Wow the playoffs are intense. Can we compete

[Gary Nylund]

You and I, and everyone else reading, knows exactly who is too much of a child to admit he was wrong.

While you and leafs nation insisted Andersen was an elite goalie during those first 3 years, l'il ole zeke pointed out that he was average to above average at best - or, if you will, a "borderline top-10 goalie in a 30 team league".

And now after all this time, after all the insults, you finally agree.

Keep repeating yourself, making stuff up and saying black is white. I think you should see a shrink.

If Andersen wasn't getting smoked by the opposing goalie(s) in every series we likely win all of them.

Holtby outplayed him badly.

Rask destroyed him.

Columbus goalies were much better.

There is no getting past the fact that if not for Andersen losing the goalie match ups badly we likely win all those series.

If team was better in game 6 in front of Andersen, we take it down in 6. And CLB - you can't win a game when you get shut out.

Andersen has been uneven in the playoffs, certainly not true that he's always been to blame for us losing.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Keep repeating yourself, making stuff up and saying black is white. I think you should see a shrink.



If team was better in game 6 in front of Andersen, we take it down in 6. And CLB - you can't win a game when you get shut out.

Andersen has been uneven in the playoffs, certainly not true that he's always been to blame for us losing.

The Columbus goalies had a 945 sv % in that series. We couldn't score on them. GOALTENDING. That's the point Gary.

 

[SwissLeaf]

We should forget the past for now.

I'm pretty confident that we'll see more than 1 series...after that everything's possible! We can & we will!!

 

[Suntouchable13]

The Columbus goalies had a 945 sv % in that series. We couldn't score on them. GOALTENDING. That's the point Gary.

Then what's the point in spending 40M in 4 forwards when all you want to do is blame the goaltending? They should be able to score on Korpi and Elvis.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Then what's the point in spending 40M in 4 forwards when all you want to do is blame the goaltending? They should be able to score on Korpi and Elvis.

What do you think the point of that is? So we can still win a playoff series if our goaltender is letting in soft, untimely goals and being badly outplayed by the other guys? This is the plan?

The point of signing those guys is to have as strong a roster as possible... but no one banks on winning a playoff series when your goalie is badly outplayed.

 

[Suntouchable13]

What do you think the point of that is? So we can still win a playoff series if our goaltender is letting in soft, untimely goals and being badly outplayed by the other guys? This is the plan?

The point of signing those guys is to have as strong a roster as possible... but no one banks on winning a playoff series when your goalie is badly outplayed.

My point is they should have scored plenty on korpi and Elvis for Andersen's goaltending to not matter. It's disingenuous to blame goaltending when there were other issues at play.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Remember how we would beat those massively favoured, uber talented, young Senators back in the day just because our goalie would be way better than their goalie?

 

[zeke]

Keep repeating yourself, making stuff up and saying black is white. I think you should see a shrink.

Again, I am glad you have seen the light and are agreeing with what zeke said all along (which you mocked and insulted him for at the time).

As for your inability to admit your were so badly wrong, that's too bad.

 

[zeke]

My point is they should have scored plenty on korpi and Elvis for Andersen's goaltending to not matter. It's disingenuous to blame goaltending when there were other issues at play.

It's definitely unacceptable for them to not all be around ppg, true enough.

We'll eventually learn whether that 5gm series after months off was weird fluke, hot goaltending, or hopeless choking by our big 4.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Again, I am glad you have seen the light and are agreeing with what zeke said all along (which you mocked and insulted him for at the time).

Agree with most of your point re goaltending but a little concerned you're referring to yourself in the 3rd person like an NFL wideout.

 

[Notsince67]

The leafs outplayed Columbus in every game save 1 during the playdowns and that 1 was pretty close to a draw.
The really stupid hot -takes really have gone far enough. It started with Marner, pushed to Nylander and traveled throughtout the roster to finally sit with the culpable position....Goalie.

 

[Stephen]

Pierre Lebrun just said on the radio that the Leafs players were dead silent when the Blue Jackets would chirp them in the play-in round. Just goes to reiterate why certain veteran upgrades were made and why such an emphasis was put on upgrading the dressing room.

