GDT: WJC ‘23

[frag2]

I had to laugh when they were quoting Williams something "ya i took 4 Seattle players to make it easier on my club, although that didn't seem to stop them". lol

Was good to see the Czech program back up and running. If they would've had another one or two game breaking type of players up front they would've been a pretty damn good team overall.


If Yakupov had the IQ Bedard has he would've probably scored 40 goals in a season in the NHL by now.

Forget IQ. Even if he was an idiot, just a better work ethic he could’ve been Hoffman-lite at worst.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Little done? 2G 1A first elimination game. 1G 1A in the semis, and no points but set his line mates up for point bank chances 3 times tonight.

Can you imagine saying he did little?

Best preformance in a world junior by a Canadian ever. Top preformance out of any player this tournament.

Smashed how many records this tournament?

17 years old

Little done lol might be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board.

OK, lets deep dive it. Against the Hardest tests Canada faced in the tournament Bedard wasn't exceptional. To wit in two games against Czechs he had 1G 1pt. He had zero in the gold medal match, held off the scoresheet, and couldn't even muster anything in 3 on 3 format which perfectly suits him.

Against US Bedard had a goal and an assist. 2pts but also in a high scoring game against an opponent that seems to have a lot of trouble defensively. Its one of the weaker US sides I'd seen.

So thats the 3 toughest games of tournament for Bedard and he has 3pts collectively in those 3 games. These are the competitive matches that most reflect what Bedard might look kike at a higher level of play. I'm not convinced, and never have been, that piling up pts against relegation level squads is the signpost of greatness and yet the vast majority of Bedards tournament production occurred in the two games against the weakest opponents he faced. Bedard had 13of his pts in those two games. Austria and Germany. He had a non legendary combined 10pts in the other 5 games.

Unfortunately for Bedard there are no weak sisters to this degree in the NHL.

But I think its reasonable to state that even a non touted Czech club was able to almost completely contain Bedard through two games. Shane Wright and Dylan Guenther were Canada's two most productive players in those two hard games against the Czechs. Guenther had 2G 2A in these games including the golden goal. Wright had 2G 1A in the two matches. Notably Guenther led the team and was Heroic in the Gold medal final scoring 2G, assisting on the other Canada goal and being involved in all of Canadas scoring plays. Bedard was involved in 0-0-0 in the gold medal match.

 

[Oilhawks]

OK, lets deep dive it. Against the Hardest tests Canada faced in the tournament Bedard wasn't exceptional. To wit in two games against Czechs he had 1G 1pt. He had zero in the gold medal match, held off the scoresheet, and couldn't even muster anything in 3 on 3 format which perfectly suits him.

Against US Bedard had a goal and an assist. 2pts but also in a high scoring game against an opponent that seems to have a lot of trouble defensively. Its one of the weaker US sides I'd seen.

So thats the 3 toughest games of tournament for Bedard and he has 3pts collectively in those 3 games. These are the competitive matches that most reflect what Bedard might look kike at a higher level of play. I'm not convinced, and never have been, that piling up pts against relegation level squads is the signpost of greatness and yet the vast majority of Bedards tournament production occurred in the two games against the weakest opponents he faced. Bedard had 13of his pts in those two games. Austria and Germany. He had a non legendary combined 10pts in the other 5 games.

Unfortunately for Bedard there are no weak sisters to this degree in the NHL.

But I think its reasonable to state that even a non touted Czech club was able to almost completely contain Bedard through two games. Shane Wright and Dylan Guenther were Canada's two most productive players in those two hard games against the Czechs. Guenther had 2G 2A in these games including the golden goal. Wright had 2G 1A in the two matches. Notably Guenther led the team and was Heroic in the Gold medal final scoring 2G, assisting on the other Canada goal and being involved in all of Canadas scoring plays. Bedard was involved in 0-0-0 in the gold medal match.

Canucks fans are going to be pissed about that trade to send the Guenther pick to ‘Zona for a decade + (maybe longer).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Canucks fans are going to be pissed about that trade to send the Guenther pick to ‘Zona for a decade + (maybe longer).

