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Prospect Info: With the 9th Overall Pick the New York Rangers Select Vitali Kravtsov

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Levitate said:
not disputing that Kravs has more talent than Buch, but I still think people underrate how much talent Buch has. If the new coaching staff can develop him right I think he's a 60 point player. I think he's more skilled than Zucc
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Which would make him an excellent 2nd line RW. Having Kravtsov come in strengthens that position, especially he reaches his ceiling.
 
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offdacrossbar said:
kotkaniemis skating isnt a strength. how can i say this, he's um...not fast.

kravstov is a smoother, faster, more natural skater. anyone saying his skating is at all not a strength is wrong.

kotkaniemis skating is average
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This. Kravstov’s skating looks awkward because of his height. It’ll look more natural as he fills in, but will always look strange
 
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9darter said:
I asked this yesterday but it got lost in the server hickups:
In general terms, what is the historical record for how very young (18-19) Russians have fared in the AHL during the last decade or so?
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I don't have a full list, but its a really short list of the best who played in the AHL and were helped by the AHL. Kucherov and Radulov each played between 1/3 and 1/4 of a season in the AHL. The rest of the good Russian forwards, Taransenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Gusev, Kaprizov, Buchnevich all developed in Russia. Dadonov actually did spend some time in the AHL, but he didn't do very well there, and had to go back to Russia to re-start his development.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
I don't have a full list, but its a really short list of the best who played in the AHL and were helped by the AHL. Kucherov and Radulov each played between 1/3 and 1/4 of a season in the AHL. The rest of the good Russian forwards, Taransenko, Kuznetsov, Panarin, Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Gusev, Kaprizov, Buchnevich all developed in Russia. Dadonov actually did spend some time in the AHL, but he didn't do very well there, and had to go back to Russia to re-start his development.
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Thanks, but Kucherov and Radulov were both over 20 before playing in the AHL (they both played Canadian junior).
I'm asking about the 18 and 19 year olds that are allowed to play in the AHL because they haven't played Canadian junior, i.e. directly from Russia to the AHL. Are there any good examples at all?
 
Levitate said:
not disputing that Kravs has more talent than Buch, but I still think people underrate how much talent Buch has. If the new coaching staff can develop him right I think he's a 60 point player. I think he's more skilled than Zucc
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No one denies his skill.. It's everything else.

If Buch had the Honey Badger mentality and vision of Zucc he would be a top line player.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
100% KHL.

Learn from past team's mistakes. Russians, especially forwards, do not develop well in North America. If there's development left, he should be in the KHL. I really hope they don't ruin this kid and put him in the AHL like Kostin or Guryanov.
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I dunno that it's really a hard and fast rule, it depends on the player imo. It's entirely possible Kostin or Guryanov just aren't as good and/or ready for NA hockey as they're hyped up to be.

I'd be fine with the KHL probably, my main concern would be him getting light usage in a year he should be pushing himself. KHL teams tend to play the vets, and also tend to neglect players if they know they're leaving for the NHL shortly, which Kravstov has already not been shy about.

If he's going to get the forward version of the treatment Shetsyorkin has been getting, I'd rather him be in Hartford getting top minutes with future teammates and getting acclimated to the small ice. If he's going to get the minutes he earns in the KHL, then I have no issue with him staying another year.
 
offdacrossbar said:
kotkaniemis skating isnt a strength. how can i say this, he's um...not fast.

kravstov is a smoother, faster, more natural skater. anyone saying his skating is at all not a strength is wrong.

kotkaniemis skating is average
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Right, Kravtsov isn't a burner. But he's very smooth. He has a really beautiful stride for a guy his size, actually. He's not super quick, but from what I have seen, he certainly isn't slow at all.
 
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haveandare said:
I dunno that it's really a hard and fast rule, it depends on the player imo. It's entirely possible Kostin or Guryanov just aren't as good and/or ready for NA hockey as they're hyped up to be.

I'd be fine with the KHL probably, my main concern would be him getting light usage in a year he should be pushing himself. KHL teams tend to play the vets, and also tend to neglect players if they know they're leaving for the NHL shortly, which Kravstov has already not been shy about.

If he's going to get the forward version of the treatment Shetsyorkin has been getting, I'd rather him be in Hartford getting top minutes with future teammates and getting acclimated to the small ice. If he's going to get the minutes he earns in the KHL, then I have no issue with him staying another year.
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Usually hard and fast rules are dumb, but the numbers are actually staggering with Russian forwards that we'd be stupid to mess with the percentages here.

Traktor is not a big team. They were a surprise team in the KHL this year. They can not afford to bring in new stars every year, like SKA. Its much more likely that his situation will be closer to Buchnevich's with Severstal than Shestyorkin's with SKA where his team needs him to develop into one of their best players for them to be able to keep up.

And if for some reason he doesn't get a lot of playing time, this discussion can be had again in a year. Besides, the rules state he cannot buyout the final year of his contract at this point. So unless he's already done that in anticipation of the draft or there's some new rule that no one knows about, he's playing with Traktor this upcoming season.
 