 

[Marshy]

So is the argument:

Mediocre is the same as "borderline top 10" (out out of approx 40ish starters / tandem goalies)?


By definition, wouldn't mediocre be 18ish-22 ish?


Medi....latin for "middle" ...

....I just made that up.


Not taking sides...sorry carry on!

 

[Goomba]

The bigger concern to me is that if we win the North, we'll be playing road games in front of packed houses and home games in an empty stadium.

I doubt the Leafs will have home games in Toronto

More likely they play in Buffalo's arena

 

[zeke]

So is the argument:

Mediocre is the same as "borderline top 10" (out out of approx 40ish starters / tandem goalies)?


By definition, wouldn't mediocre be 18ish-22 ish?


Medi....latin for "middle" ...

....I just made that up.


Not taking sides...sorry carry on!

40? Why not 50?

But I am (and always was) fine with calling him moderately above average, in his good years.

As long as everyone is now agreeing with l'il Ole zeke that he was never close to elite, then we're all happy.

 

[authentic]

I get what you're saying, but competing is all fine and dandy but success is found in the W's

For sure but if the young Leafs could take the Bruins to game 7 I'm not worried about their ability to compete and compete well with their current team against any opponent.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Pierre Lebrun just said on the radio that the Leafs players were dead silent when the Blue Jackets would chirp them in the play-in round. Just goes to reiterate why certain veteran upgrades were made and why such an emphasis was put on upgrading the dressing room.

We already knew what we had to know when it was left to Jason Spezza to drop the gloves.However we didn't lose that series because we weren't talking back. We outplayed them.

 

[Marshy]

40? Why not 50?

But I am (and always was) fine with calling him moderately above average, in his good years.

As long as everyone is now agreeing with l'il Ole zeke that he was never close to elite, then we're all happy.

I think as you get closer the the 50th goalie sample size is too small. Easier to put up good numbers playing < 15 or so games.


I was actually thinking fewer. How many teams use/used tamdems? I have no idea but I'll guesstimate 10 -12? Can't be arsed to check...feel free tho!

20 full time starters.... 22 tandem types (2 X 11)....that's what...around 42 goalies playing more than 30 ish games per 82?

give or take 4?

 

[kevsh]

Canadiens 27 hits per 60/min led the league. That's a lot of physicality they're bringing to the series. What say you Sheldon Keefe?

“In terms of the confidence, we've played against Montreal 10 times here in the regular season and, statistically at least, they're right up at the top of league in physicality. So, we've dealt with that. We're used to it.”

What he didn't point out of course was that not only did the Leafs "deal with" the physicality of the Habs, they beat them 7 times out of 10.

Leafs ready for series vs. Canadiens to get ugly: 'It's going to be a war'

 

[Stephen]

We already knew what we had to know when it was left to Jason Spezza to drop the gloves.However we didn't lose that series because we weren't talking back. We outplayed them.

There were definitely games in the series we should have won but didn’t in addition to the meltdown in Game 3. But Game 5 was definitely not their greatest moment.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The Columbus goalies had a 945 sv % in that series. We couldn't score on them. GOALTENDING. That's the point Gary.

What do you think the point of that is? So we can still win a playoff series if our goaltender is letting in soft, untimely goals and being badly outplayed by the other guys? This is the plan?

The point of signing those guys is to have as strong a roster as possible... but no one banks on winning a playoff series when your goalie is badly outplayed.

There's only so much "blame" you can assign to the guy with the .936 SV%. At some point you have to take a look at the forwards who are making the opposing goalies look good and even missing the empty net on occasion.

Again, I am glad you have seen the light and are agreeing with what zeke said all along (which you mocked and insulted him for at the time).

As for your inability to admit your were so badly wrong, that's too bad.

It might interest you to know that more than one person has PM'd me to tell me that discussing anything with you is a waste of time. I won't elaborate in case something they said might violate the rules of this place but I'll just take their advice and drop this subject.

