World cup is better than Olympics

[Gary Nylund]

Dean Lombardi seems to hate Kessel, but either way he was injured anyway. Poor player selection is one thing, but it still doesn't excuse that we aren't 10 lines deep like Canada and can afford to lose a point per game player from our team let alone more. Even without this awful roster selection, there isn't that much out there to that would vault us up to contender with the U24s gone.

Yes I agree. At this point in time, I think Canada would still be a big favourite over the US even if the teams were picked perfectly but that's easy to say and if it's not proven on the ice, it's just words. I also understand that's no consolation to US fans who are deprived of seeing their best team represent them.

I really think the gimmick teams are a one time thing. Hopefully I'm right and we won't have to go through all this speculation again 4 years from now. Or, maybe the NHL participates in the Olympics and 4 years from now we have a NA vs Europe series instead of a tournament, that might even be better (though I know some people hate the idea).

 

[Xokkeu]

Yes I agree. At this point in time, I think Canada would still be a big favourite over the US even if the teams were picked perfectly but that's easy to say and if it's not proven on the ice, it's just words. I also understand that's no consolation to US fans who are deprived of seeing their best team represent them.

I really think the gimmick teams are a one time thing. Hopefully I'm right and we won't have to go through all this speculation again 4 years from now. Or, maybe the NHL participates in the Olympics and 4 years from now we have a NA vs Europe series instead of a tournament, that might even be better (though I know some people hate the idea).

I'm leaning that team Europe will be back, or something like it. If the US bombs out I just don't know how they do another team North America. It would be pretty hard to market the tournament in the States. "Hey USA Hockey fans, want to see your BEST PLAYERS... play for a different team! YEAH"

I'd rather see a US-Canada summit series than NA v Europe. NA wouldn't excite me at all. I get up for beating Canada, and to a lesser extent the Russians. Being teamed up with the Canadians would just be weird. I'd watch it, but the passion wouldn't be there.

If I ran the world we'd have a World Cup/Championship every two years. During the World Cup years all the minnows of hockey would play a tiered tournament. I'm talking about the god awful teams like 20-45. You could tier it to a knock out tournament, assuming every single IIHF member entered, which they probably wouldn't. You let the IIHF host qualifying tournaments for the World Cup that would essentially replace the D2 and D3 tournaments. Allowing teams the theoretical possibility to move up.

The year before the World Cup you host the qualifying round. These are the Slovakia, Kazakhstan, Belarus type teams.

One team from that group qualifies to the 8 team World Cup.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm leaning that team Europe will be back, or something like it. If the US bombs out I just don't know how they do another team North America. It would be pretty hard to market the tournament in the States. "Hey USA Hockey fans, want to see your BEST PLAYERS... play for a different team! YEAH"

I'd rather see a US-Canada summit series than NA v Europe. NA wouldn't excite me at all. I get up for beating Canada, and to a lesser extent the Russians. Being teamed up with the Canadians would just be weird. I'd watch it, but the passion wouldn't be there.

If I ran the world we'd have a World Cup/Championship every two years. During the World Cup years all the minnows of hockey would play a tiered tournament. I'm talking about the god awful teams like 20-45. You could tier it to a knock out tournament, assuming every single IIHF member entered, which they probably wouldn't. You let the IIHF host qualifying tournaments for the World Cup that would essentially replace the D2 and D3 tournaments. Allowing teams the theoretical possibility to move up.

The year before the World Cup you host the qualifying round. These are the Slovakia, Kazakhstan, Belarus type teams.

One team from that group qualifies to the 8 team World Cup.

Yeah I can see an argument for Team Europe being back but not for team NA. I mean I could see an argument some might make for team NA but I think it would be a really bad idea.

I don't think we'll see a Canada vs USA series, it might be fun though if only to see how angry some of the Euros ITT get who are already complaining about the NHL ignoring them because they won't schedule the games around their time zones or similar nonsense.

As for the rest of it, you running the world is probably the only way this will ever happen. Would be interesting though so good luck I guess.

 

[Xokkeu]

Yeah I can see an argument for Team Europe being back but not for team NA. I mean I could see an argument some might make for team NA but I think it would be a really bad idea.

I don't think we'll see a Canada vs USA series, it might be fun though if only to see how angry some of the Euros ITT get who are already complaining about the NHL ignoring them because they won't schedule the games around their time zones or similar nonsense.

As for the rest of it, you running the world is probably the only way this will ever happen. Would be interesting though so good luck I guess.

Oh it's not happening, my best case scenario is the NHL decides to keep the World Cup, under a standard format and also goes to the Olympics.

 

[zeke]

Dean Lombardi seems to hate Kessel, but either way he was injured anyway. Poor player selection is one thing, but it still doesn't excuse that we aren't 10 lines deep like Canada and can afford to lose a point per game player from our team let alone more. Even without this awful roster selection, there isn't that much out there to that would vault us up to contender with the U24s gone.

nonsense. USA could easily ice 4 1st lines without any U24s.

