Prospect Info: With the #24 pick, the Wild select (D) Filip Johansson (Allsvenskan, Leksands IF)

[Wabit]

I don't believe there is as again... You have no idea what the market for Nino was... only speculation.

The market for Nino was about the same as it was for Scandella, garbage. What kind of return would Saad have gotten CHI after last season? That's where Nino's value was when he was traded.

 

[Bazeek]

I object to fans blasting GM's as being clueless when they themselves are clueless about what goes into these transactions.
Why is Nino a bad trade? Because fans think he should have gotten more... Based on what? Their own speculation and nothing based in fact.
That's what bothers me and I'm well aware I'm swimming upstream here but I really don't care.

So "blasting the GM as clueless" is out. What would you consider acceptable criticism?

I haven't personally come to a firm conclusion on the Nino trade, but I do have a firm idea of what I'd consider to be a "success" there and am increasingly skeptical that those conditions will be met. Is that fair of me or do I need to trick Daryl Katz into thinking my dad was an equipment manager for the '84 Oilers so I can get some credentials?

 

[DANOZ28]

common sense is sometimes missing from decisions gm's make. near the end gmcf was trying to save his job instead of doing whats best for the team. fenton isn't making common sense too me. you are a person who wants to believe our gm is the best & doing everything right and good for you. i like to analyze things and when they don't make sense i bark.

 

[Ban Hammered]

So if we can't talk about moves that the GM makes, because we've never been GM's... and we can't talk about coaches decisions, because we've never been coaches... and we can't talk about players' performances, because we've never played at their level... um... so... yeah...

If that's what you want to think... Sure.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If the market for Nino was "Victor Rask or worse" then my opinion is that I don't think we should've sold on Nino at that time. If that's blasting Fenton for being clueless, then I guess that's what it is.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

common sense is sometimes missing from decisions gm's make. near the end gmcf was trying to save his job instead of doing whats best for the team. fenton isn't making common sense too me. you are a person who wants to believe our gm is the best & doing everything right and good for you. i like to analyze things and when they don't make sense i bark.

what doesnt make sense about nino for rask?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If that's what you want to think... Sure.

Sweet. Lots of dialogue going to be going on here then.

 

[Ban Hammered]

So "blasting the GM as clueless" is out. What would you consider acceptable criticism?

I haven't personally come to a firm conclusion on the Nino trade, but I do have a firm idea of what I'd consider to be a "success" there and am increasingly skeptical that those conditions will be met. Is that fair of me or do I need to trick Daryl Katz into thinking my dad was an equipment manager for the '84 Oilers so I can get some credentials?

I give up

 

[Victorious Secret]

So if we can't talk about moves that the GM makes, because we've never been GM's... and we can't talk about coaches decisions, because we've never been coaches... and we can't talk about players' performances, because we've never played at their level... um... so... yeah...

Well, I make popcorn like a mamba jamma. Don't get me started on Xcel Concessions....

 

[2Pair]

Well, I make popcorn like a mamba jamma. Don't get me started on Xcel Concessions....

This also makes you an expert on Nate Prosser

 

[2Pair]

what doesnt make sense about nino for rask?

the value

 

[DeagleJenkins]

the value

personal value of nino or actual value of a slumping LW3/4? he was behind zucker and greenway, wasnt doing a lot but since he did well in the past we say his value is up or do you have other reasons for his value being higher? does nino being older and cost more make him more or less valuable?

 

[2Pair]

The market for Nino was about the same as it was for Scandella, garbage. What kind of return would Saad have gotten CHI after last season? That's where Nino's value was when he was traded.

With this logic, it makes the value of Ennis and Rask through the roof.

 

[Ban Hammered]

If the market for Nino was "Victor Rask or worse" then my opinion is that I don't think we should've sold on Nino at that time. If that's blasting Fenton for being clueless, then I guess that's what it is.

And if the market was predicated on not wanting to have a player of his cap hit playing on the 4th line because he's been out performed by the other LW's on the squad? How many fans have been screaming for move for months? How many wanted that move to be for Nino or Coyle?
It's like I said at the time... Fans: DO SOMETHING!!!! GM: Does something... Fans: NOT THAT!!!!!!!!
If Nino were still here and continuing his poor play here (and there is no reason to say it would have improved) how many would be complaining about Nino still being here?

