Would you want the leafs to trade Matthew’s if they lose next game?

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

If management watched the arena empty halfway through the third period of a second round Game 5 and isn't seriously considering blowing it up, they're completely brain dead.

With all due respect to the posters above me who are writing posts about how division winners never blow it up, but you're both in the top 1% of hard-headed posters on this forum. It would be easier to teach my cat English than to convince either of you of anything. You do you, nothing wrong with being stubborn and I love the gumption to stand out from the rampaging herd, but damn my dudes, in all of these different threads the undercurrent of the fanbase, beneath the roiling anger is a growing sense of apathy. People aren't just mad, they're checking out.

If MLSE only cares about money, as is so often argued, then the five bell alarms are going off about fanbase apathy. A few years of apathy from a fanbase can destroy market share in a way that takes a decade to recover from. Money from 3-5 playoff home games every year for the next five years isn't financially worth losing a generation to apathy.

If MLSE cares about being running a serious hockey program (no, I don't believe it either) then they look at the results of the last PICK A DURATION OF YOUR CHOICE and make a change. They won the Division? Raise a f***ing banner if you like, but they're going to do the exact same shit next year and the year after that and the year after that. Remember how stubborn you are? Well, this Leafs team is pretty obviously as stubborn as you and I have eight or nine years of evidence for you and this team to point to.

Ultimately, I expect that you will be right. They won't trade Matthews. But I will disagree with your reasoning. It won't be because they want to keep a good team together, it won't even be that they're stubborn. Shanahan was stubborn, but we all know he's getting fired. If they don't trade Matthews and give this team the exorcism that it needs, it's because they're cowards.

Nobody is checking out.

They might be SAYING they are checking out but you and I both know it's bullshit.

Anybody on here saying they are checking out will be right back here for the draft or free agency, or October at the absolute LATEST.

Anybody not on here saying they are checking out will be in the arena, or in front of the TV or computer, or Ipad, whatever they use to consume the games.

Nobody is checking out it's bullshit and you and I both know it, at least I do.

And you know how I know? Because "Leafanforlife" isn't just my user name it's what I am, it's who I am.

I was there in 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 I saw it ALL.

Salute gate

Waffle gate

Jersey gate

Peter f***ing Horecheck

JFJ

I saw it ALL, EVERYTHING.

NOBODY checked out.

If that was going to happen that's when it would have happened.

I thought it was going to.

It didn't

It won't

 

[The Iceman]

Gretzky says hi, and the Oilers who won a cup after he was traded also say hi………

If you think Edmonton won the Gretzky trade you a misremembering.
Edmonton also lost 1st round of the playoffs the year after he was traded.

Gretzky turned the LA franchis around and made them relevant.
Seasons of 168, 142, 163, 121 points in successive seasons.

 

[rumman]

If you think Edmonton won the Gretzky trade you a misremembering.
Edmonton also lost 1st round of the playoffs the year after he was traded.

Gretzky turned the LA franchis around and made them relevant.
Seasons of 168, 142, 163, 121 points in successive seasons.

The point was a team doesn’t die even if they trade the greatest player in history…….

 

[TheScandal89]

If you think Edmonton won the Gretzky trade you a misremembering.
Edmonton also lost 1st round of the playoffs the year after he was traded.

Gretzky turned the LA franchis around and made them relevant.
Seasons of 168, 142, 163, 121 points in successive seasons.

The Oilers also won a cup without Gretzky, while Gretzky never won again.

 

[Tak7]

I voted yes emotionally after Wednesday night, but I'm going to back to saying NO.

I really want to see what he looks like surrounded by actual hungry, driven players around him, and not guys like Marner who are built far too similarly to the way he is.

He has so much natural talent, and we've at least seen glimpses of it come playoff time.

I also just don't think you win a trade involving a guy who has full NMC protection.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I voted yes emotionally after Wednesday night, but I'm going to back to saying NO.

I really want to see what he looks like surrounded by actual hungry, driven players around him, and not guys like Marner who are built far too similarly to the way he is.

He has so much natural talent, and we've at least seen glimpses of it come playoff time.

