World Cup: Team French Canada instead of Team Young Guns??

[93LEAFS]

Huberdeau - Toews - Giroux
Brassard - Bergeron - Tanguay
Vermette - Ribeiro - Pominville
Pouliot - Couturier - Perreault
Drouin - Burrows

Vlasic - Letang
Methot - Despres
Scandella - Beauchemin
Savard - Demers

Fleury
Luongo
Crawford

Have a feeling he'd stick with Anglo-Canada considering he is just as much anglo-Canadian as French-Canadian and was raised in an english speaking province, but shift Giroux to center and bump up Drouin and its still a good team. Also Pominville is an American player internationally.

Have a feeling some of the players would want nothing to do with this. It would put someone like Toew's in a position where he would have to choose which could hurt his marketability (think of the ads he gets around the olympics) and his choice being used for political promotion. Best way to do it would be QMJHL vs OHL vs WHL, with the rule being NCAA guys would play for the region they would of been drafted in (so Toews and Keith to the WHL), but all the otherplay for the league they played in not region they are from (basically so the QMJHL gets Giroux and not the OHL).

 

[KingTux]

He does and says a lot of stupid things.

In an hopeless attempt to get some French Canadians to vote for him sigh ...

As for the op, I think an Eastern team (Ontario, Quebec and all the eastern provinces) vs the rest would do just fine. No need to bring some old anglo vs franco war.

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

Huberdeau - Giroux - St. Louis
Brassard - Bergeron - Drouin
Ribiero - Vermette - Perron
Desharnais - Couturier - Dupuis
Tanguay

Vlasic - Letang
Demers - Scandella
Methot - Despres
Savard

Fleury
Luongo


Meh, it's not bad but not world class.

 

[Bouboumaster]

This is a bad idea on so many levels

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

This is a bad idea on so many levels

yup

 

[BBB24]

It's not based on ancestry, just language.

Lets do it and then do one with just Anglos from Canada, bet that would go over well

 

[Laveuglette]

The Pan American games are gimmicky and largely irrelevant - I hae higher hopes for hockey at the highest level. Also, and I know this is going to devolve very quickly, Quebec is very clearly a province of Canada and not a nation.

Ask people in Quebec whether or not they are a nation, in a representative survey, and find out the answer. Ask them if they feel more "Quebecer" or "Canadian", and find out the answer.

For those who are interested, Bob Sirois (ex-Flyers, Capitals player) founded a foundation for Quebec to have it's own international teams in competitions.

http://www.feqc.org/

Bruny Surin, Pascale Pinard and many other athletes are implicated in the project, whatever some anglo-canadian posters will say, this project is real and some major athletes are pushing for it.

Edit : Also, IIRC, Mario Lemieux refused to play for team Canada at the beginning of his career in world championships because he was a sovereignist. He later accepted because it was the only way he could play in the olympics. This idea of Quebec having it's own team is far from being new. Maurice Richard was also a nationalist who fought for Quebec/French rights in hockey.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Ask people in Quebec whether or not they are a nation, in a representative survey, and find out the answer. Ask them if they feel more "Quebecer" or "Canadian", and find out the answer.

For those who are interested, Bob Sirois (ex-Flyers, Capitals player) founded a foundation for Quebec to have it's own international teams in competitions.

http://www.feqc.org/

Bruny Surin, Pascale Pinard and many other athletes are implicated in the project, whatever some anglo-canadian posters will say, this project is real and some major athletes are pushing for it.

Edit : Also, IIRC, Mario Lemieux refused to play for team Canada at the beginning of his career in world championships because he was a sovereignist. He later accepted because it was the only way he could play in the olympics. This idea of Quebec having it's own team is far from being new. Maurice Richard was also a nationalist who fought for Quebec/French rights in hockey.

His 'sovereignist' views didn't hinder him for participating in the 1983 World Junior Championship.... the following year he kicked up a bit of a stink claiming he didn't like the coach and therefore wouldn't play in 1984. And he played at the 1985 World Hockey Championship.... for somebody early in his career refusing to play for Team Canada for 'political reasons', he seemed to accept the invite more often than not... in fact more often than federalists. I admire Lemieux's commitment to the cause.

 

[EbencoyE]

Nobody cares that there are french people in Canada. Either vote to separate Quebec from Canada or shut the hell up.

Obviously the all-star teams are terrible ideas too, but this doesn't fix anything.

Use real countries that actually exist, have their own governments and money and everything, or don't play this stupid tournament at all.

 

[Pominville Knows]

He does and says a lot of stupid things.

