With the 14th overall selection in the 2023 NHL Entry Draft, the Pittsburgh Penguins select…

[Zbynek]

Adin friggen Hill just won the Stanley Cup.

This is a strawman argument at best. Just because Adin Hill won a Stanley Cup doesn't mean we should look away from an available Connor Hellebuyck on the trade market. You're using the success of an entire team + coaching staff for a 1:1 goalie comparison. Makes absolutely no sense dude.

 

[SomeDude]

This is a strawman argument at best. Just because Adin Hill won a Stanley Cup doesn't mean we should look away from an available Connor Hellebuyck on the trade market. You're using the success of an entire team + coaching staff for a 1:1 goalie comparison. Makes absolutely no sense dude.

Why would Hellebuyck sign an extension with the modern day Pittsburgh Penguins? Why would we trade a 1st + for one year of Hellebuyck when the rest of the roster still is very flawed?

When is the last time a team whose best player is their goalie won a Cup?

 

[PensandCaps]

Sully is still here, bud.

So? Don't give him washed players to play.

 

[deakka]

Is Bob Mckenzie final ranking coming out today?
That one is usually quite accurate imo.

 

[Zbynek]

Why would Hellebuyck sign an extension with the modern day Pittsburgh Penguins? Why would we trade a 1st + for one year of Hellebuyck when the rest of the roster still is very flawed?

When is the last time a team whose best player is their goalie won a Cup?

How about the Conn Smythe winner from 2 years ago ?? Y'know, the absolute best comparable player to the guy we are talking about?

 

[SomeDude]

How about the Conn Smythe winner from 2 years ago ?? Y'know, the absolute best comparable player to the guy we are talking about?

Tampa is/was a very well rounded roster. You cannot say Vasilevsky is clearly their best player when they also have the likes of Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, and Hedman. That is not comparable to adding Hellebucyk to a roster of old Sid/Geno/Letang and scraps.

This team could not beat Chicago with their season on the line. It is not a goalie away from being good.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

When is the last time a team whose best player is their goalie won a Cup?

To even get to the Cup final, you need a goalie playing very well. Prior to the Finals, Bob was a logical CS choice. I mean raise your hand if you had Bob and Hill as your Finals starting goalies. It's a small sample size if you limit it to playoffs only

It's hard to look at recent history bc of the TB & Pitt back to backs., but let's revisit

Vegas- an out of nowhere Hill
Col - Kumper was ok enough during that run. Francouz came in and provided reliable play when the starter went down
TB - Vasi is arguably the best goalie in the world the past 5 years
Stl- Binnington went on a run that was unexpected
Wash - Holtby finally comes through
Pitt - There has to be some weird stat about Matt Murray. He didn't start G1 of the playoffs in either of his Cups. Prior to this, MM was pretty much an unknown

So that's 8 years of history. The only "consistent studs" (meaning in terms of durability/reliability of RS and playoffs) were Vasi and Holtby

If you want to win the SC it's likely that your winning goalie isn't widely recognized as a consistent/durable top 5 player at his position. But I realize that's a flawed logical fallacy bc to even make it to the playoffs, you need to have some consistency in net.

As another poster said, goalies are turning into fungible assets like RB's in football. Use them up and then move onto the next one. Play hot streaks as long as you can.

 

[SomeDude]

To even get to the Cup final, you need a goalie playing very well. Prior to the Finals, Bob was a logical CS choice. I mean raise your hand if you had Bob and Hill as your Finals starting goalies. It's a small sample size if you limit it to playoffs only

It's hard to look at recent history bc of the TB & Pitt back to backs., but let's revisit

Vegas- an out of nowhere Hill
Col - Kumper was ok enough during that run. Francouz came in and provided reliable play when the starter went down
TB - Vasi is arguably the best goalie in the world the past 5 years
Stl- Binnington went on a run that was unexpected
Wash - Holtby finally comes through
Pitt - There has to be some weird stat about Matt Murray. He didn't start G1 of the playoffs in either of his Cups. Prior to this, MM was pretty much an unknown

So that's 8 years of history. The only "consistent studs" (meaning in terms of durability/reliability of RS and playoffs) were Vasi and Holtby

If you want to win the SC it's likely that your winning goalie isn't widely recognized as a consistent/durable top 5 player at his position. But I realize that's a flawed logical fallacy bc to even make it to the playoffs, you need to have some consistency in net.

As another poster said, goalies are turning into fungible assets like RB's in football. Use them up and then move onto the next one. Play hot streaks as long as you can.

The comparison of RBs to Football is actually pretty apt. RBs used to be the workhorses of the team just like goalies like Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, Belfour, etc used to play 70+ games and carry their teams.

The league is trending in the goalie by committee approach just like the NFL is handling RB's. More and more you are seeing goalies splitting time pretty evenly.

Is Hellebuyck one of the most consistent and best goalies in the NHL? Yes. Does that mean he's worth trading significant assets for and allocating a large cap % towards? For a team on the brink like Carolina and NJ or on the cusp like LA and Buffalo who have question marks at the position, yes it probably is worth it.

Is it worth it for an aging team with little to no valuable trade assets who is just trying to find some magic for a last gasp out of their core that also needs a complete overhaul of their bottom 6 and defense? I say no.