I also just don't think you win a trade involving a guy who has full NMC protection.

I don't see how NMC makes it harder to "win a trade", he either agrees to waive or he doesn't.

That said, I wouldn't trade him yet either. The D being so old is the big issue, we have probably one more year, two at best before they collectively decline hard and fast and once that happens, it'll likely take a decade to rebuild considering how empty the cupboards are. The goaltending is good, so is the D, there's a lot of talent up front, we've gone this far so may as well take one more kick at the can with Matthews.

 

[Tak7]

I don't see how NMC makes it harder to "win a trade", he either agrees to waive or he doesn't.

That said, I wouldn't trade him yet either. The D being so old is the big issue, we have probably one more year, two at best before they collectively decline hard and fast and once that happens, it'll likely take a decade to rebuild considering how empty the cupboards are. The goaltending is good, so is the D, there's a lot of talent up front, we've gone this far so may as well take one more kick at the can with Matthews.

He's only going to want to go to a contender - and he might only give you 1 team.

Most contenders don't have the cap space to absorb his deal, making it a deal where you're going to have to take back some money, which immediately influences the sort of return you're going to get.

 

[thewave]

I don't have the info about his injury. Kind of hard to discard a rocket winner because an injury that can be healed or not.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs should do whatever is best for the crest on the front and not the name on the back.

 

[Smif]

I don't have the info about his injury. Kind of hard to discard a rocket winner because an injury that can be healed or not.

Exactly. I feel it's the same injury he was dealing with during round 1 of last year. He was told, take time in the summer to heal but it didn't, it's been nagging him all season. I won't be surprised if they take a more aggressive approach this off season and he gets surgery which could knock him out for an extended period.

 

[LeafGrief]

As long as they keep selling out Scotiabank Arena, i doubt they care.
As long as the bottomline is on the green, i doubt they care.
We´ve been in the worst possbile scenario for a few seasons now. Too good to get high draft picks, too inadequate to go for a Cup run.
Has anything of significance changed?

I do hope i´m wrong and some massive moves are made this off season.

There is a very direct line between a half empty arena during a playoff game and being afraid for their sellout streak. They don't give a rat's ass about the team other than the bottom line, that I believe, but the long term bottom line is absolutely in danger.

Nobody is checking out.

And you know how I know? Because "Leafanforlife" isn't just my user name it's what I am, it's who I am.

I was there in 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 I saw it ALL.

Dude, I know perfectly well that most of us HFboard'ers are going to be here next year and beyond. Anybody who stuck around after the Montreal series is going to be a Leafs Fan For Life. When people like me check out, we stop spending money. I didn't buy a streaming package this year for the first time in a decade, maybe watched 20 games all regular season. Haven't bought merch or a jersey in years. It's not even out on display in my house any more.

I know SO many people in real life who used to be passionate fans who just don't care about the Leafs any more. My best friend from university who was as passionate as I am, watches basketball now. Doesn't follow the Leafs any more. My good friend and Leafs buddy here in Ottawa, we went to games together and watched the Montreal series on zoom during covid, watches baseball and doesn't even know who's on the team aside the core names any more. My cousins still watch pretty often, they care but they mostly talk about football instead of the Leafs. I don't care if you tell me that NOBODY is checking out, because I've been watching them go out the door for years.

Tell me, you've seen all the shit and I've seen all the shit. Have you EVER, in the entire NHL, seen a half empty rink in the third period of a playoff game? I know you haven't, because that shit doesn't happen. I know you're not going to check out of this fanbase, and I know that I'm enough of a Leafs fan that when I die they'll bury the corpse wearing Leafs socks, but 99% of Leafs fans aren't you, and 90% of Leafs fans aren't me (or the rest of the zealots on this board). Argue all you like, but we all saw the half empty building. The casuals and my friends will come back if they have something to cheer for, but they're done cheering for this core.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

There is a very direct line between a half empty arena during a playoff game and being afraid for their sellout streak. They don't give a rat's ass about the team other than the bottom line, that I believe, but the long term bottom line is absolutely in danger.


