Prospect Info: With the 9th Overall Pick the New York Rangers Select Vitali Kravtsov

[Kakko]

Well, the photo that shows up on his Stories, says Приняли как дома, which means something like "Feels like home"

It's also tagged in Chelyabinsk, and I somewhat doubt he's spoofing his IP

 

[kovazub94]

Well, the photo that shows up on his Stories, says Приняли как дома, which means something like "Feels like home"

I think there it meant “organized welcome back party like only they can at home”.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Not me. I think there would be advantages for the team to get his strength training and nutrition under their control. That’s balanced out by not having an 18 year old learning a new culture while riding buses. For every positive of one option, there’s a positive of another.

Is this area of his game a problem? Why not the same for Lundkvist?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Buchnevich never really had the same frame Kravtsov has. The majority of Russian players in the KHL are doing fine when it comes to nutrition and strength

Exactly. He was like 156 pounds when drafted or something like that. Kravtsov’s weight is not the problem that Buchnevich’s was.

No one flagged it as a problem pre-draft. Why is it now? It’s not.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Exactly. He was like 156 pounds when drafted or something like that. Kravtsov’s weight is not the problem that Buchnevich’s was.

No one flagged it as a problem pre-draft. Why is it now? It’s not.

Because people severely overrate American quality of coaching, nutrition etc. I also think people severely overrate the influence a big team like the Rangers has outside of NY. I hear Ranger fans say that money isn't an issue and the Rangers are a team everyone wants to work for, but that's simply not the case. Our fandom blinds us. Not every player wants to play for the Rangers. Not every coach, physician, nutritionist etc ends up working for the Rangers because we have money and are an original six franchise.

America isn't the best at everything

That said, Kravtsov will be playing for a KHL team and things have improved drastically in the last 10 years. I don't think nutrition and coaching is a problem in the KHL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Is this area of his game a problem? Why not the same for Lundkvist?

Yeah. Bring him over too! He needs to learn the language and adjust to the smaller ice

 

[Tawnos]

Is this area of his game a problem? Why not the same for Lundkvist?

Its not a problem, but you better believe the organization has some concern about problems being addressed if or when they emerge.

Lunqkvist is considered several years away. Kravtsov will be here one way or another next season.

Also, Swedish players generally have no trouble adjusting and most of them already know English to some extent.

See both sides. There really isnt a right or a wrong here.

 

[Tawnos]

@Amazing Kreiderman its not about quality, but control.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

@Amazing Kreiderman its not about quality, but control.

But why the need to control it?

 

[Tawnos]

But why the need to control it?

To be more responsive to things that might crop up that would affect his NHL game. When I talk about Buchnevich's conditioning, I'm not talking about Kravtsov having the same issue. I'm talking about how Buchnevich was unprepared for the NHL because the potential issue wasn't addresssed in the KHL. It was no problem there, so no need to address it.

I know the KHL has made a lot of changes, but when you are the Rangers organization and you have what happened with Cherepanov combined with what happened with Buchnevich, you get a picture that appears like teams over there don't pay as close attention to this kind of stuff as the Rangers do. Maybe its wrong, but it is an understandable conclusion.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

To be more responsive to things that might crop up that would affect his NHL game. When I talk about Buchnevich's conditioning, I'm not talking about Kravtsov having the same issue. I'm talking about how Buchnevich was unprepared for the NHL because the potential issue wasn't addresssed in the KHL. It was no problem there, so no need to address it.

I know the KHL has made a lot of changes, but when you are the Rangers organization and you have what happened with Cherepanov combined with what happened with Buchnevich, you get a picture that appears like teams over there don't pay as close attention to this kind of stuff as the Rangers do. Maybe its wrong, but it is an understandable conclusion.

I understand where the "fear" is coming from. But there is more than enough evidence to make a case for Kravtsov developing just fine in the KHL. I just think people have unrealistic expectations of an 18-year old winger coming over from Russia and developing just fine. You can count the comparables that worked out, on one hand. That's what worries me.