2yr ppg

Wheeler .86 - Pavelski .90 - Kane 1.16
Parise .80 - Stepan .77 - Kessel .73
Pacioretty .81 - Johnson .75 - Okposo .81
VanRiemsdyk .70 - Stastny .69 - Oshie .70
Foligno .73 - Dubinsky .69 - Ryan .69
Backes .65 - Kesler .63 - Palmieri .62

Best U24s

Gaudreau .89 - Eichel .69 - Saad 0.66
Larkin .56 - Trochek .60 - Galchenyuk .63



Canada

Benn 1.07 - Crosby 1.08 - Seguin 1.05
Thornton .92 - Tavares .98 - Giroux .88
Stamkos .86 - Getzlaf .86 - Perry .79
Spezza .80 - Johansen .81 - Carter .78
Couture .77 - Toews .77 - Bergeron .76
Hall .76 - O'Reilly .75 - Stone .81

Best U24s

Monahan .77 - McDavid 1.07 - Huberdeau .73
Mackinnon .66 - RNH .69 - scheifele .72

 

[Xokkeu]

nonsense. USA could easily ice 4 1st lines without any U24s.

2yr ppg

Wheeler .86 - Pavelski .90 - Kane 1.16
Parise .80 - Stepan .77 - Kessel .73
Pacioretty .81 - Johnson .75 - Okposo .81
VanRiemsdyk .70 - Stastny .69 - Oshie .70
Foligno .73 - Dubinsky .69 - Ryan .69
Backes .65 - Kesler .63 - Palmieri .62

Best U24s

Gaudreau .89 - Eichel .69 - Saad 0.66
Larkin .56 - Trochek .60 - Galchenyuk .63



Canada

Benn 1.07 - Crosby 1.08 - Seguin 1.05
Thornton .92 - Tavares .98 - Giroux .88
Stamkos .86 - Getzlaf .86 - Perry .79
Spezza .80 - Johansen .81 - Carter .78
Couture .77 - Toews .77 - Bergeron .76
Hall .76 - O'Reilly .75 - Stone .81

Best U24s

Monahan .77 - McDavid 1.07 - Huberdeau .73
Mackinnon .66 - RNH .69 - scheifele .72

You got me! Dubinsky is obviously the superior player to Gaudreau

 

[Albi34]

The only thing i would change, is allowing Can/USA to choose under 24 players for their roster. it would be a bit of a hit to the U24 team but it makes it fair for the national teams

 

[BruinLVGA]

Well if it's boring nobody will watch. At least I assume people don't watch things that bore them but I'm not a market psychologist. But if we accept that premise that people don't watch things that bore them it would appear that the Sochi Olympics weren't boring. Since multiple millions of people tuned in to watch them.

Re "Boring -> no one will watch": if one considers that the global audience for the IIHF World Championship, a tournament considered by many to be B level, reached 1.1 BILLION in 2015 (don't know the numbers for 2016. If someone can find them, thank you), I think the Olympics can sleep nice and easy...
However, if the World Cup would keep on pulling 40k audience per game in the USA, I am not sure if it will survive that.

Link re the total audience for the 2015 IIHF WC: http://www.infrontsports.com/news/2...championship-gears-up-for-worldwide-delivery/

 

[gwh]

This is the complete broadcaster list for IIHF WC. Anyone has a source for NHL WC broadcasters?

http://www.infrontsports.com/media/2349628/2016-IIHF-WM-BP-List.pdf

 

[gwh]

40k?

Expecting peak spectators 2.2mil for the sweden game in Finland, or this is tourney is a bust. My mother watches FIN-SWE hockey games.

 

[amitkedia]

Why the World Cup of Hockey Makes Sense.

Sure, maybe the NHL is trying to grow the game from $4B to $5B and the #WCH2016 event is nothing more than a marketing ploy to reel in more fans. But they might have gotten this one right. Think about it. The best players rarely get enough ice time in the September pre-season because the coaching staff wants to evaluate the junior talent, the wannabees, the player-try-outs, and the usual set of re-treads. So the stars get one or two tune-up games that mean absolutely nothing. Not this year. From the first Canada vs. US game, you could tell the players were playing for keeps. Every game, even the preliminary round games, had some excitement and meaning to fans who watched and players who played. Meaningful hockey in September - it’s like a jolt of java first thing in the morning. And the stars will be good to go when the NHL season starts. Okay, some purists may still be jaded by the whole thing. But it will be hard to avoid watching the final series if the star-studded veterans of Canada windup playing the young guns of North America for all the marbles. Or you can try to find a pre-season game somewhere on cable, curl up on the couch, take a long nap, and set your snooze alarm to the first day of the regular season

 

[crowi]

40k?

Expecting peak spectators 2.2mil for the sweden game in Finland, or this is tourney is a bust. My mother watches FIN-SWE hockey games.

Would your mom pay money to watch a game at night?

