World Cup Boycott

[FiLe]

The NHL's tournament has never been run properly. It is always held in Canada, only a handful of countries get to participate and the ones that do are pressured to select players which are the most recognizable to the NHL cattle.

Actually the two earlier iterations of World Cups took the group stage games where the teams' fans are. In 2004, Finland got to play two of its group stage games + the QF in nowhere else but Hartwall Arena. In 1996 Nordis acted as Finland's home rink. Sure, even back then the final games were in NA, but it's actually the first time the whole event is in one place.

Well, technically not player selections (or maybe perhaps they are), but the management section of Team Finland does read like who's who on former Finnish NHL players. I have no idea how it has come to be, and Jere Lehtinen of course does have a viable excuse for his part, but considering that usually there are completely other guys in those roles for Finland in international circles I feel a question or two arising. Someone must have been taking some sort of initiative for that to happen.

If you really wanna stretch it, you could also excuse Koivu and Numminen, given that the former is a FIHA board member now and the latter one of those few Finnish individuals who actually has coaching experience from the NHL. But yeah, Selänne and Timonen's presence obviously puts things over the top. What are their duties behind those fancy titles anyway? Brewing coffee and using the photocopier?

 

[Gaps]

If you really wanna stretch it, you could also excuse Koivu and Numminen, given that the former is a FIHA board member now and the latter one of those few Finnish individuals who actually has coaching experience from the NHL. But yeah, Selänne and Timonen's presence obviously puts things over the top. What are their duties behind those fancy titles anyway? Brewing coffee and using the photocopier?

I'm willing to excuse Teppo for the reasons you stated, but even Saku's presence is unwarranted IMO, not to mention Teemu's and Kime's. The federation might have picked Teppo even with no outside influence, but there's no way even our federation would've independently decided to bring along the other retirees. I'm quite sure they were told to include them by Gary and his buddies because otherwise Team Finland would simply not be interesting enough in the eyes of the only fans who matter. I can't say that I'd be surprised if the NHL was truly revealed to be that unprofessional and unsportsmanlike.

 

[FiLe]

I'm willing to excuse Teppo for the reasons you stated, but even Saku's presence is unwarranted IMO, not to mention Teemu's and Kime's.

Like I said, it's a stretch. But let's keep in mind that Saku is already on the house payroll so adding him for whatever he can bring yields no significant extra costs. Besides, he's very likely being groomed to be the FIHA Chairman one day, so you shouldn't be surprised if he starts attending other events as well so he can network and learn the cabinet game.

 

[Jablkon]

Well, technically not player selections (or maybe perhaps they are), but the management section of Team Finland does read like who's who on former Finnish NHL players. I have no idea how it has come to be, and Jere Lehtinen of course does have a viable excuse for his part, but considering that usually there are completely other guys in those roles for Finland in international circles I feel a question or two arising. Someone must have been taking some sort of initiative for that to happen.

Because to be blatantly honest, I'm not quite so sure Mikko Koivu & co exactly need these people and their experience from tourneys like this to guide them into the finesses of the North American hockey as the official marketing talk has it.

"Lehtinen headlines Finnish World Cup staff
Group also features Numminen, Selanne, Koivu and Timonen"
https://www.nhl.com/news/jere-lehtinen-headlines-finnish-2016-world-cup-staff/c-278617460

I am not sure If I understand to it clear. You think picking members of management was somehow influenced by NHL?

In Czech team, there are also Martin Rucinsky - manager (communication with NHL players), Vinny Prospal (ass. coach) and Jiri Fisher (scouting). I am pretty sure this team was chosen by head coach. I guess NHL would struggle to chose right persons...

 

[Gaps]

I am not sure If I understand to it clear. You think picking members of management was somehow influenced by NHL?

In Czech team, there are also Martin Rucinsky - manager (communication with NHL players), Vinny Prospal (ass. coach) and Jiri Fisher (scouting). I am pretty sure this team was chosen by head coach. I guess NHL would struggle to chose right persons...

