Blue Jays Discussion: WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo!!!!!!!!!! (avatars: posts 1-4)

[theaub]

The way it was explained last night, the review was a rules review. Meaning the ump sought clarification if the ball should have been live. I don't think they actually reviewed what happened.

Yup, the rules review was solely done since the Jays wanted to put the game under protest. At no point did they review the outcome of the play.

 

[BertCorbeau]

The way it was explained last night, the review was a rules review. Meaning the ump sought clarification if the ball should have been live. I don't think they actually reviewed what happened.

Yup, the rules review was solely done since the Jays wanted to put the game under protest. At no point did they review the outcome of the play.

Ahhh I see.

I was at a bar after work for the game so I couldn't hear the commentators.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Ah yes, the guilty until proven innocent approach.

The burden of responsibility has to be on the hitter getting out of the way.
Otherwise, already too long baseball games will take longer.
The catcher needs to get the ball back to the pitcher as quickly as possible.

Having to wait around for shirt adjustments be unsportsmanlike batters is ludicrous.

 

[Eb]

The way it was explained last night, the review was a rules review. Meaning the ump sought clarification if the ball should have been live. I don't think they actually reviewed what happened.

I think that is what happened after the game went on 'protest'.

Before that, I think they did check back with NY and reviewed the play again to see if Choo was out of the box.

 

[topched]

He obviously didn't.
Choo purposely interfered, as he has attempted many times.
If you are going to stretch your arm out like that ... HE needs to move further back.

Dude. The rule is super clear, Choo's bat is still in the batters box, and that's all that matters.

Choo can do jumping jacks or play air guitar with his bat as long as it stays inside the box. Martin had a ton of time and space to throw that ball back.

Absolute fluke

 

[Slot]

bahahaha what

You're honestly going to tell me Martin doesn't have a throwing lane there? Seriously?

Getting a little parallax from the angle there, the behind the plate angle shows how far over the plate the bat was, not disagreeing with you totally but it was definitely encroaching over the plate.

 

[Bad News Benning]

To me it looked like Choo's hands were right on the edge of the back corner of the batters box and eventhough it wasn't intentional he still interfered with the catchers natural throwing lane back to the pitcher (you can see Martin in the middle of the plate so it's not like he was expecting a bat to show up in the path of his throw). Not sure what's stopping all left handed hitters "accidently" sticking their arms out to the back corner right in the path of a right handed catchers throwing motion. I feel the "in the batters box so it's fair game" has to be adjusted and that it should state any throw that is disrupted on it's way back to the pitcher where the batters arms are extended on purpose or accidently in the catchers natural throwing lane shall result in a dead ball.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

So you are arguing that Choo doesn't actually have a hitting routine

I'm saying he interfered with the throw back to the plate. HIS BAT ... was illegally interfering with the throw back to the plate.
IN FACT, this unsportsmanlike player's bat actually contacted the ball .... which is clearly illegal and unfair.

You have no proof he did it "Unintentionally".

 

[theaub]

Certainly, the rule should be changed so that's a dead ball because its a total BS way for the run to score.

But the only one who messed up there was Martin.

 

[Longshot]

After all the discussion I still haven't heard an explanation for how and why the umpires were able to overturn a play that was clearly ruled dead.

Taking last night's play out of the discussion, can anybody ever remember seeing that happen before?

A play happens, umps rule it dead, players stop playing, umps overturn the dead play ruling allowing something to happen subsequent.

I thought it was pretty set in stone that once a play is ruled dead, it's dead.

 

[canadon]

I was watching the game in Montreal (hotel)... in French, so I could not understand what the commentators were saying. Thank you guys for providing the information on what had actually happened during that weird episode.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'm saying he interfered with the throw back to the plate. HIS BAT ... was illegally interfering with the throw back to the plate.
IN FACT, this unsportsmanlike player's bat actually contacted the ball .... which is clearly illegal and unfair.

You have no proof he did it "Unintentionally".

And you have no proof to say he did it intentionally.

None of us have proof one way or the other .. There's no point in debating it really.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Not sure what's stopping all left handed hitters "accidently" sticking their arms out to the back corner right in the path of a right handed catchers throwing motion.

Exactly.

If you can't hit the ball being pitched to you ... take another swipe at it as the catcher throws it back. Smart move ... just like Choo shrewdly did.

The correct call is to give Choo a warning for intentionally interfering with the ball and that further rule violations could result in his ejection.

 

[Ovate]

Getting a little parallax from the angle there, the behind the plate angle shows how far over the plate the bat was, not disagreeing with you totally but it was definitely encroaching over the plate.

Do you have any photos of that?

All the evidence says it's not interference. Even if Choo stuck out his bat intentionally to deflect the ball, it would still be a legal play if he kept it inside the batter's box.