Guenther was the big game hunter for Canada. Doesn't get much better at Juniors then scoring 2G 1A including the OT gold medal winning goal in a 3-2 game. What a huge game he had. Canada doesn't win it without him. Bedard in this game was pretty easily contained and walked to perimeter on most rushes. I figured 3 on 3 Bedard must be able to get something going, but no.

 

[Oilhawks]

Guenther was the big game hunter for Canada. Doesn't get much better at Juniors then scoring 2G 1A including the OT gold medal winning goal in a 3-2 game. What a huge game he had. Canada doesn't win it without him.

It’s a shame the Oilers couldn’t draft him, would be nice to have a high skill forward like him as a local product

 

[Drivesaitl]

It’s a shame the Oilers couldn’t draft him, would be nice to have a high skill forward like him as a local product

Maybe trade your team Canada guy there in your avatar. and Pulju and a 2nd pick for him. haha.

Would be a shame for Guenther to end up in a hockey wasteland.

 

[joestevens29]

Wright sent to the OHL. I know there seemed to be a coach vs GM battle going on, but I was curious if the Kraken would bring him up to see if he can build on his success at the WJC. I guess he's played 8 games though already.

 

[Slats432]

Guenther was the big game hunter for Canada. Doesn't get much better at Juniors then scoring 2G 1A including the OT gold medal winning goal in a 3-2 game. What a huge game he had. Canada doesn't win it without him. Bedard in this game was pretty easily contained and walked to perimeter on most rushes. I figured 3 on 3 Bedard must be able to get something going, but no.

I think they just overplayed Bedard. Not much jump in Gold Medal Game.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Bedard is 17 playing against teams constructed mostly with 19 year olds.

In theory if you want to compare apples to apples you'll have to wait until Bedard is 19 to get an accurate measurement of where he's at compared to his peers. That will be at the 2025 world juniors and Bedard will most likely be in his 2nd NHL season by then.

If you want to look at past highly touted prospects playing in the world jrs at 17 that might be a better comparison.

Crosby had 6 goals and 3 assists (5th in team scoring)
Matthews had 7 goals and 4 assists (tied for 1st in team scoring)
McDavid had 3 goals and 8 assists (tied with Sam Reinhart, Nic Petan for 1st in team scoring)
Eichel had 1 goal and 3 assists (3rd in team scoring)

Bedard finished the tournament with 9 goals and 14 assists for 23 pts.

but because he didn't completely dominate 100% of the time some of people here are calling him a bust when McJesus didn't even dominate the scoreboard in the manner that Bedard did at the same age.

But hey, he had a couple of games where he didn't get a point so i guess that means he's terrible....

 

[frag2]

Bedard is 17 playing against teams constructed mostly with 19 year olds.

In theory if you want to compare apples to apples you'll have to wait until Bedard is 19 to get an accurate measurement of where he's at compared to his peers. That will be at the 2025 world juniors and Bedard will most likely be in his 2nd NHL season by then.

If you want to look at past highly touted prospects playing in the world jrs at 17 that might be a better comparison.

Crosby had 6 goals and 3 assists (5th in team scoring)
Matthews had 7 goals and 4 assists (tied for 1st in team scoring)
McDavid had 3 goals and 8 assists (tied with Sam Reinhart, Nic Petan for 1st in team scoring)
Eichel had 1 goal and 3 assists (3rd in team scoring)

Bedard finished the tournament with 9 goals and 14 assists for 23 pts.

but because he didn't completely dominate 100% of the time some of people here are calling him a bust when McJesus didn't even dominate the scoreboard in the manner that Bedard did at the same age.

But hey, he had a couple of games where he didn't get a point so i guess that means he's terrible....

Was McD even playing the top line during his year? Couldve sworn he wasn't since that team was fairly deep

 

[Drivesaitl]

Bedard is 17 playing against teams constructed mostly with 19 year olds.