I'll try to explain this as clearly as possible, but I apologize if I fail.

Finland isn't only bringing assistant coaches and a GM, but some former Finnish players who are only tagging along for this tournament and have no real position in the team staff. Instead of having a real position (like Jere Lehtinen as the GM), they're called "consultants/advisors". There is no reason to bring along extra consultants because Finnish coaches are excellent in their own right and don't require outside help, especially from retired players with no coaching experience. This is not how we normally build the team management for a national team tournament, which is why it looks highly suspicious. Finland does not normally use advisors, and even if they did, a guy like Teemu Selänne would not be one of them (with all due respect).

 

[xxxx]

Well, technically not player selections (or maybe perhaps they are), but the management section of Team Finland does read like who's who on former Finnish players. I have no idea how it has come to be, and Jere Lehtinen of course does have a viable excuse for his part, but considering that usually there are completely other guys in those roles for Finland in international circles I feel a question or two arising. Someone must have been taking some sort of initiative for that to happen.

Because to be blatantly honest, I'm not quite so sure Mikko Koivu & co exactly need these people and their experience from tourneys like this to guide them into the finesses of the North American as the official marketing talk has it.

"Lehtinen headlines Finnish World Cup staff
Group also features Numminen, Selanne, Koivu and Timonen"
https://www..com/news/jere-lehtinen-headlines-finnish-2016-world-cup-staff/c-278617460

I don't know about Finland, but isn't it quite normal even for other countries to have their former players as their GM or in the coaching stuff? I recall Pavel Bure being GM of Russia, Bondra the GM of Slovakia, and wasn't Kurri your GM too? As has been said, even the Czechs have some NHLers in their squad, including Prospal, Rucinsky, or Fischer. Also, you think that having some NHL experienced people in the coaching stuff isn't helpful for the coaches that basically never coached on NHL ice?

Team Finland

Kale Kummola, President
Matti Nurminen, Executive Director
Jere Lehtinen, General Manager
Jarmo Kekalainen, Assistant General Manager
Lauri Marjamaki, Head Coach
Teppo Numminen, Assistant Coach
Waltteri Immonen, Assistant Coach
Kalle Kaskinen, Assistant Coach
Ari Hilli, Goalie Coach
Saku Koivu, Advisor to Coaching
Teemu Selänne, Advisor to Team Management
Kimmo Timonen, Advisor & Scout
Jukka Lohva, Team Leader & Media Manager

Seems like any different tournament. It's the world cup, and that these players are being in these roles may rather indicate that the management team takes it seriously and the former players too. I think if any of them didn't want to participate, they wouldn't. But maybe they were promised some financial benefit for that






Similarly Sweden:

Team Sweden

Tommy Boustedt, General Secretary
Rickard Gronborg, Head Coach
Johan Garpenlov, Assistant Coach
Peter Popovic, Assistant Coach
Daniel Alfredsson, Advisory Board
Nicklas Lidstrom, Advisory Board
Mats Sundin, Advisory Board
Peter Forsberg, Vice President/Team Leader

(https://www..com/news/lidstrom-alfredsson-sundin-to-advise-sweden/c-777555)

And you wonder why the names like Forsberg, Lidstrom, Selanne or Timonen are being published by nhl.com...... maybe because the fans would aprecciate to know what legends are in the team in those roles, and it's intresting



btw.....

“Timonen, Selanne and Marjamaki worked together already in the [2014] Sochi Olympics,” he said. Marjamaki was an assistant coach and Timonen and Selanne were veteran leaders. “Players got to know Marjamaki and they saw how he works. They were instantly on the same page. They appreciate Marjamaki as a coach. Marjamaki also had a big desire to get these guys on board. He wants to learn consistently and it was important to get experience and vision regarding the North American hockey.”

“It was important to get Teppo Numminen on board because of his experience as an NHL assistant coach,” Lehtinen said.

