have expiring contracts. Now, this doesn't come at a complete cost to the future but if the Caps want to add pieces now, it might cost them a piece they rather not give. Not saying that's for Matheson only. There are many other options out there. I see a thin youth pool but a team that still wants to win.

Improve your team without trading futures? Wonder how many more Dubois/Kuemper trades you can make?

You know about free agency right? Matheson is a dime a dozen, Ghost can give you virtually the same thing. How are you going to tell Washington fans where their team is at and how they should view their top prospects? Washington is not a contender right now and wont trade futures like they are. You get butthurt over the truth that Matheson is not coveted, that's not anyone else's problem

 

[samsagat]

I'm a Habs fan but I think some are a little delusional when it comes to Matheson's value.

AFAIC, Matheson's value should be around:

Late 1st or 2nd (if prospect/young NHL player is a good one) + NHL player (young or not) + prospect.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You know about free agency right? Matheson is a dime a dozen, Ghost can give you virtually the same thing. How are you going to tell Washington fans where their team is at and how they should view their top prospects? Washington is not a contender right now and wont trade futures like they are. You get butthurt over the truth that Matheson is not coveted, that's not anyone else's problem

Matheson is not a dime a dozen. That's a false narrative. Just say you don't have interest in trading either of Lapierre or Leonard. Getting cranky at Habs defending Matheson's value is on you. Saying no and then going on to devalue a player is the foolish part of HF board trade threads and many of you don't realize it.

Caps just made a risky move in adding Dubois but it could pay off because I think the usage/management will be different. Gets to play with Ovi too. Dubois was also good at the last WC's and the Jets really did want to sign him. Some fans saying he is cancer are reaching and having a bandwagon hate party that is out of control. It's the same BS going on with you and your dime a dozen exaggeration towards Matheson.

I do see the Caps trying to remain competitive in the next 2 years. How much more moves and what type of moves they try? Not sure but there still is a 2 year window when you look at that roster and what contracts are about to expire. I bet you Ovi retires the season after he breaks the goal record and I see that happening in 2 seasons.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm a Habs fan but I think some are a little delusional when it comes to Matheson's value.

AFAIC, Matheson's value should be around:

Late 1st or 2nd (if prospect/young NHL player is a good one) + NHL player (young or not) + prospect.

An elite level skater and puck mover with 60 pts and on a value contract for 2 years. Worth a late 1st? NHL player, + prospect. Can you explain the NHL Player and prospect a bit more? A bit vague.

Matheson alone with no retention is worth something around 13-20 in this draft. If you spread that out to late 1st, and B type addes, that is his value at the 26 TDL. Not today. Some of you are living in the past (2+ years ago) with Matheson. Basically saying he can never improve from where he was with the Panthers and Pens. He's just as good/bad in his own end as Sergachev, Bouchard, Rielly, Chabot. List is deep but others want to compare him to Gost and DeAngelo.

My angle with Matheson is to offer 50% retention to make the cap strategy even more attractive. Love him to stay with the Habs but he doesn't fit our long term vision and he can help a playoff team more than the Habs in the next 2 seasons. And yes, I know Gorton/Hughes want to move up the standings.