Dude, I know perfectly well that most of us HFboard'ers are going to be here next year and beyond. Anybody who stuck around after the Montreal series is going to be a Leafs Fan For Life. When people like me check out, we stop spending money. I didn't buy a streaming package this year for the first time in a decade, maybe watched 20 games all regular season. Haven't bought merch or a jersey in years. It's not even out on display in my house any more.

I know SO many people in real life who used to be passionate fans who just don't care about the Leafs any more. My best friend from university who was as passionate as I am, watches basketball now. Doesn't follow the Leafs any more. My good friend and Leafs buddy here in Ottawa, we went to games together and watched the Montreal series on zoom during covid, watches baseball and doesn't even know who's on the team aside the core names any more. My cousins still watch pretty often, they care but they mostly talk about football instead of the Leafs. I don't care if you tell me that NOBODY is checking out, because I've been watching them go out the door for years.

Tell me, you've seen all the shit and I've seen all the shit. Have you EVER, in the entire NHL, seen a half empty rink in the third period of a playoff game? I know you haven't, because that shit doesn't happen. I know you're not going to check out of this fanbase, and I know that I'm enough of a Leafs fan that when I die they'll bury the corpse wearing Leafs socks, but 99% of Leafs fans aren't you, and 90% of Leafs fans aren't me (or the rest of the zealots on this board). Argue all you like, but we all saw the half empty building. The casuals and my friends will come back if they have something to cheer for, but they're done cheering for this core.

For the most part the only time I talk about the team to anyone or I see anyone else talking about the team anymore is on this site.

Nobody at my work talks about the Leafs. Nobody at the gym I go to talks about the Leafs. I never overhear casual conversations about the Leafs... except right about this time every year actually.

Right when they're on the brink of blowing it again is the only time you hear anyone talking about them anymore, and that only lasts for about a week, and then the joke isn't funny anymore again.

It's just sad.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's only going to want to go to a contender - and he might only give you 1 team.

Most contenders don't have the cap space to absorb his deal, making it a deal where you're going to have to take back some money, which immediately influences the sort of return you're going to get.

I would assume he'd give more than 1 team. But other than that, those seem like valid points.

 

[LeafGrief]

For the most part the only time I talk about the team to anyone or I see anyone else talking about the team anymore is on this site.

Nobody at my work talks about the Leafs. Nobody at the gym I go to talks about the Leafs. I never overhear casual conversations about the Leafs... except right about this time every year actually.

Right when they're on the brink of blowing it again is the only time you hear anyone talking about them anymore, and that only lasts for about a week, and then the joke isn't funny anymore again.

It's just sad.

Nobody thinks they can kill the Golden Goose. I've been saying for years now that this fanbase is shrinking. We're nutters here, it's why I love it so much, but even we lose people and the casuals have been drying up for a long time. I expect MLSE to be incompetent, but the alarm bells have to be going off for them. The fans were passionate during the rebuild. The Habs have been struggling through theirs for a while and the passion is still strong with their fans, I only know a single one (out of dozens, my inlaws are all Habs fans) who's lost his interest.

This is an entertainment product and the product is stale. Letting Marner and Tavares walk as UFA's is not enough, this team needs an exorcism, and it needs it badly. Matthews must go.

 

[centipede2233]

You guys remember several years ago, in a pre season game, matthews does this check the opposing players name plate as if to say “who are you”, that’s all you need to know about matthews, just a selfish guy. Maybe he should be more concerned with the front crest then the nameplate

 

[Matthews4Calder]

No , changes would be necessary, but that would be an incredibly stupid thing to do.

The worst move in franchise history.

Why do you say that? Sure the guy's an elite scorer but he doesn't deliver in the playoffs. Here's my take Marner is probably gone. JT unless he takes less than 7 can walk also. Team has nothing on the Marlies that brings hope, no. 1st round picks for the next 2 years, low amount of picks to boot and maybe one player in Easton Cowan that looks like an NHL'er. Matthews is your only hope to trade and return some good players and/or drafts to start some kind of rebuild. Or you retool with the cap space from losing Marner and JT and build something else around 34. My point is how many more years of playoff failure from him do you want to see?