“We talked with Kimmo Timonen also in the summer,” Lehtinen said. “He was interested, lives in the U.S. and he was very interested. He helps a lot in the scouting. Saku Koivu and Teemu Selanne bring experience and knowhow. We all have experience from tournaments like this. The situation with the new head coach is new to all and the big tournament is the first experience for Lauri, and because of that it was very important to get Koivu onboard. Selanne will also help in scouting.”

http://www.acmesports.com/timonen-named-to-team-finlands-wch-2016-management-team/

 

[Lempo]

I am not sure If I understand to it clear. You think picking members of management was somehow influenced by NHL?

I don't know about Finland, but isn't it quite normal even for other countries to have their former players as their GM or in the coaching stuff? I recall Pavel Bure being GM of Russia, Bondra the GM of Slovakia, and wasn't Kurri your GM too?

Seems like any different tournament. It's the world cup, and that these players are being in these roles may rather indicate that the management team takes it seriously and wants to include the best they have. I think if any of them didn't want to participate, they wouldn't. But maybe they were promised some financial benefit for that

-klip-

And you wonder why the names like Forsberg, Lidstrom, Selanne or Timonen are being published by nhl.com...... maybe because the fans would aprecciate to know what legends are in the team in those roles, and it's intresting :

I stop short of making any actual accusations, but the management listing really is not what it has been on any other international tournament. I have absolutely no aning of the process how it has come to be but compared to the usual listing of names for Team Finland's management, this one has the airs that the foremost reason for its formation was that the linked NHL.com article could be written and that the familiar names could be dropped by the play-by-play guys during the tourney.

Usually there are totally other guys for this positions, and I would think a professional scout for example would outmatch a former player when it comes to scouting stuff. The implied suggestion that experience as a player in NHL near automatically qualifies you for these duties is closing to be disrespectful towards the other hockey professionals and has the feel of the NHL raising its own tail here to ridiculous extent.

Kekalainen specifically hasn't I believe ever served in any duty in Team Finland, but here the NHL GM does an appearance appropriately as the assistant GM for the World Cup team.

It can of course all be merely a very snide commentary by a mighty ukase from Kummola, who in his IIHF role could be assumed to be somewhat at odds with the whole World Cup thing.

edit: Your quoted article seems to be pretty verbatim to the NHL.com one. And I do continue to question the stated need of "experience and vision" from North American hockey as the given reason for the presence of former longtime (and thusly recognizable to the audiences) NHL players, when the team itself consists mostly of current NHL players.

Like, is the greenhorn coach afraid that the players are going to use their supreme North American experience against him, and so needs the balancing effect on his side? "Lauri... in North America they never make us stretch at the end of a session. And we don't have to shower if we haven't sweated at all." But then Teemu comes in and is like "Good try guys!"

 

[JackSlater]

If the NHL was making teams take along retired legends for name value, wouldn't we be seeing guys like Modano, Chelios, Leetch and any number of Canadians? The country of North America 23U has countless legends that could be advisors to favourite North America U23 son, Todd McLellan.

 

[FiLe]

Seems like any different tournament. It's the world cup, and that these players are being in these roles may rather indicate that the management team takes it seriously and the former players too. I think if any of them didn't want to participate, they wouldn't. But maybe they were promised some financial benefit for that

A retired player gets to travel on somebody else's expense and hang around with his old pals for a couple of weeks with little in the way of actual responsibility? Yeah, who wouldn't take that offer? The league that insisted their presence wins too, because in the eyes of some tools, said presence can actually add to the tournament's credibility. Q.E.D.

 

[Gaps]

If the NHL was making teams take along retired legends for name value, wouldn't we be seeing guys like Modano, Chelios, Leetch and any number of Canadians? The country of North America 23U has countless legends that could be advisors to favourite North America U23 son, Todd McLellan.

Because they think the team's already interesting enough in the eyes of the fans that matter and additions like that aren't needed?

