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Would you be fine with a World Cup Instead?

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IceDogsandLeafs said:
I was 7.
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I ask because in terms of intensity and national focus, the '87 Canada Cup had every bit and more of what today's game had.

People like the NeelyWasaWarrior guy have little to no recollection about how intense the battles and how entertaining the Canada Cups were. Canada Cup '87 mesmerized a nation of fans, closer to what the 2010 Olympics did than today's snorefest.

That said, when it became World Cup it lost a little bit of flair.

I would be really interested to find out if they could get it back.
 
Vexxed14 said:
International competition is dictated by FIFA who runs the Continental Federations which controls the countries Football Associations which controls the leagues.

The leagues fight tooth and nail to reduce the # of international games every year.

Its just so different to hockey where the leagues aren't beholden to the IIHF.

The biggest problem in hockey though is the rift between the NHL and IIHF. A lot of focus should be put on fixing that without all the 'he-said, she-said' finger pointing
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Yes, the biggest problem in hockey is indeed that unlike in football, a single league has far too much say on international issues. Undoubtly football too would have as similar problems getting the international schedule to work if for example the Premier League was as dominating as NHL.
 
There should be no debate whether or not NHLers belong at the Olympics. The Olympics are meant for the best athletes in the world to compete and represent their country. If we don't send the best athletes over there then it takes away from the true purpose of the Olympic games.
 
The elephant in the room here is that North American leagues simply play too many games during their season to allow for international tournaments. It's true in baseball, basketball and hockey. Unfortunately, this means that television deals and long-term financing for stadia are built around those parameters.

Ideally there would be a hockey world cup and a competitive tournament at the Olympics. Maybe treat the Olympics the same as FIFA does (basically a U23 tournament). But with 82 regular season games and a marathon playoffs there is barely room for the Olympics.

The Olympic format has some inherent problems that a WC would solve.

First, the group stage is more or less meaningless at the Olympics. I get it - teams have not had enough training time to merit knocking teams out during group play. A WC during the summer would solve this problem and the group stage games would therefore be more compelling.

Second, during the Olympics hockey is competing for attention with other events that people like to watch only during the Olympics (the downhill in alpine, for example)

Finally, you have the issue of control of venue, revenue and injury risk which is obviously of interest to the leagues and the IIHF.

But all of these benefits will be difficult to realize with the length/schedule density of the NHL season remaining unchanged.
 
World Cup is a much better tournament/format(allows teams to have a training camp) BUT hockey will get more coverage in the Olympics and that is the main goal for the NHL.

The only reason they might got he World Cup format is because the NHLPA can profit off of it.
 
I will not be watching a second of Olympic hockey in 2018 if NHLers aren't released to play.
 
Vexxed14 said:
No I'm serious. You cannot compete in professional events and also compete in amateur events in the same season (there are of course always exceptions). They are different in almost every sport, Summer or Winter games. That doesn't stop a guy from going pro for a few seasons and then going back to amateur for Olympic qualifying. Team sport athletes are under contract which makes that even harder.
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At least in cross-country skiing, alpine skiing, biathlon, ski jumping and nordic combined it doesn´t work like that. The top athletes are professionals who live on prize money, endorsements and public funding.
 
There's quite literally zero argument over World Cup being more important or meaningful than Olympics. If you want to reduce the amount of international play, arguing over cancelling world championship tourneys and sticking to Olympics only, has some merits, but this? None whatsoever.

And no, I wouldn't be in favor of dropping WC either, simply because if there's no play, the countries outside the top 6-7 will never improve. The sport needs them to do just that.
 
Vexxed14 said:
I think its fundamentally wrong that pros attend. Same applies to NBA players in the summer imo
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so then you have to take out every player that plays in a Pro Euro League, the AHL, ECHL etc. Anyone who gets paid to play hockey. Even some of the U20 juniors play in pro leagues, gotta ban all them.

Basically turn it into an under 18 where you ban people like Mikael Granlund and Sasha Barkov who were playing in the SM Liiga before they turned 18.

Any sport that has a World Cup circuit pays the players something. Tennis in the Summer games pays people, and now Golf is in the Olympics.
 
boredmale said:
World Cup is a much better tournament/format(allows teams to have a training camp) BUT hockey will get more coverage in the Olympics and that is the main goal for the NHL.

The only reason they might got he World Cup format is because the NHLPA can profit off of it.
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This Olympics saw no vast difference in Hockey viewer ship.
 
Vexxed14 said:
No I'm serious. You cannot compete in professional events and also compete in amateur events in the same season (there are of course always exceptions). They are different in almost every sport, Summer or Winter games. That doesn't stop a guy from going pro for a few seasons and then going back to amateur for Olympic qualifying. Team sport athletes are under contract which makes that even harder.
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Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I could try to argue with you, but it doesn't seem like it would make any difference.