 

[Longshot]

Certainly, the rule should be changed so that's a dead ball because its a total BS way for the run to score.

But the only one who messed up there was Martin.

The ump screwed up royally when he ruled the play dead!

 

[topched]

Certainly, the rule should be changed so that's a dead ball because its a total BS way for the run to score.

But the only one who messed up there was Martin.

The funny thing is, if Jays aren't playing a shift, the errant throw is right at Donaldson and Odor doesn't even take a step towards home.

It was literally a perfect storm

 

[theaub]

After all the discussion I still haven't heard an explanation for how and why the umpires were able to overturn a play that was clearly ruled dead.

Taking last night's play out of the discussion, can anybody ever remember seeing that happen before?

A play happens, umps rule it dead, players stop playing, umps overturn the dead play ruling allowing something to happen subsequent.

I thought it was pretty set in stone that once a play is ruled dead, it's dead.

8.02c all day

I actually don't know what 8.02c is (well its that umps have authority to do whatever the hell they want but I don't know the direct wording), but the first thing I learned as an umpire was to just say '8.02c, go check your rulebook'

 

[Rysto]

It's pretty nuts to think how the core of the lineup was largely created by acquiring rejects (with the exception being Donaldson who was at odds with Beane). We got Jose for Robinson Diaz. Edwin was acquired for Scott Rolen.

Even Donaldson was a reject rescued by Beane.

Correction: We got Zach Stewart for Scott Rolen.

Edwin was the throw in to play 3rd for the rest of the year. My GOD

I read a news story a couple of months ago that said that EE was a salary dump and the Jays would have preferred to not take him at all.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The way the Royals score runs really shouldn't have any impact on the way the Jays try to score runs. The Jays had the best offense in baseball this year because they're patient and have a ton of power. Trying to adopt the Royals' "swing at everything and slap the ball around" approach would make them worse.

Ya, not sure I get the logic behind matching their small ball play at all.

Has no barring on our offence one bit.

well i am not saying go out there, and swing at everything. but at the same time, wouldn't taking a more. more patient approach (because for games 1-2, and a part of game 5), the Jays weren't patient at all. and I know a complaint has been especially if we don't go all "Blue Jay" - that we swing for home runs, not for base hits.

in my mind, wouldn't that help? but apparently not, so my apologises for having a different chain of thought.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

And you have no proof to say he did it intentionally.

The burden of proof needs to be on the batter getting out of the way.
Choo interfered ... it could have been intentional (and always "could be" intentional) so anytime a batter interferes with a throw back to the mound ... the play is dead.

None of us have proof one way or the other .. There's no point in debating it really.

Probably not.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I'm fine with the way the rule was applied, as much as it would have been the worst way to lose if it ended as such. The small concern I have is batters now going out of their way to try and utilize their batter's box space.

Strictly hypothetical, but I'm curious to know what kind of ruling would be made if instead of the bat, Martin struck Choo in the helmet.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Do you have any photos of that?

All the evidence says it's not interference. Even if Choo stuck out his bat intentionally to deflect the ball, it would still be a legal play if he kept it inside the batter's box.

Actually that's wrong:

MLB Rule 6.03 (a) (3):

"If the batter is standing in the batter's box and he or his bat is struck by the catcher's throw back to the pitcher, and, in the umpire's judgment, there is no intent on the part of the batter to interfere with the throw, the ball is alive and in play.''

Any intent to deflect the ball by the batter would be a dead play

 

[Sokil]

and the KC trolls have been unleashed

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The funny thing is, if Jays aren't playing a shift, the errant throw is right at Donaldson and Odor doesn't even take a step towards home.

It was literally a perfect storm

LOL.
And Odur (that *******) was so smart to run home.
Kudos to him !

But, in a twist of fate, his smart move was his team's undoing. The ****-storm that followed clearly impacted play on the field. 3 errors, bye bye Hamels, batflip, done.

 

[TootooTrain]

After all the discussion I still haven't heard an explanation for how and why the umpires were able to overturn a play that was clearly ruled dead.

Taking last night's play out of the discussion, can anybody ever remember seeing that happen before?

A play happens, umps rule it dead, players stop playing, umps overturn the dead play ruling allowing something to happen subsequent.

I thought it was pretty set in stone that once a play is ruled dead, it's dead.

It's because it's a live ball and they had no chance at making the play at home. I made a similar argument for why they kept calling time in the middle of stroman's delivery, but that's different because the ball wasn't put into play yet. Take for example, if there's a runner on 3rd and the batter swings, hits the ball into play that the homeplate umpire thinks deflected off his foot, he can rule the play dead. But if it's reviewed as a fair ball, it's a hit and the run comes in.