He may or may not say other stupid things, but this is not one of them. I would bet that they fit the criteria of one definition of "nation", a nation within the state of Canada. Like native canadians there as well really.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I can't stand the plan for a team young guns. Since the next World Cup seems destined to be a gimmick tournament I would way rather see two Canadian teams, Anglo and French, than what the NHL has proposed. I know lots of people would be worried about the political implications, but from a fun perspective I think it could be cool and I know it would be a massive hit amongst French Canadians.

A big problem is getting players to represent Quebec over Canada. When this was brought up for the Olympics a while back, a number of French players flat out refused to play for any other team than Canada. If memory serves, Letang was among them. I also doubt Giroux would, seeing he wasn't born in Quebec.

 

[cutchemist42]

Didnt the IIHF a few years back sanction a Quebec team to exist for a temporary tournament they were going to do involving France/Switzerland? Anyone remember that?

I guess whats the difference between other examples like Team GB for most events while FIFA allows Scotland/Wales etc. Or PR having multiple teams as well?

 

[Peasoup]

There is little more factual than the Québécois being a nation.

This is how they mostly see and define themselves, be they sovereignists or federalists.

A big problem is getting players to represent Quebec over Canada. When this was brought up for the Olympics a while back, a number of French players flat out refused to play for any other team than Canada. If memory serves, Letang was among them. I also doubt Giroux would, seeing he wasn't born in Quebec.

I do not remember Letang doing so but Lecavalier and Brodeur certainly did. What would anyone expect? There is currently no team Quebec and they are players being considered for the Olympics by Team Canada. It would hurt their chances greatly if they insinuated they would rather play for a Team Quebec.

Now if a Team Quebec had existed for a while, I'm fairly sure they would mostly all be on board.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

I'm not sure Hockey Canada, the NHL etc. want to play with that political timebomb.

You want two Canadian teams take the best 40 Canadians and throw sticks like in shinny (if you don't know what I mean you pile them at centre ice and whichever end your stick is thrown to is your team). Put them in piles and throw the C, RW, LW, D and G that way you ensure everyone has an even number of those players and it is purely random. You could call them Canada Red and Canada White. That way there is no A team and B team.

What gets me about the Young Guns is that it has no nationalistic feel to it. It is Canada and the USA thrown together. At least Team "Rest of Europe" will I think be made up of EU Countries, so they have a nationalistic or pan-Continental feel to it. Beyond NAFTA and some other trade deals, North America lacks any sort of pan-Continental, nationalistic feel to it. They might as well call it Team IIHF, like the team Hockey Canada had cobbled together for the Women's U-18 Summer Showcase tournament last week.

I honestly, am not sure what is wrong with the old Canada Cup/World Cup format? It wasn't broke, in that having those teams involved made the tournament less of a tournament. Ideally instead of Team Young Guns and Team "Rest of Europe" they should've let the IIHF organize some qualifying tournament and have the top two teams make it. If that means Belarus and Slovenia are in great and so on. MLB did this for the World Baseball Classic and it worked out to a good thing. It saw South Africa, which had been in the previous two, miss qualifying and another more deserving nation get in.

To tweak this for hockey, you don't have any of the established group of 7 qualify. However, I'd say take the teams that do not qualify for the playoff round (providing it doesn't simply resemble shuffling the qualifiers like at IIHF tournaments) for this tournament and make them run through the qualifiers. This is what the WBC did and Canada had to qualify to make the main tournament. Of course Canada manhandled their qualifying pool and it was never in question. But Canada had to use a different team to qualify, since it ran during the MLB season. So there wasn't a guarantee that Canada would crush their opponents.

Same if say Slovakia needed to qualify, if the qualifiers were run after the Worlds, it would mean not all the top Slovaks would be available. Thus they would field a different team than the World Cup team. By doing this, it creates some urgency for teams to qualify. I'm certain that nationalistic pride is on the line anytime a player puts on his national team's jersey. So if Slovakia failed to qualify and lost out to say Kazakhstan, it would mean the Slovaks would be more determined to qualify the next time around. It would make the European fans that deride the tournament care more about it. It would be the same thing if Canada was relegated from the Worlds, Canadian fans might sit up and take notice, if we had to win Division I.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

Didnt the IIHF a few years back sanction a Quebec team to exist for a temporary tournament they were going to do involving France/Switzerland? Anyone remember that?

I guess whats the difference between other examples like Team GB for most events while FIFA allows Scotland/Wales etc. Or PR having multiple teams as well?

I remember there was a Team Quebec that went to some tournament, but if I remember right there was no IIHF sanctioning. The IIHF seems to have the strictest of all rules as far as members go. I believe Team Ireland is simply the Republic and Northern Ireland has to play for Great Britain.