 

[2Pair]

personal value of nino or actual value of a slumping LW3/4? he was behind zucker and greenway, wasnt doing a lot but since he did well in the past we say his value is up or do you have other reasons for his value being higher? does nino being older and cost more make him more or less valuable?

The value of Nino in comparisson to Rask. No matter where you put the value of Nino, I think everyone would have to agree that it would be much larger than the value of Rask?

I don't hate the logic of Nino for a center, but that doesn't make the value even close to equal

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

And if the market was predicated on not wanting to have a player of his cap hit playing on the 4th line because he's been out performed by the other LW's on the squad? How many fans have been screaming for move for months? How many wanted that move to be for Nino or Coyle?
It's like I said at the time... Fans: DO SOMETHING!!!! GM: Does something... Fans: NOT THAT!!!!!!!!
If Nino were still here and continuing his poor play here (and there is no reason to say it would have improved) how many would be complaining about Nino still being here?

Cool. I wasn't one of those fans.

Basically what you're saying is that after every move that Fenton makes, our collective response should be "well, I guess we'll see what happens".

 

[DeagleJenkins]

The value of Nino in comparisson to Rask. No matter where you put the value of Nino, I think everyone would have to agree that it would be much larger than the value of Rask?

I don't hate the logic of Nino for a center, but that doesn't make the value even close to equal

i must not be everyone because contract, age, position make it more equal in my eyes, if he wasnt playing with Aho on the 1st line in CAR would he have 4 goals in 4 games? doubtful, he is a -1 with those 4 goals still. he wasnt tearing it up, he was trending downward. if he didnt get 15 goals this season and finished around 25 points would you have held onto him one more year hoping for him to get better?

 

[Ban Hammered]

Cool. I wasn't one of those fans.

Basically what you're saying is that after every move that Fenton makes, our collective response should be "well, I guess we'll see what happens".

Good for you and yes...such an easy way to live.

 

[2Pair]

i must not be everyone because contract, age, position make it more equal in my eyes, if he wasnt playing with Aho on the 1st line in CAR would he have 4 goals in 4 games? doubtful, he is a -1 with those 4 goals still. he wasnt tearing it up, he was trending downward. if he didnt get 15 goals this season and finished around 25 points would you have held onto him one more year hoping for him to get better?

What Nino has done in Carolina has no bearing on my opinion of the deal. If you look at what Nino has done with the Wild and think Rask has produced at a similiar rate? Yeah, not close

 

[Twoods1623]

This has become a dumpster fire of a forum post since we gave up talking about the prospect and went onto a completely different topic.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Good for you and yes...such an easy way to live.

But not much use on a DISCUSSION BOARD.

 

[Wabit]

With this logic, it makes the value of Ennis and Rask through the roof.

How is it off? Saad's last season stats and the Nino's post injury numbers are very close. This is why people hate this trade, the Wild players get a huge bump in value for being a Wild player, but you compare them to anyone similar it's just wrong.

Compare Nino's last 80 games in MN to Saad's last season, the stats are real close. $750k salary difference, same age, and the same term.

 

[2Pair]

How is it off? Saad's last season stats and the Nino's post injury numbers are very close. This is why people hate this trade, the Wild players get a huge bump in value for being a Wild player, but you compare them to anyone similar it's just wrong.

Compare Nino's last 80 games in MN to Saad's last season, the stats are real close. $750k salary difference, same age, and the same term.

WTF does Saad have to do with any of this?

 

[Ban Hammered]

But not much use on a DISCUSSION BOARD.

Oh well. Knee jerks are so much more fun than attempting to be rational about it...
I mean fans aren't short for fanatics for nothing.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Corey Pronman responded to a question about FJ on his chat yesterday.. basically he likes some of his tools, acknowledges that he's playing tough minutes against men, wonders about his offensive upside (as do we all), and says he wouldn't have picked him there.

Question remains... he's not a pro scout, much less an acting GM who has made the right picks in the past, he's an informed observer as we mostly are (to more or less of an extent). 24th overall is far more of a crapshoot than, say, 11th, in most drafts, though so I'll reserve judgment and recommend it for everyone concerned.

Not many 1st rounders playing pro hockey though... so I'd put him on track.