Personally I don't care at all about this tournament. Gimmicky "all-star" tournament with no prestige.

 

[Sentinel]

Og >>>>wch

 

[Paxton Fettel]

It's really nice to see partially empty arenas at the World Cup in TORONTO. Imagine empty arenas at the soccer World Cup or the at the Olympic hockey tournament...

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I've never seen so many people mad about extra hockey.

 

[therealdeal]

...Well, for the neutral observer, the hockey is much better hockey than Sochi's (at the same stage of the tournament).

All this other conversation seems pointless, because this is the only thing that matters.

I love international hockey, but the Olympics, and now even the World Championships have been bad hockey. It's boring. Until they can fix that, I'll take the World Cup. The World Cup has been awesome so far.

 

[ForumNamePending]

There seems to be some recency bias going on... Ya the most recent Olympic tournament was generally disappointing and pretty forgettable, but the tournaments that preceded Sochi dating back to '98 all ranged from pretty good to great and produced some pretty iconic moments. On the flip side, people seem to be forgetting that the '04 WCup didn't exactly get rave reviews, it would appear that for some reason time has been favourable to how people remember that tournament, but at the time it was considered "meh" at best... Especially when compared to the '02 Olympic tournament held 2 years earlier.

 

[ovikovy817]

Players are @ their best in february in the middle of the season, than in september after 3,4 or even 5 months without hockey.

 

[Don Corleone]

If the rest of the games are anything like the ones so far, and why wouldn't they be, then absolutely. Both have the best players but there are a few key differences what makes the World Cup better.

NHL sized rinks are the way to go. The big ice automatically results in less scoring chances, reduced the amount of rushes and rewards teams that play the trap.

There are zero teams that suck. This is absolutely huge. Watching a top country play Kazakhstan, Hungary or something similar is a bore. It is just unnecessary padding. What is even better is that the NHL had the balls to add in team Europe and NA which has made the tournament much more entertaining. Switch those 2 to Switzerland, Slovakia etc. and the tournament is immediately worse.

I also love that the WC is a short sprint where every game matters. Seriously what does it add to play extra group games? Then you get gems like a group winner playing a bottom country just because they have to. Also the finals are best of 3 which is infinitely better than just one game. Who wouldn't want to see the finalists play more than once? The Olympic finals of 2010 would have been epic if it would have been a best of 3.

Finally, the hockey has so far been just plain better than in the last Olympics, no doubt, and at the end of the day that is by far the most important thing.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

If the NHL would just come out and say, "we are still going to the Olympics, the World Cup is simply a spectacle for the hockey world's entertainment", then nobody would have an issue.

But the NHL and "good PR" don't mix.

 

[Chimpradamus]

I've never seen so many people mad about extra hockey.

You mean as in no olympic hockey and nothing more at all? You call it "extra hockey" to refuse the NHL players to participate in the olympics, because they can't close down the league two weeks every four years? While it's fine to close down the league for a year once every four years because of bickering between the NHL owners and the NHLPA?

If the NHL would just come out and say, "we are still going to the Olympics, the World Cup is simply a spectacle for the hockey world's entertainment", then nobody would have an issue.

But the NHL and "good PR" don't mix.

Exactly. It's like Monsanto giving money to charity and say it's because "we're just good hearted", when everybody knows it's for the IMAGE of being good hearted.

 

[BruinLVGA]

If the NHL would just come out and say, "we are still going to the Olympics, the World Cup is simply a spectacle for the hockey world's entertainment", then nobody would have an issue.

But the NHL and "good PR" don't mix.

Exactly.

Plus it wouldn't be difficult to have both. Hold each tournament every four years but never crossing paths: World Cup 2016, OG 2018, World Cup 2020, OG 2022, etc etc.

You mean as in no olympic hockey and nothing more at all? You call it "extra hockey" to refuse the NHL players to participate in the olympics, because they can't close down the league two weeks every four years? While it's fine to close down the league for a year once every four years because of bickering between the NHL owners and the NHLPA?

Amen. And also the NHL doesn't seem to care about closing down for a few days each year for the All Star Game that is truly something that no one cares for.

 

[Xokkeu]

There seems to be some recency bias going on... Ya the most recent Olympic tournament was generally disappointing and pretty forgettable, but the tournaments that preceded Sochi dating back to '98 all ranged from pretty good to great and produced some pretty iconic moments. On the flip side, people seem to be forgetting that the '04 WCup didn't exactly get rave reviews, it would appear that for some reason time has been favourable to how people remember that tournament, but at the time it was considered "meh" at best... Especially when compared to the '02 Olympic tournament held 2 years earlier.

2004 was like playing a tournament on death row. You know the day it ended the abyss waited.

 

[DoyleG]

2004 was like playing a tournament on death row. You know the day it ended the abyss waited.

Yup.

Canada win the cup.

League shut down the next day.

 

[zeke]

this hockey is so much better than that olympic hockey it's not even really comparable.