World Cup Boycott

[usahockey22flyers]

I think the U23 and Europe team is a complete joke... I wanna boycott..But I know myself and I'm going to have to watch pretty much every game.

 

[Lataba76]

In my opinion they should take football/soccer as an example.
Its a problem for the NHL to have a best on best tournament every year.
Why not play WHC every four years before (maybe after) the NHL season. So you have a best on best tournament every two years (Olympics/WHC). This tournament should be switched between NA and Europe.

Yes good idea! But why doesn t happend this?

 

[Lepardi]

No. If the Kingdom of Leftovers or the USNAYG wins this, they should receive exactly the same party as the rest of them.

I wasn't talking about what SHOULD happen. I was talking about what WOULD happen. You wrote about what winning this tournament would mean to Finland or Russia, not about what it should mean. It's obvious this tournament is a bigger thing in Finland than it is in countries like Switzerland, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It would be way bigger here even if all of those countries had their own teams taking part, cause Finland is a hockey country. You might not be watching a single game of this World Cup, but plenty of Finns will. And you might not care at all about how Finland does, but plenty of Finns will care.

All of this is pretty obvious and it's got very little to do with the fact that the gimmick teams are a horrible idea. I'm certainly not the only Finn who thinks that including these bogus teams was an epic brain fart but will still watch the games and root for Finland. If you think watching the games and cheering for Finland will make me a bad person, then so be it.

Hmmmm, a nation of North Americans under 23.

I wonder how long we have to talk about this before people start to realize that it's a team for North Americans under the age of 24. I know math can be challenging but it shouldn't be so hard to grasp that it's NOT an U23-team.

 

[Xokkeu]

I wasn't talking about what SHOULD happen. I was talking about what WOULD happen. You wrote about what winning this tournament would mean to Finland or Russia, not about what it should mean. It's obvious this tournament is a bigger thing in Finland than it is in countries like Switzerland, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It would be way bigger here even if all of those countries had their own teams taking part, cause Finland is a hockey country. You might not be watching a single game of this World Cup, but plenty of Finns will. And you might not care at all about how Finland does, but plenty of Finns will care.

All of this is pretty obvious and it's got very little to do with the fact that the gimmick teams are a horrible idea. I'm certainly not the only Finn who thinks that including these bogus teams was an epic brain fart but will still watch the games and root for Finland. If you think watching the games and cheering for Finland will make me a bad person, then so be it.



I wonder how long we have to talk about this before people start to realize that it's a team for North Americans under the age of 24. I know math can be challenging but it shouldn't be so hard to grasp that it's NOT an U23-team.

OMG no I insulted the great nation of North American 23 year olds. Tragedy

 

[kabidjan18]

I wasn't talking about what SHOULD happen. I was talking about what WOULD happen. You wrote about what winning this tournament would mean to Finland or Russia, not about what it should mean. It's obvious this tournament is a bigger thing in Finland than it is in countries like Switzerland, Germany, Denmark and Norway. It would be way bigger here even if all of those countries had their own teams taking part, cause Finland is a hockey country. You might not be watching a single game of this World Cup, but plenty of Finns will. And you might not care at all about how Finland does, but plenty of Finns will care.

All of this is pretty obvious and it's got very little to do with the fact that the gimmick teams are a horrible idea. I'm certainly not the only Finn who thinks that including these bogus teams was an epic brain fart but will still watch the games and root for Finland. If you think watching the games and cheering for Finland will make me a bad person, then so be it.



I wonder how long we have to talk about this before people start to realize that it's a team for North Americans under the age of 24. I know math can be challenging but it shouldn't be so hard to grasp that it's NOT an U23-team.

Are you a long jumper? Because you're great at jumping to conclusions.

 

[xxxx]

Yes, it definitely seems that you're telling people what to think.

Please point out anything from my posts that makes you think that. I wanna learn.

The 2004 World Cup was an actual international best on best tournament. This one is not. Pretty big difference.