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9darter said:
Thanks, but Kucherov and Radulov were both over 20 before playing in the AHL (they both played Canadian junior).
I'm asking about the 18 and 19 year olds that are allowed to play in the AHL because they haven't played Canadian junior, i.e. directly from Russia to the AHL. Are there any good examples at all?
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I found a list. Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season

Of recent players, the list is filled with mostly busts, except for Anisimov and Voynov.
 
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Levitate said:
Eh, Kreider wasn't a reach around there as I recall. Schroeder was just dropping a bit and had the "one of the most skilled players in the draft except for his size!" tag which got a lot of people excited. Kreider's skating, size, and raw potential was well known at that point and he was projected as a 1st rounder.

I bet Wahlstrom is gonna be good but IMO the difference if they both do well is Wahlstrom being a complementary goal scorer (as in, he'll score a lot of goals but he's not going to be the primary puck possesssion driver on his line) and Kravtsov being a dominant puck control guy who is more well rounded and creates opportunities for everyone (it's a lazy comparison but like Kuznetsov).

Both are valuable, both are the kind of players the Rangers need, but they're different types. If Kravtsov really develops well then I think we'll be really happy with him and think the pick was a good one even if the Rangers passed on Wahlstrom.
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90s-cartoon-1990s-rRxsiL3Vl3YA0
 
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You know who I see as a bit of a comparable who isn’t Russian? Filip Forsberg. Lanky winger with elite hands and a plus shot who knows how to use his frame to protect the puck and create havoc; I think Kravstov is a better skater than Forsberg was when he was drafted, though.
 
Figured I'd post it in here too.



Gorton is expected to meet with Kravstov's agent by the end of the week to plan out the best course for Vitaly
 
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Kshahdoo said:
Btw, an intresting discussion about safer pick vs more upside. Another Rangers' player was involved.
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Spot on.

I remember in the moments in after the Kreider pick one poster used the "facepalm emoji".

That pretty much encapsulated the consensus early on.
 
Funny, I can’t say I’ve ever had a single concern about Kravtsov’s skating.

Right now he kind of looks like a crane out there, but he covers a lot of ground and has a very effortless, smooth stride.

I don’t think he’s a blow by defenseman type so much as he smoothly glides around people and then pushes forward in bursts when he gets to openings.

If anything he makes it look so easy that it appears he isn’t even trying — though he is.

Sometimes I feel like we’ve become so fixated on “skating” that we wrongly visualize the concept as exclusively referring to “speed.”

In reality, it’s about mobility and agility and turning. It’s about being able to maneuver and remain in control of a situation.

I’m that regard, Kravtsov is just fine.

I think strength is one of the areas he needs to focus on, because that’s a big reason he’s getting pushed off pucks. If he can add strengths, eventually 20-25 pounds, and maintain the mobility, that will be an strong combination.
 
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haveandare said:
I would have been happy with Wahlstrom too, but the facts are he's a big kid who plays in a junior league on a team with a bunch of other top, top players for their age bracket. Kravstov is also a big kid but playing in a men's league, and as far as I can tell (please do correct me if I'm wrong), he's not playing with the same amount of league relative talent Wahlstrom has been.

For those reasons, Kravstov imo is a safer bet to reach a solid level of NHL play whereas Wahlstrom has more red flags that we've seen cause issues for other prospects in the past - dominating against kids but can't translate against men, taking advantage of being bigger than most in a junior league, taking advantage of being surrounded by incredible talent, etc.
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I've been saying all season, and really back to last season, that Wahlstrom was overrated. The guy can really shoot the puck, but the rest of his game is rough.

He's not even that good of a goal scorer. He's not Ovechkin, not Laine. He could be a 30-35 goal guy in the NHL, but I'm also not sure he has enough else to his game to not be like a Pirri type who shoots really well, but does nothing else at an NHL level.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
I've been saying all season, and really back to last season, that Wahlstrom was overrated. The guy can really shoot the puck, but the rest of his game is rough.

He's not even that good of a goal scorer. He's not Ovechkin, not Laine. He could be a 30-35 goal guy in the NHL, but I'm also not sure he has enough else to his game to not be like a Pirri type who shoots really well, but does nothing else at an NHL level.
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Would you compare him so to JVR?
 
Edge said:
Funny, I can’t say I’ve ever had a single concern about Kravtsov’s skating.

Right now he kind of looks like a crane out there, but he covers a lot of ground and has a very effortless, smooth stride.

I don’t think he’s a blow by defenseman type so much as he bait smoothly glides around people and then pushes forward in bursts when he gets to openings.

If anything he makes it look so easy that it appears he isn’t even trying — though he is.

Sometimes I feel like we’ve become so fixated on “skating” that we wrongly visualize the concept as exclusively referring to “speed.”

In reality, it’s about mobility and agility and turning. It’s about being able to maneuver and remain in control of a situation.

I’m that regard, Kravtsov is just fine.

I think strength is one of the areas he needs to focus on, because that’s a big reason he’s getting pushed off pucks. If he can add strengths, eventually 20-25 pounds, and maintain the mobility, that will be an strong combination.
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Well said. Speed is merely a component of skating.

"Skating" is the full package.
 
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