Prospect Info: With the 9th Overall Pick the New York Rangers Select Vitali Kravtsov

[Alluckks]

disagree.

kids playing with men in europe are developing. period.

they develop in the K, SEL, extra liga, etc and they come here.

question is where should they be ? there or here. more and more players are staying there and the coming here after they are "developed".

either way they are developing, and thus that league they are playing in is a developmental feeder for the nhl.

end of that story.

Players develop in the NHL too...

I have never heard of a team intentionally sending a player to KHL to develop

It is an inferior league to the NHL, and he can develop there, but it is not a development league the way that the AHL is

 

[Irishguy42]

Players develop in the NHL too...

I have never heard of a team intentionally sending a player to KHL to develop

It is an inferior league to the NHL, and he can develop there, but it is not a development league the way that the AHL is

AHL isn't even a pure development league.

 

[Alluckks]

Why was Denisenko rated and taken lower? You make him sound like a better prospect.

Denisenko is more of a facilitator and Kravstov is more of a finisher. We already have a better and more developed version of Denisenko in Chytil, imo

 

[Alluckks]

AHL isn't even a pure development league.

That is true, but it functions more as a developmental league than nearly any other highly ranked league we know of (KHL, SHL, etc.) - it is because the NHL teams have substantially more control over what happens on these teams, it is happening right in their backyard, it is easier for the teams to control their conditioning, their health evaluations, bring the player up for a game or send them back down at will, etc. It is intrinsically tied to development of prospects as well as the rehabilitation of other players. Those characteristics simply do not exist to the same degree in the KHL, or other leagues overseas for that matter.

 

[RangerBoy]

That goes without saying. But many were hoping Hextall could package a draft pick and one of his good-but-not-great prospects (Nic Aube-Kubel?) to move up in the draft and select a big-time scoring prospect such as Filip Zadina (drafted sixth by Detroit), Vitali Kravtsov (Rangers, ninth), or Wahlstrom (Isles, 11th) — or one of the highly regarded defensemen.

Ron Hextall a little frustrated he couldn't make big move during draft

 

[Polar Bear]

Ron Hextall a little frustrated he couldn't make big move during draft

Philly was long rumored to have the hots for Kravstov.

 

[kovazub94]

Ron Hextall a little frustrated he couldn't make big move during draft

Taking Dobson out of equation because of position, mentioning Flyers made me realize that this board would likely be less upset if instead of Kravtsov Gorton chose Farabee over Wahlstrom. True?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Taking Dobson out of equation because of position, mentioning Flyers made me realize that this board would likely be less upset if instead of Kravtsov Gorton chose Farabee over Wahlstrom. True?

I'd be personally be upset, but Farabee had a good amount of support here

 

[Ghost of jas]

Taking Dobson out of equation because of position, mentioning Flyers made me realize that this board would likely be less upset if instead of Kravtsov Gorton chose Farabee over Wahlstrom. True?

I would be full-throated angry if that happened. OTOH, I was l thrilled with Kravtsov.

 

[Edge]

I think he started exhibiting this consistently in the second half of the season. Likely what sold NYR to make him their choice at 9.

It was better yes.

I’m not arguing the selection. I’m arguing the rocket ship we’re strapping to him because we took him 9th.

I would almost be willing to gaurantee if we grabbed him at 15, we don’t have him leap frogging some of our other prospects.

For me, that’s not an argument against or an endorsement for his ability. That’s us saying, “Well he’s 9th, therefore he’s our new #1 or #2 prospect.”

And he very well could be there in a year or even a few months. But if he wasn’t going to be there a month ago, the Rangers drafting him shouldn’t be the reason he’s there now. And having seen this board for two decades, I think the smart money is on that’s where the majority of the votes are coming from.

 

[kovazub94]

It was better yes.

I’m not arguing the selection. I’m arguing the rocket ship we’re strapping to him because we took him 9th.

I would almost be willing to gaurantee if we grabbed him at 15, we don’t have him leap frogging some of our other prospects.

For me, that’s not an argument against or an endorsement for his ability. That’s us saying, “Well he’s 9th, therefore he’s our new #1 or #2 prospect.”

And he very well could be there in a year or even a few months. But if he wasn’t going to be there a month ago, the Rangers drafting him shouldn’t be the reason he’s there now. And having seen this board for two decades, I think the smart money is on that’s where the majority of the votes are coming from.

I hear you but I’m not going to give it a second thought if he’s 1, 2, 3 or 4, I just love this pick, and for that matter, all three first round picks the Rangers made. Their upside relative to where they are already makes all of them my top 6-7 prospects and I typically prefer to stick with more proven draftees - someone with at least a year of afterdraft performance.

 

[Edge]

I hear you but I’m not going to give it a second thought if he’s 1, 2, 3 or 4, I just love this pick, and for that matter, all three first round picks the Rangers made. Their upside relative to where they are already makes all of them my top 6-7 prospects and I typically prefer to stick with more proven draftees - someone with at least a year of afterdraft performance.

And that’s the key - upside.

If we had some crappy prospects, the upside is going to trump that.

But we have some VERY good prospects who have the upside and a longer track record of results.

I’m not knocking Kravtsov. I’m merely offering a reminder that what Shestyorkin, Chytil and Andersson did last year, on top of their upside, was among the top tier of all NHL prospects.

We’re talking players who were voted among the top 10 to 20 post-draft prospects in the entire world.

I like Kravtsov. But you gotta play some serious hockey to leapfrog those guys. And I don’t think he’s there — YET.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Taking Dobson out of equation because of position, mentioning Flyers made me realize that this board would likely be less upset if instead of Kravtsov Gorton chose Farabee over Wahlstrom. True?