I'm not sure what this term means anymore then.

I am definitely with this definition on icehockey.wiki, but whatever.

"Best-on-best" is a term describing a competition that involves the most elite level of players possible.

 

[FiLe]

I'm not sure what this term means anymore then.

The catchword here is "international". It refers to a competition between national teams. This one features two non-national teams, so it's not international. It may loosely apply to terms "best-on-best" and "tournament" when they're used solely, but "international" it is not, and therefore does not apply to the definition "international best-on-best tournament" either. The 2004 edition, however, did match that definition, because it was all between national teams.

Simple, no?

 

[JackSlater]

I'm not sure what this term means anymore then.

It has been explained to you numerous times. Either there are cognitive issues or you are willfully ignoring the definition. It means between nations. This tournament is not between nations, it is between some nations and some non-nations.

 

[Lepardi]

Are you a long jumper? Because you're great at jumping to conclusions.

Did you disagree with something I wrote? It would be nice if you pointed it out. Maybe you as an American don't understand how insignificant hockey is in most of Europe or maybe there was something else you couldn't grasp. If you don't believe that many Finns will watch games even though they don't like the inclusion of bogus teams, I can just tell you that I personally know a lot of people who feel this way about Team McDavid and European Leftovers but are still travelling to Toronto for the tournament.

 

[kabidjan18]

Did you disagree with something I wrote? It would be nice if you pointed it out. Maybe you as an American don't understand how insignificant hockey is in most of Europe or maybe there was something else you couldn't grasp. If you don't believe that many Finns will watch games even though they don't like the inclusion of bogus teams, I can just tell you that I personally know a lot of people who feel this way about Team McDavid and European Leftovers but are still travelling to Toronto for the tournament.

Latvia has as much right to be in the tournament as any country you named, and they care as much about hockey as anyone, but it's good you just jumped to the conclusion that since the other countries aren't finland they must not care so much. Some of the former Soviet countries give quite a few craps too, and it's the 3rd sport in Austria, so please save me your "no one else would care anyways", sure, Finnish people care, but so do other people, and other countries care more than the country euro leftovers or the U23 NA nation state.

Also, you randomly assumed the other finns who don't like the tournament think you're a bad person. What about I do the same. If you assume that I'm a serial killer because I don't like the format, so be it. You see how that's kinda a large jump? Keep jumping leopard you'll make it to the Olympics someday.

 

[Lepardi]

Latvia has as much right to be in the tournament as any country you named, and they care as much about hockey as anyone

I'm aware of the fact that hockey is popular in Latvia (although I'm highly doubtful it's as big there as it is in Canada), but how many players on Team Europe will be from Latvia? Or from Belarus or Slovakia? The majority of players on Team Europe are from countries where hockey is nowhere near to being the number one sport. Every player on Team Finland is from a country where hockey is the clear-cut number one sport. This is such a major difference that it's safe to say the World Cup matters more to Finland than it does to Team European Leftovers.

I also have to disagree with your claim that Latvia has as much right to be in the tournament as Switzerland does. Switzerland is three positions above Latvia in the IIHF rankings and they've had 13 guys play in the NHL this season versus Latvia's three. I've read that the NHL didn't have the time to organize a qualification for this World Cup. Had they still wanted to have a real eight-team international tournament instead of creating two gimmick teams, Switzerland certainly should have been included before Latvia. The numbers speak for themselves.

"no one else would care anyways"

I never said no one else would care. I said that Finns care way more than the European Leftovers do.

Also, you randomly assumed the other finns who don't like the tournament think you're a bad person.

When I used the pronoun "you", I wasn't talking about "other Finns". I was talking about FiLe. I assume he's one person so I wouldn't speak about him in plural. I didn't feel that the assumption was awfully far-fetched given that FiLe has been pretty adamant about his resentment towards this tournament and written things such as this: "And if you don't care, simply because your country is still in it and there will be a party if they happen to win, well... all I've got to say is that you should be utterly ashamed of yourself, because you are nothing but a navel-gazing boor."