 

[JackSlater]

Because they think the team's already interesting enough in the eyes of the fans that matter and additions like that aren't needed?

Is any fan going to tune in to this tournament or buy a ticket because one star (Selanne) and some other formerly very good players (Timmonen, Koivu) are behind the scenes for Finland? I doubt it.

I hate this tournament, but there are plenty of valid reasons to hate it without speculating about the NHL forcing some federations to take on former players in advisory roles that affect nothing.

 

[Gaps]

Is any fan going to tune in to this tournament or buy a ticket because one star (Selanne) and some other formerly very good players (Timmonen, Koivu) are behind the scenes for Finland? I doubt it.

I hate this tournament, but there are plenty of valid reasons to hate it without speculating about the NHL forcing some federations to take on former players in advisory roles that affect nothing.

Who knows? Considering that there seem to be plenty of North American fans who love this crappy format, nothing would surprise me anymore. The NHL most likely considers Team Finland a bunch of nobodies who no-one in their right mind is interested in watching, so why not do everything they possibly can to get the federation to include familiar names, even if it's just in the press box crew? It's not like it'd do the NHL's agenda any harm.

 

[JackSlater]

Who knows? Considering that there seem to be plenty of North American fans who love this crappy format, nothing would surprise me anymore. The NHL most likely considers Team Finland a bunch of nobodies who no-one in their right mind is interested in watching, so why not do everything they possibly can to get the federation to include familiar names, even if it's just in the press box crew? It's not like it'd do the NHL's agenda any harm.

It's possible in the sense that almost anything is possible, but other than Selanne none of the players associated with team Finland have noteworthy name value. It seems far fetched, and even if the NHL for some reason did force Finland, somehow, to do this... it doesn't really affect anything positively or negatively.

 

[Lempo]

It's possible in the sense that almost anything is possible, but other than Selanne none of the players associated with team Finland have noteworthy name value. It seems far fetched, and even if the NHL for some reason did force Finland, somehow, to do this... it doesn't really affect anything positively or negatively.

Force, suggest, encourage, there are verbs and there are various forms of influence. Mainly why I did bring it up was that the thing suggests that stuff seems to be getting done out of marketing rather than sporting reasons around the tourney. Which is sad because now we have a plausible reason to not be perfectly certain for example if this year's top draftees Matthews and Laine are there because they really should be on best-on-best tourney despite being 18 y.o.s who never have played one single NHL game, or has NHL mayhap subtly pushed for their inclusion as they are to become the hot new properties for this year.

 

[WaveRaven]

Nope not watching.

 

[JackSlater]

Force, suggest, encourage, there are verbs and there are various forms of influence. Mainly why I did bring it up was that the thing suggests that stuff seems to be getting done out of marketing rather than sporting reasons around the tourney. Which is sad because now we have a plausible reason to not be perfectly certain for example if this year's top draftees Matthews and Laine are there because they really should be on best-on-best tourney despite being 18 y.o.s who never have played one single NHL game, or has NHL mayhap subtly pushed for their inclusion as they are to become the hot new properties for this year.

Once again it's possible that the NHL tried to influence Finland, but we don't know. I also don't really care if Finland was "influenced" into taking advisors that won't affect anything. We don't need to speculate on tampering with Laine (likely makes Finland on his own) or Matthews, because we already know that the NHL tampered with two teams. Four of the eight teams in the tournament are not legitimate national teams at all. That's not speculation, just a fact.

 

[Xokkeu]

Once again it's possible that the NHL tried to influence Finland, but we don't know. I also don't really care if Finland was "influenced" into taking advisors that won't affect anything. We don't need to speculate on tampering with Laine (likely makes Finland on his own) or Matthews, because we already know that the NHL tampered with two teams. Four of the eight teams in the tournament are not legitimate national teams at all. That's not speculation, just a fact.