 

[Stephen]

It’s going to be really hard to follow this guy moving forward. Watching a guy try to keep pace with the Draisaitl’s and Mackinnon’s of the world and building a championship playoff pedigree to constantly resetting and lower expectations, open ended injury watch and massive doubt that he’s even a replacement level offensive forward when the games are big. And by big, first and second round playoffs. What a fall from grace.

 

[Stephen]

You guys remember several years ago, in a pre season game, matthews does this check the opposing players name plate as if to say “who are you”, that’s all you need to know about matthews, just a selfish guy. Maybe he should be more concerned with the front crest then the nameplate

He can be that arrogant guy as long as he’s a big game assassin and going deep in the playoffs. McDavid and Draisaitl aren’t nice. Mackinnon isn’t nice. But they go deep.

 

[centipede2233]

He can be that arrogant guy as long as he’s a big game assassin and going deep in the playoffs. McDavid and Draisaitl aren’t nice. Mackinnon isn’t nice. But they go deep.

Those 3 guys have that dawg in them to win, matthews doesn’t.

 

[Stephen]

Those 3 guys have that dawg in them to win, matthews doesn’t.

Pound for pound Matthews has the least dawg in him among all Leafs players.

 

[ULF_55]

Pound for pound Matthews has the least dawg in him among all Leafs players.

Pontus Holmberg, Calle Jarnkrok set to slot back in for Toronto Maple Leafs in Game 6 | TSN

The Toronto Maple Leafs appear to be making some lineup changes for Friday night's do-or-die Game 6 against the Florida Panthers.

www.tsn.ca

I missed this game, but this is just WOW commentary.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Did he actually have any serious offseason training? He was injured at the end of last season.

I wonder if he was concussed at the end of the season last year and the symptoms lingered so long into the summer that he couldn't really train the usual way. It seemed like he was skating in mud at the beginning of this season.

 

[Stephen]

View attachment 1037167

Pontus Holmberg, Calle Jarnkrok set to slot back in for Toronto Maple Leafs in Game 6 | TSN

The Toronto Maple Leafs appear to be making some lineup changes for Friday night's do-or-die Game 6 against the Florida Panthers.

www.tsn.ca

I missed this game, but this is just WOW commentary.

I’m a Bryan Hayes guy and this is not really exaggeration. Just like Mitchy and Austy managed to cough away Game 2 vs Florida in 2023 with their Mickey Mouse zone exits.

 

[ruaware41]

Nobody thinks they can kill the Golden Goose. I've been saying for years now that this fanbase is shrinking. We're nutters here, it's why I love it so much, but even we lose people and the casuals have been drying up for a long time. I expect MLSE to be incompetent, but the alarm bells have to be going off for them. The fans were passionate during the rebuild. The Habs have been struggling through theirs for a while and the passion is still strong with their fans, I only know a single one (out of dozens, my inlaws are all Habs fans) who's lost his interest.

This is an entertainment product and the product is stale. Letting Marner and Tavares walk as UFA's is not enough, this team needs an exorcism, and it needs it badly. Matthews must go.

You know back when I was in high school I recall several discussions about things being too big to die versus everything dies at some point. We would often bring up facebook as a counter point to people who would say everything dies at some point, doesn't matter what it is. Then someone would occasionally say "even facebook would die at some point, it's just how things are" and we'd all gasp like no way, you must be out of your gah damn mind.

And now facebook is dead and zoomers sometimes make fun of me saying shit like they only go on facebook to wish their grandmas happy birthday

 

[shaner82]

Matthews is clearly injured. You can see it every time he shoots the puck. There's no velocity. He's also very hesitant to shoot. When has AM ever been hesitant to shoot? He knows he can't. I don't know if it's pain or weakness or what, but he has no shot.

Here's the thing though. I don't care. He's always injured come playoff time it seems. He always struggles. His numbers go way down. The more intense the games, the more he struggles. It's been this way hsi entire career. Yes, analytics are usually good in the playoffs and he does a lot of little things, but he gets paid to produce, and he doesn't do that.

Guys who are injury prone have a short shelf life. Trade him before he falls off completely.