I've seen many people here criticizing the World Cup for being "nothing but a cash grab". I totally agree that it is nothing but a cash grab, but to me that's the whole idea of professional sports. The NHL itself is nothing but a cash grab. The NFL is a cash grab. The NBA is a cash grab. And even the IIHF World Championships is a cash grab.

Personally, I don't like the inclusion of the gimmick teams one bit. However, it's still a great excuse to get away from home and go drinking abroad for a week. I also think we're going to see some quality hockey. I do believe that when the Finnish players get to play Sweden and Russia in a tournament like this, they will be trying their best and not thinking about how stupid the inclusion of the gimmick teams was. I've been to America six times before to see NHL games. It's great fun, but I'll certainly be more emotionally invested this time around, cause I'll see my country play instead of teams representing cities I've never even dreamed of living in. That's mostly why I decided to go to the World Cup this year instead of planning another trip around NHL and NBA games, and now I've already booked hotel rooms for 11 people. I'd still much rather see Finland play Switzerland or Slovakia than Team McDavid and I'd rather see McDavid play for Canada than for a bogus team, but I'll live with it.

 

[kabidjan18]

I'm aware of the fact that hockey is popular in Latvia (although I'm highly doubtful it's as big there as it is in Canada), but how many players on Team Europe will be from Latvia? Or from Belarus or Slovakia? The majority of players on Team Europe are from countries where hockey is nowhere near to being the number one sport. Every player on Team Finland is from a country where hockey is the clear-cut number one sport. This is such a major difference that it's safe to say the World Cup matters more to Finland than it does to Team European Leftovers.

I also have to disagree with your claim that Latvia has as much right to be in the tournament as Switzerland does. Switzerland is three positions above Latvia in the IIHF rankings and they've had 13 guys play in the NHL this season versus Latvia's three. I've read that the NHL didn't have the time to organize a qualification for this World Cup. Had they still wanted to have a real eight-team international tournament instead of creating two gimmick teams, Switzerland certainly should have been included before Latvia. The numbers speak for themselves.



I never said no one else would care. I said that Finns care way more than the European Leftovers do.



When I used the pronoun "you", I wasn't talking about "other Finns". I was talking about FiLe. I assume he's one person so I wouldn't speak about him in plural. I didn't feel that the assumption was awfully far-fetched given that FiLe has been pretty adamant about his resentment towards this tournament and written things such as this: "And if you don't care, simply because your country is still in it and there will be a party if they happen to win, well... all I've got to say is that you should be utterly ashamed of yourself, because you are nothing but a navel-gazing boor."

I've seen many people here criticizing the World Cup for being "nothing but a cash grab". I totally agree that it is nothing but a cash grab, but to me that's the whole idea of professional sports. The NHL itself is nothing but a cash grab. The NFL is a cash grab. The NBA is a cash grab. And even the IIHF World Championships is a cash grab.

Personally, I don't like the inclusion of the gimmick teams one bit. However, it's still a great excuse to get away from home and go drinking abroad for a week. I also think we're going to see some quality hockey. I do believe that when the Finnish players get to play Sweden and Russia in a tournament like this, they will be trying their best and not thinking about how stupid the inclusion of the gimmick teams was. I've been to America six times before to see NHL games. It's great fun, but I'll certainly be more emotionally invested this time around, cause I'll see my country play instead of teams representing cities I've never even dreamed of living in. That's mostly why I decided to go to the World Cup this year instead of planning another trip around NHL and NBA games.

Ok, so Finland the country is more enthusiastic about the world cup than the mythical European nation state minus 4 European nations...I don't see what this applies to but yes it's true...?

I agree with the qualifications deal, I believe what the NHL is saying there, but Latvians would massacre you for saying that not having NHL stars means their team is worse. They beat the Swiss the last time at the Olympics and at the last WC. Rankings...don't get me started on those.