 

[Edge]

Because people severely overrate American quality of coaching, nutrition etc. I also think people severely overrate the influence a big team like the Rangers has outside of NY. I hear Ranger fans say that money isn't an issue and the Rangers are a team everyone wants to work for, but that's simply not the case. Our fandom blinds us. Not every player wants to play for the Rangers. Not every coach, physician, nutritionist etc ends up working for the Rangers because we have money and are an original six franchise.

America isn't the best at everything

That said, Kravtsov will be playing for a KHL team and things have improved drastically in the last 10 years. I don't think nutrition and coaching is a problem in the KHL.

At the risk turning this into a European vs. North America debate, I think there are few statements to clarify:

It's not that American coaching and nutrition is better, it's what type of training is more aligned with what NHL teams are looking for --- in this case, the Rangers. The location is a secondary issue. If the league were based in Africa or South America, the basic premise would remain the same. Teams want easier access and more direct influence of how they want to develop prospects who will play for their team.

The Rangers, like a few other teams, have a very large influence in the hockey world --- as evidenced by the people who follow this team from thousands of miles away, on different continents. Does that mean that everyone wants to go to NY or a big city? No, of course not. But there's not denying that NY has some of the better odds of being able to attract talent. That has nothing to do with fandom, that's based on precedent.

This issue has nothing to do with America being the best at everything. It's strictly business.

Teams view young prospects as their investments. As such, there is often a desire to have as much influence over and access to that investment as possible.

 

[kovazub94]

For some reason @Edge post turning it into business format discussion made me think about vertical integration: KHL is an outside supplier, AHL is part of organization's vertical structure (Kravtsov is a product or a component of a larger product - NYR team).

 

[EdJovanovski]

Bring him over

 

[CasusBelli]

For some reason @Edge post turning it into business format discussion made me think about vertical integration: KHL is an outside supplier, AHL is part of organization's vertical structure (Kravtsov is a product or a component of a larger product - NYR team).

And we're looking to minimize lead times, subject to six-sigma prospect development quality constraints?

 

[kovazub94]

And we're looking to minimize lead times, subject to six-sigma quality constraints?

black belt? you sound like one. ; )

 

[CasusBelli]

black belt? you sound like one. ; )

Not at those prices!

 

[Edge]

For some reason @Edge post turning it into business format discussion made me think about vertical integration: KHL is an outside supplier, AHL is part of organization's vertical structure (Kravtsov is a product or a component of a larger product - NYR team).

In many ways, that's fairly close to how some organizations approach --- though there are many factors at work.

Generally speaking, the Rangers seem to like to get kids into their system sooner. It's not necessarily that they think another organization is going to ruin the player, so much as they have a preference to get prospects integrated with their systems, become familiar with their people, and for the organization to become more familiar with the player as well.

Other organizations, be it in the KHL or elsewhere, are going to have their own agendas, their own politics and their own preferences. They don't have a vested interest in the Rangers long-term plans. Ideally, you have a situation where goals align for a long enough period of time that it works. However, that's not always the case.

The Rangers might not have any problem with Kravtsov going back for another season. It's not to imply that any concerns exist, or that they worry about the KHL. I will say that if it was entirely their decision, I think they'd at least lean toward him staying.

 

[Levitate]

Because people severely overrate American quality of coaching, nutrition etc. I also think people severely overrate the influence a big team like the Rangers has outside of NY. I hear Ranger fans say that money isn't an issue and the Rangers are a team everyone wants to work for, but that's simply not the case. Our fandom blinds us. Not every player wants to play for the Rangers. Not every coach, physician, nutritionist etc ends up working for the Rangers because we have money and are an original six franchise.

America isn't the best at everything

That said, Kravtsov will be playing for a KHL team and things have improved drastically in the last 10 years. I don't think nutrition and coaching is a problem in the KHL.

I agree on nutrition and all but I think you're missing the mark on coaching, whether we're talking about strength training or hockey coaching. Regardless of how good it is, the KHL is just a different league. Different style, different emphasis on things.

