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Would you trade Bouchard?

Would you trade Bouchard?

  • yes

    Votes: 37 22.8%

  • no

    Votes: 121 74.7%

  • other

    Votes: 4 2.5%
  • Total voters
    162
McDNicks17 said:
Defensive zone play without the puck matters very little nowadays.

The main focus of NHL teams now is keeping the puck out of your own zone and Bouchard is one of the best defensemen in the league at it.

Blue line defense and an outlet pass are vastly better defensive tools than the extinct defensive defenseman's blocking shots, clearing the crease, breaking cycles, etc.
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You’re not wrong but give me Scott Stevens over any d-man in the league today and you’ll see one of the best players in the league.
 
McDNicks17 said:
Defensive zone play without the puck matters very little nowadays.

The main focus of NHL teams now is keeping the puck out of your own zone and Bouchard is one of the best defensemen in the league at it.

Blue line defense and an outlet pass are vastly better defensive tools than the extinct defensive defenseman's blocking shots, clearing the crease, breaking cycles, etc.
Click to expand...

If that were the case why does the opposition still get 25-30 shots on net a game? Denying entry does little to prevent actual goals, and in most cases, forcing the play at the line and getting beat means an odd man situation closer to the goal.

This also tends to backs up my supposition about the Oilers playing "plus-minus" hockey when as long as the pluses are good, the minuses don't matter as much.
 
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russ99 said:
If that were the case why does the opposition still get 25-30 shots on net a game? Denying entry does little to prevent actual goals, and in most cases, forcing the play at the line and getting beat means an odd man situation closer to the goal.
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...The Oilers at 26.5 SA/G are 4th best in the NHL. You have a major perspective problem.
 
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guymez said:
What a ridiculous post.

If you really think that its a flat out lie (that I am essentially driving the bus on pointing out Nurses deficiencies) then the only conclusion I can come to here is that you are just trolling.

Now you need to understand something though...I dont post about Nurse's bad moments and bad games because I hate the player. I post about it because its an issue due the cap space his contract eats up.
I actually want him to provide value for his contract. I want him to succeed.

So when Nurse is playing well I post about him playing well. He has been playing well (for the most part) this season. So maybe thats why you arent seeing nearly as many negative posts from me about Nurse.
Make sense?
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The ego on you :laugh: "driving the bus" my man I'm not even convinced you know where the bus IS. The only thing you've said seemingly this season is "Nurse is overpaid for what he brings" which shows you've watched a hockey game in the last five years. You say more and worse about Bouchard on a day to day basis.

you harp on Bouchard... why exactly? Or is "i don't hate the player and want him to succeed" limited to guys with bloated contracts they haven't lived up to? Because for 3.9 million, Bouchard is one of the best contracts in the NHL.

I'll also point out that for all of Bouchard's supposed defensive struggles, he's been on for 7 5v5 goals against this month. Nurse has been on for 13, almost double that. Nurse also has the worst fancies of any regular Oiler D in January... so work that into your mix, too.
 
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Messrules11 said:
You’re not wrong but give me Scott Stevens over any d-man in the league today and you’ll see one of the best players in the league.
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Stevens would probably play about fives games all season in between suspensions in today's game haha.
russ99 said:
If that were the case why does the opposition still get 25-30 shots on net a game? Denying entry does little to prevent actual goals, and in most cases, forcing the play at the line and getting beat means an odd man situation closer to the goal.
Click to expand...
You've got it so backwards that I don't really know where to begin. Denying entries doesn't create odd man rushes. It's designed to break them up. The best defensive teams are slowing teams down through the neutral zone and forcing them to muck their way in and take lower danger in-zone chances. It's the reason why the Oilers allow so few chances. Back pressure and blue line D.
 
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McDNicks17 said:
Stevens would probably play about fives games all season in between suspensions in today's game haha.

You've got it so backwards that I don't really know where to begin. Denying entries doesn't create odd man rushes. It's designed to break them up. The best defensive teams are slowing teams down through the neutral zone and forcing them to muck their way in and take lower danger in-zone chances. It's the reason why the Oilers allow so few chances. Back pressure and blue line D.
Click to expand...

Ya, you’re probably right again. Damn I miss watching that guy play.
 
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ChaoticOrange said:
The ego on you :laugh: "driving the bus" my man I'm not even convinced you know where the bus IS. The only thing you've said seemingly this season is "Nurse is overpaid for what he brings" which shows you've watched a hockey game in the last five years. You say more and worse about Bouchard on a day to day basis.

you harp on Bouchard... why exactly? Or is "i don't hate the player and want him to succeed" limited to guys with bloated contracts they haven't lived up to? Because for 3.9 million, Bouchard is one of the best contracts in the NHL.