Bedard finished the tournament with 9 goals and 14 assists for 23 pts.

but because he didn't completely dominate 100% of the time some of people here are calling him a bust when McJesus didn't even dominate the scoreboard in the manner that Bedard did at the same age.

But hey, he had a couple of games where he didn't get a point so i guess that means he's terrible....

No need for strawman or facepalms. Nobody said the bolded.

ALL of my comments on Bedard are in relation to ridiculous comments here that Bedard is already equal to or better than McDavid.

That discussion specific to Bedard originated in the Bedard thread and some comments have carried forward here.

Bedard it could be said dominated in half the games. The other half he had trouble getting much done.

Fair comment that he's younger. But he's 17.5yrs old. Without a significant late growth spurt he will be an undersized player in the NHL playing against men.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Was McD even playing the top line during his year? Couldve sworn he wasn't since that team was fairly deep

Like I wrote in my previous post. McDavid was tied with Nic Petan and Sam Reinhart in team scoring so that should tell you everything you need to know right there.

But here's the roster anyways.... not exactly a star studded roster.

No need for strawman or facepalms. Nobody said the bolded.

ALL of my comments on Bedard are in relation to ridiculous comments here that Bedard is already equal to or better than McDavid.

That discussion specific to Bedard originated in the Bedard thread and some comments have carried forward here.

Bedard it could be said dominated in half the games. The other half he had trouble getting much done.

Fair comment that he's younger. But he's 17.5yrs old. Without a significant late growth spurt he will be an undersized player in the NHL playing against men.

Someone on the previous page compared him to yakupov. That's the facepalm.

 

[Beerfish]

World junior championship all stars and the Oilers:

1977 and 1978 Risto Siltanen
1978 Wayne Gretzky
1980 Reijo Ruotsolainen
1982 and 1983 Ilya Byakin
1983 Vladamire Ruzicka
1985 Esa Tikkanen
1986 Shayne Corson
1986 Igor Vyazmikin
1990 Jiri Slegr
1991 Martin Rucinksy
1994 David Vyborny
1997 Sergi Samsonov
2001 Jani Rita
2002 Micheal Cammalleri
2003 Joni Pitkanen
2004 Al Montoya
2010 Jordan Eberle
2012 Oscar Klefbom
2013 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2015 Connor McDavid
2016 Jessi Puljujarvi

2021 Trevor Zegras.....(oops!)
2022 Jesper Wallstsdht..... (oops!)

 

[GMofOilers]

Guenther was the big game hunter for Canada. Doesn't get much better at Juniors then scoring 2G 1A including the OT gold medal winning goal in a 3-2 game. What a huge game he had. Canada doesn't win it without him. Bedard in this game was pretty easily contained and walked to perimeter on most rushes. I figured 3 on 3 Bedard must be able to get something going, but no.

They dont even get to the Medal round without Bedard.....
And by medal round I mean, they would of went home after the quarter finals without him

 

[Ritchie Valens]

I was gassed last night. Literally laid down on the couch for a few minutes between the 3rd and OT, or so I told myself. Some cheering woke me up, saw Canada scored. Figured "that was quick...must have been 30 seconds or a minute in."

Rewind the pvr...7-ish minutes in. Slept right through the whole thing .

 

[brentashton]

I had to laugh when they were quoting Williams something "ya i took 4 Seattle players to make it easier on my club, although that didn't seem to stop them". lol

Was good to see the Czech program back up and running. If they would've had another one or two game breaking type of players up front they would've been a pretty damn good team overall.


If Yakupov had the IQ Bedard has he would've probably scored 40 goals in a season in the NHL by now.

World junior championship all stars and the Oilers:

1977 and 1978 Risto Siltanen
1978 Wayne Gretzky
1980 Reijo Ruotsolainen
1982 and 1983 Ilya Byakin
1983 Vladamire Ruzicka
1985 Esa Tikkanen
1986 Shayne Corson
1986 Igor Vyazmikin
1990 Jiri Slegr
1991 Martin Rucinksy
1994 David Vyborny
1997 Sergi Samsonov
2001 Jani Rita
2002 Micheal Cammalleri
2003 Joni Pitkanen
2004 Al Montoya
2010 Jordan Eberle
2012 Oscar Klefbom
2013 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
2015 Connor McDavid
2016 Jessi Puljujarvi

2021 Trevor Zegras.....(oops!)
2022 Jesper Wallstsdht..... (oops!)

Great list, thanks for pulling together. Al Montoya, lol.