"never wrestle with a pig – it gets mud all over you and the pig likes it".
Mark Twain

 

[zeke]

I think as you get closer the the 50th goalie sample size is too small. Easier to put up good numbers playing < 15 or so games.


I was actually thinking fewer. How many teams use/used tamdems? I have no idea but I'll guesstimate 10 -12? Can't be arsed to check...feel free tho!

20 full time starters.... 22 tandem types (2 X 11)....that's what...around 42 goalies playing more than 30 ish games per 82?

give or take 4?

the dirty secret here is that gary actually used my longtime line from back then in this thread without realizing that I incepted it in his head back then - i.e. that Fred was "borderline top-10" or "above average". I often added in the word "workhorse" to glow that up a bit. That was the phrase i used the most for him back then during his good years, and received mucho criticism for. But because i couldn't care less about going back and digging through old posts just to win an internet argument i'm fine with Gary trying to nitpick me on the semantics of "mediocre" - either way, both he and I know what was said back then.

so as long as we're all agreeing that "borderline top-10" or "above average workhorse" is a good description of what Fred was back in his good years, then i feel validated. I don't actually expect the folks who've insulted me for year to ever admit they were wrong.

 

[zeke]

It might interest you to know that more than one person has PM'd me to tell me that discussing anything with you is a waste of time. I won't elaborate in case something they said might violate the rules of this place but I'll just take their advice and drop this subject.

"never wrestle with a pig – it gets mud all over you and the pig likes it".
Mark Twain

I am certain you and your buddies make all sorts of clever secret burns in your PMs.

That doesn't change that not only were you blatantly wrong, but you're too childish to admit it.

 

[showtime8]

Caps over us in 6, 5 games to overtime. Considering that we were the 8th seed that finished in dead last the year before and the Caps had just won the President's trophy, I'd say our guys acclimated themselves extremely well. Matthews had 4 goals and 1 assist, Marner and Nylander each had 1g 3a.

Bruins in 7 twice. Bruins were ahead of us in the standings both years but not by THAT much. Matthews had 2 points in 17-18, Nylander had 4, Marner had 9. In 18-19, Matthews had 6, Tavares had 5, Marner had 4, and Nylander 3. The Bruins went 33% and then 45% on the PP in those series, accounting for 7 goals each time.

Columbus over us in 5. We couldn't score on their goalies, Korpisalo and Merzlikins both had like .945sv%. We should have won this series, but we dominated the scoring chances the whole way through and just got outgoalied. Columbus's physicality was part of their game plan, but they lose quickly and quietly if they get even slightly worse goaltending.

We lost all of those series and physicality is part of what made our opponents good teams, but it is not the reason that we lost. Special teams and goaltending were far more impactful. Physicality is a good thing for a team to have, especially over the course of a series, but it's nowhere near big enough of a factor against us to be the deciding factor. Marner hung 9 points on the Bruins in 17-18, he's not going to be scared of Josh Anderson or Shea Weber any more than he was afraid of DeBrusk and Chara.

You definitely make some good points and I guess it's not fair to say directly that the lack of physicality loss the series for the Leafs. And there's no way to quantify that more/less hitting leads to a series win. Goaltending seems to be the common denominator in all of the series losses though.

 

[Notsince67]

Keep repeating yourself, making stuff up and saying black is white. I think you should see a shrink.



If team was better in game 6 in front of Andersen, we take it down in 6. And CLB - you can't win a game when you get shut out.

Andersen has been uneven in the playoffs, certainly not true that he's always been to blame for us losing.

How is it that Andersen can't be blamed for all the goals that he lets in but also cant be blamed at all for all the goals that aren't scored? You don't believe goaltender confidence drives offense?
The Leafs outplayed the CBJ's in 4 out of 5 games and played 1 to a virtual tie.
The first shutout for instance (the virtual tie) had the leafs register 11 medium and high danger shots vs columbus at 6. I seem to remember the rebound control and puck freezing was non-existent. It kinds of favours low danger shots in search of rebounds. It also keeps your players locked into the dzone.
Andersen was not good.