I'll also point out that for all of Bouchard's supposed defensive struggles, he's been on for 7 5v5 goals against this month. Nurse has been on for 13, almost double that. Nurse also has the worst fancies of any regular Oiler D in January... so work that into your mix, too.
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There are clearly a lot of things you dont get. You are misrepresenting my position time and time again.
Once you sort that out (maybe improve your reading comprehension) then maybe we can have a conversation.
Right now though you are clearly just spouting nonsense and looking for a little drama.
 
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guymez said:
There are clearly a lot of things you dont get.
Once you sort that out (and actually improve your reading comprehension) then maybe I will respond.
Right now though you are clearly just spouting nonsense and looking for drama.

Im out...you can go try to find another dance partner for your drama dance.
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I asked pretty specific questions. You are either unwilling or unable to answer them. You say you point out deficiencies, but your post history says otherwise.

Be "out" all you like, I think this conversation has reached its obvious conclusion.
 
McDNicks17 said:
Stevens would probably play about fives games all season in between suspensions in today's game haha.

You've got it so backwards that I don't really know where to begin. Denying entries doesn't create odd man rushes. It's designed to break them up. The best defensive teams are slowing teams down through the neutral zone and forcing them to muck their way in and take lower danger in-zone chances. It's the reason why the Oilers allow so few chances. Back pressure and blue line D.
Click to expand...
You missed one thing, Stevens would miss games in order to take out the best player on the opposing team
 
ChaoticOrange said:
I asked pretty specific questions. You are either unwilling or unable to answer them. You say you point out deficiencies, but your post history says otherwise.

Be "out" all you like, I think this conversation has reached its obvious conclusion.
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You lost all credibility when you essentially called me a Nurse apologist.
So absolutely ridiculous. :laugh:
 
guymez said:
You lost all credibility when you essentially called me a Nurse apologist.
So absolutely ridiculous. :laugh:
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I said you dodged Nurse criticism - because you dodged Nurse criticism when I said that being "confused" about Bouchard making mistakes 300 games in was funny because Nurse makes all kinds of mistakes 700 games in. Including when he was abysmal all of last playoffs. (and the playoffs before, for that matter) I didn't call you a Nurse apologist. Putting words in someone else's mouth is a sure sign of a lost argument.
 
Sorry people, he’s been ass, and he’s been mistake prone his whole career. He’ll never learn defense, and he’s a giveaway machine. Oh and he isn’t scoring or making good plays now either.
 
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ChaoticOrange said:
I said you dodged Nurse criticism - because you dodged Nurse criticism when I said that being "confused" about Bouchard making mistakes 300 games in was funny because Nurse makes all kinds of mistakes 700 games in. Including when he was abysmal all of last playoffs. (and the playoffs before, for that matter) I didn't call you a Nurse apologist. Putting words in someone else's mouth is a sure sign of a lost argument.
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You essentially accused me of overlooking Nurses deficiencies last season especially in the playoffs.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That accusation is so ridiculous its laughable.

Then I toungue and cheek suggest that I was driving the bus on holding Nurse to account and you decide that is a perfect time to deflect from the reality of what I am suggesting (that I have never purposely overlooked anything Nurse has done badly) and accuse me of being an egotist.

So you clearly arent looking for a conversation...you are looking for a drama dance partner.

You appear to be a little too wound up...maybe we can pause this conversation and revisit after you step away for a while.
 
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Messrules11 said:
Not true, Kariya, Lindros, all legit open ice bonecrushers. Get near Brodeur and watch out.
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Those hits were legal in the 90s. They aren't now.

Scott Stevens has such an interesting career curve. I wish I'd been able to see him play the first half his career. Over the course of more than 900 games to start his career he was one of the best offensive d-men in the league (6th overall for defensive scoring over his first 12 seasons). And then basically overnight the offense completely evaporated but he still went on to have a hall of fame back half of his career as the most feared defensive d-man in the league.
 
Probably the best time to sign him long term. Games in January don’t matter and he’s shown he brings it in playoffs.
 
Messrules11 said:
You’re not wrong but give me Scott Stevens over any d-man in the league today and you’ll see one of the best players in the league.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying as a massive Steven's lover but no you wouldn't.
His hits were highly predatory and would be considered charges or unsportsmanlike. Half his hits would also be high head shots.

Lindstrom style with positioning and stick work would be much more valuable today

If you don't think so, go watch Trouba. His open ice hits didn't translate to better defense the last few years
 
Stevens wouldn't manage anywhere near as many thundering hits in todays NHL because today's forwards are way, way better about not putting themselves into positions where that can happen to them.

Then the odd time he did manage to land one he would be suspended for 30 games.
 
Dieseloil said:
He get’s all the best assignments, Drai being in beast mode sure pads Bouchard’s stats. Since you’re a stat person, how many boneheaded giveaways, lazy back checks and missed nets in the last 31 games?
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I couldn't really care less about those things when he's significantly outchancing and outscoring the other team.

He could spend half his shifts taking shots at his own net if he keeps outscoring opponents for all I care haha.
 
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