 

[Messrules11]

OK, lets deep dive it. Against the Hardest tests Canada faced in the tournament Bedard wasn't exceptional. To wit in two games against Czechs he had 1G 1pt. He had zero in the gold medal match, held off the scoresheet, and couldn't even muster anything in 3 on 3 format which perfectly suits him.

Against US Bedard had a goal and an assist. 2pts but also in a high scoring game against an opponent that seems to have a lot of trouble defensively. Its one of the weaker US sides I'd seen.

So thats the 3 toughest games of tournament for Bedard and he has 3pts collectively in those 3 games. These are the competitive matches that most reflect what Bedard might look kike at a higher level of play. I'm not convinced, and never have been, that piling up pts against relegation level squads is the signpost of greatness and yet the vast majority of Bedards tournament production occurred in the two games against the weakest opponents he faced. Bedard had 13of his pts in those two games. Austria and Germany. He had a non legendary combined 10pts in the other 5 games.

Unfortunately for Bedard there are no weak sisters to this degree in the NHL.

But I think its reasonable to state that even a non touted Czech club was able to almost completely contain Bedard through two games. Shane Wright and Dylan Guenther were Canada's two most productive players in those two hard games against the Czechs. Guenther had 2G 2A in these games including the golden goal. Wright had 2G 1A in the two matches. Notably Guenther led the team and was Heroic in the Gold medal final scoring 2G, assisting on the other Canada goal and being involved in all of Canadas scoring plays. Bedard was involved in 0-0-0 in the gold medal match.

Good grief man, for a guy who said he didn’t watch the tournament to go off on Bedard is just ridiculous. Maybe watch the games because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Good grief man, for a guy who said he didn’t watch the tournament to go off on Bedard is just ridiculous. Maybe watch the games because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Good grief. I'm not going off on Bedard. I'm going off on the notion that he's some kind of Connor McDavid as expressed in the Bedard thread. Not sure how any of what I said above that you quoted is misleading. Just citing the numbers and I did watch the two Czech games and most of the US game.

 

[Messrules11]

Good grief. I'm not going off on Bedard. I'm going off on the notion that he's some kind of Connor McDavid as expressed in the Bedard thread. Not sure how any of what I said above that you quoted is misleading. Just citing the numbers and I did watch the two Czech games and most of the US game.

I’ll admit I haven’t read that thread at all. That said this is a 17yr old kid, led the tournament and will be an NHL star at some point. This isn’t Yamamoto at all, smaller guys can succeed, think St.Louis, Fleury, they were no where near this good at that age. And at 17 he isn’t done growing anyway.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I’ll admit I haven’t read that thread at all. That said this is a 17yr old kid, led the tournament and will be an NHL star at some point. This isn’t Yamamoto at all, smaller guys can succeed, think St.Louis, Fleury, they were no where near this good at that age. And at 17 he isn’t done growing anyway.

I'm not responsible for what other people write or the Yakupov or Yama comment which I did not make. You on the other hand did for some reason come at me for my comments without expanding even in decency where you disagreed with any of them.

Junior tournaments by and large do not generally equate to which players will be future superstars or "generational" players or McDavid calibre players. I do think Bedard could be around a PPG player in NHL. Maybe better. But nobody of course knows how his game will translate.

Bedard is exactly 17.5yrs old. Some weight gain can be expected but he's probably going to remain at his present height. At most an inch more. Unless he hasn't hit puberty, and I'm not saying that as a put down, I'm saying its the one foremost exception to rule.