Of course, in the countries that are sub-national, who participate in international sports, none are great at hockey. Thus, there is no groundswell of breaking up Team Great Britain into the home nations, Puerto Rico has a tiny hockey program, if at all and other dependencies around the world do not play hockey in enough form to be highly competitive.

The only sub-national state that plays much hockey beyond the UK home nations, is St-Pierre et Miquelon. However, their population is so small, that while a few people have played for France, they couldn't sustain a team on their own. But the IIHF would never allow St-Pierre et Miquelon to compete on their own. I don't even believe they do for La Francophonie Games.

 

[jekoh]

I remember there was a Team Quebec that went to some tournament, but if I remember right there was no IIHF sanctioning. The IIHF seems to have the strictest of all rules as far as members go. I believe Team Ireland is simply the Republic and Northern Ireland has to play for Great Britain.

I don't see what's strict about having parts of the UK represent the UK national team.

Of course, in the countries that are sub-national, who participate in international sports, none are great at hockey. Thus, there is no groundswell of breaking up Team Great Britain into the home nations,

England/Scotland/Wales national teams do not participate in international sports, they participate in international football and rugby and that's it.

 

[jekoh]

A big problem is getting players to represent Quebec over Canada. When this was brought up for the Olympics a while back, a number of French players flat out refused to play for any other team than Canada.

It's not like they had a choice.

I guess whats the difference between other examples like Team GB for most events while FIFA allows Scotland/Wales etc.

The difference is the Scotland/Wales/England football associations already existed when FIFA was formed. FIFA didn't allow an existing GB team to be broken into pieces.

 

[Shootmaster_44]

I don't see what's strict about having parts of the UK represent the UK national team.

Most international sporting organizations put the Northern Irish either as its own team or with Ireland. They then typically use a unique flag and song an anthem. The IIHF for some reason forces the Northern Irish into the UK.

England/Scotland/Wales national teams do not participate in international sports, they participate in international football and rugby and that's it.

They do at the Commonwealth Games and also in international cricket.

 

[jekoh]

Most international sporting organizations put the Northern Irish either as its own team or with Ireland.

That's not very true at all, there a lots of sports where NI is part of GBR.

They then typically use a unique flag and song an anthem. The IIHF for some reason forces the Northern Irish into the UK.

NI is part of the UK, not of the Republic of Ireland, so the reason why is pretty obvious. Also it's not true that the IIHF forces the Northern Irish into the UK: the Northern Irish can play for the Republic of Ireland if they have played two seasons in that country.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

England/Scotland/Wales national teams do not participate in international sports, they participate in international football and rugby and that's it.

That's not true.

NI is part of the UK, not of the Republic of Ireland, so the reason why is pretty obvious. Also it's not true that the IIHF forces the Northern Irish into the UK: the Northern Irish can play for the Republic of Ireland if they have played two seasons in that country.

Actually Ireland doesn't compete at all anymore since they lost their only arena and are thus no longer eligible to ice a national team under IIHF rules. Also I'm not sure if the two season rule applies since people born in NI are entitled to both UK and Rep of Ireland citizenships at birth.

I avoided using the term Quebec in my proposal, but a Quebec team allowing franco-Ontarians to play would not be dissimilar to an Irish team allowing NI Catholics to play for them.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

A big problem is getting players to represent Quebec over Canada. When this was brought up for the Olympics a while back, a number of French players flat out refused to play for any other team than Canada. If memory serves, Letang was among them. I also doubt Giroux would, seeing he wasn't born in Quebec.

That's one reason I didn't make it a Quebec or Canada scenario. I proposed two Canadian teams, one English, the other French.

 

[FF de Mars]

He may or may not say other stupid things, but this is not one of them. I would bet that they fit the criteria of one definition of "nation", a nation within the state of Canada. Like native canadians there as well really.

Not really, more like Finland to Sweden or Russia.

 

[Mynameismark*]

My dad is french and my mom is english. I was born in Montreal. I still live in Montreal. Im as Canadian as anyone else from anywhere else in this country. I would be rooting for Canada....the entirety of Canada..which includes Quebec thank you very much.

 

[JETZZZ]

What about teams based on race or religion too? Sounds like the kind of new fun thing the NHL could try too.

 

[New User Name]

My dad is french and my mom is english. I was born in Montreal. I still live in Montreal. Im as Canadian as anyone else from anywhere else in this country. I would be rooting for Canada....the entirety of Canada..which includes Quebec thank you very much.

this should be the final post