I explained it earlier and I don't feel like copy pasting, there is a significant difference between the english phrases "money grab" and the idea of normal business. I don't expect you to get it but they do mean different things, just don't worry about it when people say that, it's cool.

Cool, have fun, try the NFL sometime, or college ball, Bama, LSU

 

[FiLe]

Personally, I don't like the inclusion of the gimmick teams one bit. However, it's still a great excuse to get away from home and go drinking abroad for a week. I also think we're going to see some quality hockey. I do believe that when the Finnish players get to play Sweden and Russia in a tournament like this, they will be trying their best and not thinking about how stupid the inclusion of the gimmick teams was. I've been to America six times before to see NHL games. It's great fun, but I'll certainly be more emotionally invested this time around, cause I'll see my country play instead of teams representing cities I've never even dreamed of living in. That's mostly why I decided to go to the World Cup this year instead of planning another trip around NHL and NBA games.

This here's a big issue. I don't doubt one bit that Finland is going to mail it in vs. Russia or Sweden, but in a tournament like this, all - not just some - games should be meaningful.

Also, I've this feeling that most of these people who don't mind the tournament now are of the mind because they're fully expecting the gimmicks to be eliminated before the decisive games. If the medal round is all NT-on-NT action, they will think it's a great tournament with genuine legitimacy. However, if one of the gimmicks makes it, it's going to sour the minds of many.

It's kind of hard to tell what's more infuriating - the inclusion of these gimmicks in the first place, or the post-tournament hubbub that's going to remind me that I live on a planet full of idiots. Not that it's going to be a shock in the first place, but still.

 

[Lepardi]

I explained it earlier and I don't feel like copy pasting, there is a significant difference between the english phrases "money grab" and the idea of normal business. I don't expect you to get it but they do mean different things, just don't worry about it when people say that, it's cool.

I do believe I understand what people mean by a "money grab". We have a term for it here in Finland too: it's called "pelkkää rahastusta". It's just that I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to money and I feel that when you're saying that the World Cup is a money grab and the NHL is not, you're just romanticizing "normal" NHL games, cause you aren't willing to admit to yourself that to the NHL you are nothing but a customer no matter whether it's the World Cup or the Stanley Cup playoffs. When I watch NFL, NBA, NHL or even the Finnish Elite League here in my home town, I always think that they're just after my money. But I'm happy to pay, cause I feel I'm entertained.

If the medal round is all NT-on-NT action, they will think it's a great tournament with genuine legitimacy.

I certainly won't be feeling this way. Let's say Sweden manages to beat USA or Canada (they've obviously got a better chance of doing that than Finland does). The achievement would be tarnished by the fact that Canada wasn't allowed to pick McDavid and USA wasn't allowed to pick Gaudreau.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

I can't wait to see the boring crowds.

A tournament no one in the Hockey World knows about. No soul from any other country will travel to the event, It'll be interesting to see Canadians in the stands watching Russia vs. Sweden etc.

Then compare it to the crowds at Prague 2015 or Russia 2016, where every Hockey country has travelers from across the World visiting and celebrating in the festivities, and we can laugh at this event even more and see how much of a cash grab this is, instead of a Global reunion of countries celebrating our love for the game, which is what International tournaments represent first and foremost.

 

[Lepardi]

Then compare it to the crowds at Prague 2015 or Russia 2016, where every Hockey country has travelers from across the World visiting and celebrating in the festivities, and we can laugh at this event even more and see how much of a cash grab this is, instead of a Global reunion of countries celebrating our love for the game, which is what International tournaments represent first and foremost.

One of the reasons I prefer to travel to the World Cup is that I don't want to be associated with the kind of Finns who travel to the World Championships of hockey. I'm certainly not the most civilized guy you'd ever meet, but even I might feel a bit uncomfortable among all those illiterate hillbillies.