What You Need to Know About Growth in Boys

Find out when boys stop growing, check out a table showing median heights by age, and discover when to talk to a doctor about growth delays.

www.healthline.com

 

[Messrules11]

I'm not responsible for what other people write or the Yakupov or Yama comment which I did not make. You on the other hand did for some reason come at me for my comments without expanding even in decency where you disagreed with any of them.

Junior tournaments by and large do not generally equate to which players will be future superstars or "generational" players or McDavid calibre players. I do think Bedard could be around a PPG player in NHL. Maybe better. But nobody of course knows how his game will translate.

Bedard is exactly 17.5yrs old. Some weight gain can be expected but he's probably going to remain at his present height. At most an inch more. Unless he hasn't hit puberty, and I'm not saying that as a put down, I'm saying its the one foremost exception to rule.

What You Need to Know About Growth in Boys

Find out when boys stop growing, check out a table showing median heights by age, and discover when to talk to a doctor about growth delays.

www.healthline.com

I came at you because we just won b2b golds and for some reason you are running Bedard.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I came at you because we just won b2b golds and for some reason you are running Bedard.

For the second time I'm not "running Bedard" Whatever that means.

I actually defended the Canadian team from undue criticism after the first loss to Czechs. It came pretty down the wire to that happening again.

Is it somehow wrong for me to be more thrilled with hometown hero Guenther than I was with Bedard in the gold medal match?

 

[Messrules11]

For the second time I'm not "running Bedard" Whatever that means.

I actually defended the Canadian team from undue criticism after the first loss to Czechs. It came pretty down the wire to that happening again.

Is it somehow wrong for me to be more thrilled with hometown hero Guenther than I was with Bedard in the gold medal match?

Just seemed odd to take shots on his production against certain opponents. I don’t recall a bad shift really, he led even when he didn’t score.

 

[duul]

Stankoven is listed as 5'7", but a deep dive on him led me to believe he is really 5'6".

Bedard is listed as 5'10". Now anyone with a pair of eyes can tell you he is an inch taller than Stankoven. He isn't anywhere near 5'10". He looks tiny on the ice.

He doesn't move like Stankoven either. Guys their size make it in the NHL if they can move like Stankoven can. Speedy, agile. Enough speed to burn defenders wide.

Bedard can not beat anyone wide. Czech's easily pushed him into the boards every time he skates up the ice with the puck. He feasted on relegation teams with players who will never sniff the NHL. Won't even sniff any of the top international leagues either.

He is crafty. He has an amazing shot. Reminds me of Yakupov. They play similarly, with Bedard being a significantly better passer and Yakupov having the faster feet.

Two small, stocky guys. Bedard being significantly smaller.

Unless he can start skating like Stankoven, he is going to be like a litany of other players who were able to dominate junior hockey due to a specific skillset that doesn't translate to the NHL whatsoever.

Nobody as small and as slow as him is making an impact at the NHL level. The Czech junior team that may have 2-3 NHL bound players on it was able to skate with him and turn him into a nothing player when the going got tough.

I like his game, don't think I'm slandering him for no good reason. I've watched all his hilites 10x over to see that incredible shot of his. I don't see how you can watch this tournament, at least the games against real opposition, and think he is anywhere near becoming a superstar level player. He isn't even in the Eichel/Matthews tier of player for my money. Not big, fast, or strong enough to ever get there.

I truly believe Stankoven has more potential to end up as a good player in the show.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just seemed odd to take shots on his production against certain opponents. I don’t recall a bad shift really, he led even when he didn’t score.

It seemed odder for posters on this board to assume he's a generational McDavid.. Thats underselling McDavid by lightyears. Thats my horse in the race, which I explained.

Nothing odd about looking at what contributions are against good or bad opponents. Bedards play against best possible opponents is what will most translate to the challenges of the NHL.

To wit the Czechs gave Bedard all kinds of problems and they pretty much shut him down. His attempts to go wide weren't even close. He was being crashed into the back boards.

Being that this is hockey futures board whats wrong with looking at games or results that are most translatable, i.e. harder opponents. Because the NHL is hard.