Noutaja said:
At least in cross-country skiing, alpine skiing, biathlon, ski jumping and nordic combined it doesn´t work like that. The top athletes are professionals who live on prize money, endorsements and public funding.
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That's how it works for every single Olympic sport with the exception of boxing, which is the only one that remains fully amateur.
 
NeelyWasAWarrior said:
World Cup of Hockey= commercialized, copy cat, money grab fest by the NHL as they don't make money off the Olympics.


Olympics= Pride in playing for your country.



It's refreshing to hear NHL players wanting to play for their country. They bargained for Olympic participation. I hope they fight this. My feeling is the NHL will sell them on the extra money they might make off the World Cup so that they go along with it.
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Did you hear what Erik Karlsson wants to do with his medal since it wasn't Gold? Seems the Olympic heritage meant nothing to him.

In the World Cup format they play for their country there too.
 
Blue'sClues said:
Did you hear what Erik Karlsson wants to do with his medal since it wasn't Gold? Seems the Olympic heritage meant nothing to him.

In the World Cup format they play for their country there too.
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You do realise that he was being facetious with that comment, right?
 
fly4apuckguy said:
I ask because in terms of intensity and national focus, the '87 Canada Cup had every bit and more of what today's game had.

People like the NeelyWasaWarrior guy have little to no recollection about how intense the battles and how entertaining the Canada Cups were. Canada Cup '87 mesmerized a nation of fans, closer to what the 2010 Olympics did than today's snorefest.

That said, when it became World Cup it lost a little bit of flair.

I would be really interested to find out if they could get it back.
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It was because of the Cold War. Western vs Eastern ways of life combined with
no Russians playing in the NHL. When the World Cup was introduced life was
different and we did not see the best players any more. Players were pulling
out of the tournament, no more of cold war hatred.
 
Here is a World Cup Format

8 teams only Canada, USA, Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Russia, Switzerland

play 3 rounds a best of 3 series, no group play. Randomize who plays who every year. Play all 3 games in one country to cut down travel. To decide who gets it just flip a coin like Am Football. Or international ranking like Davis Cup. The max number of games you will play is 9 and only in 3 countries. This way you ALWAYS have a hosting nation playing. No Russia-Sweden Final played in Toronto.
 
Nope. The Olympics have history and clout that absolutely cannot be recreated. Especially in America. Hockey is a mainstream sport here for 2 weeks every 4 years. Replace the Olympics with the World Cup and it'll be a mainstream sport 0 weeks every year.
 
WC is a far cry from Olympics. Would Russian players pay fines and anger their employers to play in WC? Ofcourse not. Olympics, yup.
 
If you ask me they should have both. The World Cup could be held every four years, with the cycle being the same as the Summer Olympics. The NHL would still shut down every four years for the Winter Olympics and the World Cup could be held before training camp.

My only caveat to this is the NHL be required to release all available eligible players for the World Juniors. In return, the IIHF agrees to force the National Hockey Federations to participate in the World Cup. However, the World Cup would be a NHL/NHLPA controlled event with the IIHF only coordinating the qualifying tournaments. As the World Cup needs to be the same tournament format as the Olympics except for a Best of 3 Finals like the Canada Cup was.

On the off chance North America hosts another Winter Olympics with the tournament on a NHL sized rink, I think the next World Cup would have to be played on International sized ice to keep things fair. Only issue with this I guess is the lack of many arenas with international sized ice in North America. I'm not sure if the E Center (or whatever the name of the Salt Lake City games rink is called) retained the big ice or not. But I believe only Winsport in Calgary and the U of Wisconsin have big ice in North America. So it would likely mean the tournament would have to be held mostly in Europe/Asia.
 
Shootmaster_44 said:
My only caveat to this is the NHL be required to release all available eligible players for the World Juniors.
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I don't like this. Obviously the NHL won't stop for the World Junior so teams would just be missing their players. I would pissed if Pittsburgh was missing Maatta this season.
 
Vexxed14 said:
I 100% disagree with you. The terms pro athlete and amateur athlete are specific and not just some made up definition you come up with.

Amateurs can make money doing what they do by winning in competitions and endorsements and being paid to appear for motivational speaches etc...

The athletes you mentioned are not paid to compete in their sport until they retire from amateur and turn pro
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OK ,so no ,KHL,AHL,ECHL and the other Euro leagues, is that what you want?

You would run out of players for many countries.

You can keep your high minded ideals.

I only get to this event every 4 years I WANT the best on best no matter how technical you want to split how they survive in this world.

You can stuff your amateurs only.

For the record, by your standards there is already one and it's called the WJC and how many counties actually care about it?
 
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