Does the KHL train its players for the amount of board work that goes in the NHL? To play the faster style required on the smaller ice surface? Tactics and schemes that go with that?

I doubt it. They train their players to play the style of hockey that's successful in the KHL, why would they not?

IMO it's not about the NHL training being "better" overall, just better for what a player has to deal with when breaking into the NHL. That's what the AHL is good for...helping players make that transition.

That all said, I don't think it's really something I care about with Kravtsov. He's lanky looking but seems to have a good frame and I'm sure the Rangers will talk to him about things to work on and get stronger at even if he goes back to the KHL. It's 1 year, he can hopefully take more of a responsibility on his team there, get more icetime and improve his skills, then train up hard again next summer for Rangers training camp in 2019. I'm personally more interested in seeing him develop and apply his skills and become a top offensive player. Getting stronger will come regardless of where he is.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The biggest item, as Edge points out, is control. The Rangers want as much as possible over how Kravtsov is developed.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If the Rangers want control, they are as dumb as can be. They are not geniuses that other teams aren't. There's a very long history with Russian forwards busting in NA. Almost all do. If Kravtsov made it, he would be one of the few exceptions. For all the control they'd get, they'd likely get a lesser product of hockey.

And for all the claims that Buchnevich struggled with this or that during his rookie season, one thing he didn't struggle with is playing hockey well. Thats because he was developed well in his home country. Swedes develop in the SHL, Finns in Liiga, Americans in USHL and College Hockey, Russians in the KHL, Canadians in the CHL. Its not a hard formula. Players usually develop best in their own country.

 

[kovazub94]

...

Does the KHL train its players for the amount of board work that goes in the NHL? To play the faster style required on the smaller ice surface? Tactics and schemes that go with that?

I doubt it. They train their players to play the style of hockey that's successful in the KHL, why would they not?

IMO it's not about the NHL training being "better" overall, just better for what a player has to deal with when breaking into the NHL. That's what the AHL is good for...helping players make that transition.

I think we finally are getting somewhere with this (if we ignore an aspect or a benefit of allowing young players to mature at home).

To me the real difference in developing in KHL vs. AHL is that KHL is better in allowing skilled players to develop their skills with the puck. Though hockey styles have been merging for decades already, KHL's style still puts more emphasis on puck skills and control more than in NA. Board work, seeing better plays on the smaller surface faster, etc obviously goes to the AHL.

 

[Fvital92]

If the Rangers want control, they are as dumb as can be. They are not geniuses that other teams aren't. There's a very long history with Russian forwards busting in NA. Almost all do. If Kravtsov made it, he would be one of the few exceptions. For all the control they'd get, they'd likely get a lesser product of hockey.

And for all the claims that Buchnevich struggled with this or that during his rookie season, one thing he didn't struggle with is playing hockey well. Thats because he was developed well in his home country. Swedes develop in the SHL, Finns in Liiga, Americans in USHL and College Hockey, Russians in the KHL, Canadians in the CHL. Its not a hard formula. Players usually develop best in their own country.

I'm not saying they are genius, but if the management don't think they know better than others they should be fired.

 

[romba]

I think we finally are getting somewhere with this (if we ignore an aspect or a benefit of allowing young players to mature at home).

To me the real difference in developing in KHL vs. AHL is that KHL is better in allowing skilled players to develop their skills with the puck. Though hockey styles have been merging for decades already, KHL's style still puts more emphasis on puck skills and control more than in NA. Board work, seeing better plays on the smaller surface faster, etc obviously goes to the AHL.

Yup. Don’t want to stunt the skills to focus too much on grit and board work, and vice versa. More comfortable at home but less NYR control over seas. Would have higher skilled linemates in KHL versus AHL, but would play with potentially future linemates in AHL vs KHL to develop chemistry with. Lots of pros for both no matter how you view it. Tough decision.


At the end I personally would leave him in the KHL for one more year, but I believe the control factor is too enticing and the Rangers will bring him stateside.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not saying they are genius, but if the management don't think they know better than others they should be fired.

I'm talking about other teams, not general observers of hockey.