It's so funny, this is like critiquing the Soviet Union for having too high of speed limits, as if it were the biggest misgovernance issue.

 

[Lempo]

It's so funny, this is like critiquing the Soviet Union for having too high of speed limits, as if it were the biggest misgovernance issue.

We as a nation have bad memories of the time when Ferrari F1 team gave the freshly-retired Michael Schumacher an advisory position in the team "due his experience" in developing the car, some sort of vaguely defined thingy right between the team and the driver. Thinks go awry if/when the former sports hero feel the need to show everyone that his totes for-marketing-reasons position is a genuine thing and not at all for marketing reasons.

 

[weklof]

Similarly Sweden:


(https://www..com/news/lidstrom-alfredsson-sundin-to-advise-sweden/c-777555)

And you wonder why the names like Forsberg, Lidstrom, Selanne or Timonen are being published by nhl.com...... maybe because the fans would aprecciate to know what legends are in the team in those roles, and it's intresting

Just for clarification, it is not actually the Peter Forsberg. The Swedish Federation have an upper manager by the same name:

http://old.swehockey.se/Kontakta-oss/?personId=40958&InfoId=10

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

nhl reason for existance = money and grow the game in the united states of america.

iihf reason for existance = for the sport of ice Hockey and the promotion and growth around the world.

now tell me why people should watch something organized by an american entreprise that's sole target is a tiny north american audience?

In a perfect world, every 4 years, only Olympics is all this sport needs.

 

[Xokkeu]

nhl reason for existance = money and grow the game in the united states of america.

iihf reason for existance = for the sport of ice Hockey and the promotion and growth around the world.

now tell me why people should watch something organized by an american entreprise that's sole target is a tiny north american audience?

In a perfect world, every 4 years, only Olympics is all this sport needs.

Hah if that truly was there plan it wouldn't be unreasonable. The NFL with essentially zero fans outside of North America is the richest league in the world.

 

[moon*]

nhl reason for existance = money and grow the game in the united states of america.

iihf reason for existance = for the sport of ice Hockey and the promotion and growth around the world.

now tell me why people should watch something organized by an american entreprise that's sole target is a tiny north american audience?

In a perfect world, every 4 years, only Olympics is all this sport needs.

Are you seriously trying to say we should care about a tournament more because it is run by the pathethic IIHF over the very successful, very intelligent and well run NHL?

As an organization the NHL runs circles around the IIHF. In terms of growing and developing hockey the NHL is light years better and more important than the IIHF.

The IIHF is a corrupt, inept and pathetic little operation that couldn't organize [MOD] if you spotted them a million bucks.

In a perfect world the IIHF doesn't exist and hockey is run by people who know what they are doing and actually know about the sport, Canadians.

 

[DoyleG]

Are you seriously trying to say we should care about a tournament more because it is run by the pathethic IIHF over the very successful, very intelligent and well run NHL?

As an organization the NHL runs circles around the IIHF. In terms of growing and developing hockey the NHL is light years better and more important than the IIHF.

The IIHF is a corrupt, inept and pathetic little operation that couldn't organize [MOD] if you spotted them a million bucks.

In a perfect world the IIHF doesn't exist and hockey is run by people who know what they are doing and actually know about the sport, Canadians.

Yet the IIHF can run international events on a regular basis while it takes years for the NHL to even get an event that passes even the lowest of standards.

Of course, since the NHL is now run by Americans, you can see how foolish your post was.

 

[Canuckistani]

Are you seriously trying to say we should care about a tournament more because it is run by the pathethic IIHF over the very successful, very intelligent and well run NHL?

What's so intelligent about having Canadians and Americans playing against their own countries?

Sounds pretty moronic to me.

 

[moon*]

Yet the IIHF can run international events on a regular basis while it takes years for the NHL to even get an event that passes even the lowest of standards.

Of course, since the NHL is now run by Americans, you can see how foolish your post was.

The international events outside of WJHC in Canada are gabage.