 

[FiLe]

I certainly won't be feeling this way. Let's say Sweden manages to beat USA or Canada (they've obviously got a better chance of doing that than Finland does). The achievement would be tarnished by the fact that Canada wasn't allowed to pick McDavid and USA wasn't allowed to pick Gaudreau.

Yeah. And this will be made even more evident if one of the gimmicks makes it as far as the final game.

That being said, I certainly can't fault anyone who doesn't give a damn about the results but wants to watch it for some good hockey alone, like singular series of friendlies or something. However, I can't do even that in good conscience, being aware that the success of this thing may directly tie into the NHL's willingness to participate in the upcoming Olympics. If a year and a half from now, Gary announces that the league won't break for Pyeongchang, then adds "but we gave you the World Cup in 2016, that was a great event", I know I'm going to feel this uncontrollable urge to smash his face in.

One of the reasons I prefer to travel to the World Cup is that I don't want to be associated with the kind of Finns who travel to the World Championships of hockey. I'm certainly not the most civilized guy you'd ever meet, but even I might feel a bit uncomfortable among all those illiterate hillbillies.

If you ask me, you DO have a bit of a dandy living inside you. After all, I can read just fine (and even know some foreign languages), yet I've never felt overly uncomfortable being in the same arena with this crowd. Maybe it's because I don't have to associate with them if I don't wanna. There's plenty of room for all types, lemme assure you.

 

[kabidjan18]

I do believe I understand what people mean by a "money grab". We have a term for it here in Finland too: it's called "pelkkää rahastusta". It's just that I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to money and I feel that when you're saying that the World Cup is a money grab and the NHL is not, you're just romanticizing "normal" NHL games, cause you aren't willing to admit to yourself that to the NHL you are nothing but a customer no matter whether it's the World Cup or the Stanley Cup playoffs. When I watch NFL, NBA, NHL or even the Finnish Elite League here in my home town, I always think that they're just after my money. But I'm happy to pay, cause I feel I'm entertained.

Yeah...you're missing it...you're trying to compare what is accepted as a standard business product to a debatable product, your argument should be the other way around, that the debatable product is like the standard product. That's what really tips me off that you don't get the exact concept but it doesn't matter because I get what you're trying to say.

Have a nice time, you can take boycott plan 3, and not buy concessions or beer in the stadium but plan around restaurants and get your beer there. Wear old Finland memorabilia so you don't need to buy the new stuff. Stay away from severely overpriced gift shops. Boycotting is all about tiers, you choose what tier suits you, everyone doesn't need to go cold turkey to get the point across.

 

[Lepardi]

After all, I can read just fine (and even know some foreign languages), yet I've never felt overly uncomfortable being in the same arena with this crowd.

You don't have to tell me you know how to read, cause I've seen your English. By Finnish standards it's terrific, and it's certainly better than mine. That's why I found it hard to believe that you're a guy who travels to the IIHF Worlds (you've written about it before) and supports Finland with this crowd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkCv74B8xs#t=1m02s

I've seen plenty of videos and stories about Finnish fans at the World Championships, and so far they've been enough to convince me not to go. But you never know, maybe some day I'm gonna get old and change my mind.

 

[Lepardi]

Have a nice time, you can take boycott plan 3, and not buy concessions or beer in the stadium but plan around restaurants and get your beer there. Wear old Finland memorabilia so you don't need to buy the new stuff.

I have no Finland gear partly because the Finnish national symbols have been pretty much hijacked by racist bigots here. I once saw a Norwegian guy in New York who'd had the Finnish lion tattooed on his forearm to honor his Finnish heritage. I told him it's nice but I wouldn't show it around too eagerly in Finland, cause the connotations aren't positive.

The idea of buying your beers in restaurants instead of the ACC is great, but three hours without alcohol is too long for Finnish tourists.