I would have been upset, but I think the majority of fans would be okay with it because the US NTDP gets a lot of attention, unlike the European leagues. Familiarity with names is what made most fans fall in love with Wahlstrom. Not what he did on the ice.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well, I assume everyone is aware how happy I was when his name was called. I think this has the potential to be the best pick in the last 15 years. I understand the sentiment regarding Wahlstrom and I would have been happpy with him as well. It's just personal preference at this point. Kravtsov has outperformed Kuznetsov so far and I am exciting to see him in the KHL again this season.

I don't think its a good idea to compare late birthday picks to early year birthday picks. They are on completely different draft calendars.

I don't think that's even possible, Edge. He will have to buy out his contract, but the deadline to do that was in April.

I've posted this two or three times by now, so I swear some of you guys are just ignoring me , but the deadline is 18 months prior to the contract ending, so it was January, not April. Its a new rule in the KHL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't think its a good idea to compare late birthday picks to early year birthday picks. They are on completely different draft calendars.

Yeah. I guess it's also unfair to compare a professional pre-draft player who already represented his country at senior level to someone who has only played against kids all year.

Unless you're talking about Kuznetsov. Well, the record Kravtsov broke when he just turned 18 was set by Kuznetsov right before he turned 20.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

For his development would it be better to get him to AHL next year or have him play one more year in KHL there?

Definitely the KHL. Do teams ever learn? Russians develop best in their home country, not NA.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I've posted this two or three times by now, so I swear some of you guys are just ignoring me , but the deadline is 18 months prior to the contract ending, so it was January, not April. Its a new rule in the KHL.

For some reason I keep thinking it's 12 months prior to the last season of the contract ending.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He played center prior to moving onto the KHL.

Might be back there in the future, but he's a winger as a draftee.

Just in case people don't know what you are talking about, Gordie Clark said this in his news conference.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Definitely the KHL. Do teams ever learn? Russians develop best in their home country, not NA.

I get not sending them to the CHL, but I feel like Kostin did pretty well for himself in the AHL, although I feel like that scenario is on the rare side. I also don’t have a preference to where he plays this season, I think the AHL and KHL both have their pros and cons with regards to his development

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Thoughts on KHL vs AHL for him next year if he were open to either? Hartford could be decent finally and he could get heavy minutes on the smaller ice

100% KHL.

Learn from past team's mistakes. Russians, especially forwards, do not develop well in North America. If there's development left, he should be in the KHL. I really hope they don't ruin this kid and put him in the AHL like Kostin or Guryanov.

 

[bl02]

Definitely the KHL. Do teams ever learn? Russians develop best in their home country, not NA.

I hope he stays in the KHL as well. Just hope he isn't jerked around or worst case scenario convinced to stay longer (albeit it seems that his intent is to play in north america sooner rather than later)

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

My only concern with him staying in the KHL is him being pressured/forced/coerced/manipulated into signing a new contract that he'd be forced to buy out.

Kravtsov has made clear that he wants to play in the NHL. He said its his dream. Why would he all of a sudden abandon that dream?

And look, if he doesn't think he's ready after one more year, why do we need to force him to be here? Shouldn't we want what's best for his development? If he decides to sign for another few years in the KHL after this year, its not as much of an issue as some will make it out to be. He's not buying out any contract. Thats happened like once or twice by anyone in recent years. Fans always talk about it, but it almost never happens.

Was Buchnevich developing for 3 years in the KHL such a bad thing? We are rebuilding. Let the kid develop at his own pace. There's no reason to force anything with Kravtsov or Lundkvist. Leave them in their own leagues, let them dominate, and bring them over when we know they are NHL ready.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah. I guess it's also unfair to compare a professional pre-draft player who already represented his country at senior level to someone who has only played against kids all year.

Unless you're talking about Kuznetsov. Well, the record Kravtsov broke when he just turned 18 was set by Kuznetsov right before he turned 20.

I'm saying that Kravtsov is a December birthday, and Kuznetsov a May birthday. Kravtsov is a full hockey year ahead of Kuznetsov playing in the KHL before he was drafted. I heard Gordie Clark start saying similar things in his post draft press conference, and I thought it was deceiving.

The only Russian of the highly-ranked ones in recent years to be drafted from the KHL as a late birthday is Tarasenko. If there's anyone we should be comparing him to with regard to production for pre-draft, and then this upcoming season, it should be Tarasenko.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I am glad we did not trade up to to get Zadina, I have a feeling Kravtsov is going to be a better player.

Clark also said Kravtsov is a better playmaker than scorer similar to JT Miller.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I get not sending them to the CHL, but I feel like Kostin did pretty well for himself in the AHL, although I feel like that scenario is on the rare side. I also don’t have a preference to where he plays this season, I think the AHL and KHL both have their pros and cons with regards to his development

28 points in 67 games? Its kind of underwhelming. CHL is worse case scenario. I think a pro league is always better than Junior, but I also think there's a cultural aspect to these kids coming over. Even Chytil, who isn't Russian, said there's big cultural differences. He's going to have to transition eventually, but I always think its better when they are more mature.

Imagine trying to move to a country at 18 with a drastically different culture and living up to expectations of being the future of a high-profile professional sports team? Its a lot. Most 18 year olds are just trying to navigate college. I think most are a lot more ready for the change at 22, 23. There's an inordinate amount of Russian busts from NA juniors. Its not all hockey in my opinion, I think some of it is how they can mentally handle the new lifestyle.

And I'm not saying wait 3, 4 years, but at minimum, give it one full season before we start considering changing the team he'll play for.