 

[kabidjan18]

You don't have to tell me you know how to read, cause I've seen your English. By Finnish standards it's terrific, and it's certainly better than mine. That's why I found it hard to believe that you're a guy who travels to the IIHF Worlds (you've written about it before) and supports Finland with this crowd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkCv74B8xs#t=1m02s

I've seen plenty of videos and stories about Finnish fans at the World Championships, and so far they've been enough to convince me not to go. But you never know, maybe some day I'm gonna get old and change my mind.

I can't understand a word they're saying or pick out if they sound super uneducated but I think I'd love to go to a game with those people. People who are hillbillies and you call them or illiterate or drunk are usually the loudest and most passionate fans and they make the environment live. You don't need to be uneducated to love a fun crowd lol

The idea of buying your beers in restaurants insted of the ACC is great, but three hours without alcohol is too long for Finnish tourists.

Lool, you said it not me

 

[FiLe]

You don't have to tell me you know how to read, cause I've seen your English. By Finnish standards it's terrific, and it's certainly better than mine. That's why I found it hard to believe that you're a guy who travels to the IIHF Worlds (you've written about it before) and supports Finland with this crowd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkkCv74B8xs#t=1m02s

I've seen plenty of videos and stories about Finnish fans at the World Championships, and so far they've been enough to convince me not to go. But you never know, maybe some day I'm gonna get old and change my mind.

A few notes...

One: Being in the same arena with those folks does not mean you have to be with them, if you catch my drift. Those barns draw 10 to 15 thousand people, after all.

Two: Don't assume the arena is full of them. It may seem like that while watching the telly, but it's because the cameramen are more or less instructed to seek out those loons (plus all the pretty girls). If there's a guy in regular street clothes, maybe wearing a blue-and-white scarf (that's me), the chance of having one's fifteen seconds of fame is practically nonexistent.

Three: If push comes to shove, I can always pretend I'm NOT a Finn. Speaking almost flawless English certainly helps.

 

[Xokkeu]

I do believe I understand what people mean by a "money grab". We have a term for it here in Finland too: it's called "pelkkää rahastusta". It's just that I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to money and I feel that when you're saying that the World Cup is a money grab and the NHL is not, you're just romanticizing "normal" NHL games, cause you aren't willing to admit to yourself that to the NHL you are nothing but a customer no matter whether it's the World Cup or the Stanley Cup playoffs. When I watch NFL, NBA, NHL or even the Finnish Elite League here in my home town, I always think that they're just after my money. But I'm happy to pay, cause I feel I'm entertained.



I certainly won't be feeling this way. Let's say Sweden manages to beat USA or Canada (they've obviously got a better chance of doing that than Finland does). The achievement would be tarnished by the fact that Canada wasn't allowed to pick McDavid and USA wasn't allowed to pick Gaudreau.

The US team would probably have at minimum 3-4 players off the North America team.

I'd be more inclined this tournament a whirl is the NHL didn't handicap team USA and Canada(although Canada will obviously be fine) for selfish reasons.

The US team is not better than the other European teams to the point it can give up 3 or 4 good players.

 

[Jablkon]

A few notes...

One: Being in the same arena with those folks does not mean you have to be with them, if you catch my drift. Those barns draw 10 to 15 thousand people, after all.

Two: Don't assume the arena is full of them. It may seem like that while watching the telly, but it's because the cameramen are more or less instructed to seek out those loons (plus all the pretty girls). If there's a guy in regular street clothes, maybe wearing a blue-and-white scarf (that's me), the chance of having one's fifteen seconds of fame is practically nonexistent.

Three: If push comes to shove, I can always pretend I'm NOT a Finn. Speaking almost flawless English certainly helps.

Those gyus always seem to me quiet in the arena. They are always noisy outside but since tha match start they mostly look like some coma catch them, or alcohol... So I dont think it makes you uncomfortable. True, during WHC most fans are like this, but its generally quite funny. If I wanted to be part of it, I was, but I always made myself comfortable...

 

[syz]

It's played on small ice, so I'll at least pay more attention to it than I did to the Olympics or any WHC.