 

[Zbynek]

Tampa is/was a very well rounded roster. You cannot say Vasilevsky is clearly their best player when they also have the likes of Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, and Hedman. That is not comparable to adding Hellebucyk to a roster of old Sid/Geno/Letang and scraps.

This team could not beat Chicago with their season on the line. It is not a goalie away from being good.

If your viewpoint is you want to go the Andersen/Raanta route or even worse, re-up on Jarry and keep the shit goalie carousel we have going, then by all means that's your opinion and I'm not going to change it.

But Vasilevsky's 2021 playoff run isn't subjective, the dude posted a .937 and 5 shutouts, won all 16 games... he was the undisputed, by leaps and bounds, best player for his team and in the entire playoffs that year. Hellebuyck wants Vasilevsky money because, well, he's the best comparable there is to a Vasilevsky. Adin Hill is not a good comparable for this discussion.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse here and keep detailing the counterpoints here. Let's keep it simple... I just want to see a Vezina goalie play behind Sid and Geno for once in their career.

 

[Zbynek]

This team could not beat Chicago with their season on the line. It is not a goalie away from being good.

Perfect example of a game we need Helle to steal for us. Jarry was absolute dogshit in that game. When you get outdueled by PETER MRAZEK it's time to go a different direction in the goalie department

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you need a $9 million AAV goalie to "steal" a game against the two worst teams in the league, Columbus and Chicago, you probably shouldn't bother spending all the assets to acquire and re-sign (he's not re-signing here imo) a guy like Hellebuyck.

 

[Lust for Life]

Anyway get someone interesting at 14 please

 

[Zbynek]

If you need a $9 million AAV goalie to "steal" a game against the two worst teams in the league, Columbus and Chicago, you probably shouldn't bother spending all the assets to acquire and re-sign (he's not re-signing here imo) a guy like Hellebuyck.

3rd goal against the Blackhawks, run it back brother. All of them were softies though.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

3rd goal against the Blackhawks, run it back brother. All of them were softies though.

We agree, the Pens goalies sucked. But Hellebuyck is leaving the Jets, a team pretty much where the Pens are at in terms of contention, for a chance at a Cup. He's not re-signing with a team full of 36 year olds that hasn't seen the 2nd round since 2018, bud. For your sanity, go ahead and break off this obsession.

Great goalie, some team is gonna get a massive upgrade in net this summer. But it ain't gonna be the Pens, nor should they throw everything that isn't nailed down at Winnipeg to acquire him, because I'm pretty confident he'd have zero interest in re-signing.

 

[BusinessGoose]

When was the last time a team with the worse goalie stats won the Cup?

 

[WickedWrister]

I'm going to LOL if we draft a goalie at 14

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Shitting every single asset this team has to acquire a goaltender here in 2023 and then be ready and willing to pay the guy like 9M long term is about the dumbest plan I've ever heard for this Pittsburgh Penguins team or frankly most teams. What YEAR is it? I feel like some of you guys never got the memo about that position.

 

[SomeDude]

I'm going to LOL if we draft a goalie at 14

Dubas should just draft Hellebuyck with the pick and fight the NHL that it's legit. At least that would be interesting.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

When was the last time a team with the worse goalie stats won the Cup?

Without looking it up, my guess is Osgood statistically outplayed MAF in 09

 

[steelcityassault]

Without looking it up, my guess is Osgood statistically outplayed MAF in 09

Rk		Name	Team	Age	GP	GAA	SV%	W	L	GA	SV	SOG	SO	TIME	G	A	P	PIM
1		Marc-Andre Fleury	PIT	24	24	2.61	0.908	16	8	63	623	686	0	1447	0	0	0	2
2		Chris Osgood	DET	36	23	2.01	0.926	15	8	47	590	637	2	1406	0	2	2	2

Trying to find Finals specific

 

[Gurglesons]

When was the last time a team with the worse goalie stats won the Cup?

Vasi vs Kuemper

 

[Freeptop]

Without looking it up, my guess is Osgood statistically outplayed MAF in 09

Depends on how you look at it.

Over the whole series, Osgood's stats were better.

Really, though, it was mostly game 5 that skews the total results. If you go game-by-game, the winning team had the better performing goaltender in every single one.

And then in game 7, Fleury was really good, whereas Osgood was... not. (Seriously, how was Osgood so far out of position on Talbot's second goal? He may as well not have been in the net!)

Statistically speaking, Fleury stopped 24/25 shots on game 7 (.960 save percentage, with everything on the line), while Osgood stopped 16/18 (0.889).

Once the Pens went up 2-0, the shot totals show how they just tried to hang on for dear life, and the eye test matches that, especially if you watch the third period (Pens had 1 shot in the third!)

 

[The Old Master]

Is Bob Mckenzie final ranking coming out today?
That one is usually quite accurate imo.

depending on who's there, i still want a rd or a center with the most upside. and if rumors are true that there could be a run-on defenseman then a very good player could fall into our lap.

 

[Andy99]

Is Bob Mckenzie final ranking coming out today?
That one is usually quite accurate imo.

the last info I had was one week prior to the draft, so either today or tomorrow

 

[Malkinstheman]

There seem to be only 4-5 first round worthy D this year. Hopefully a couple teams draft for need and take the D early causing some top-10 forwards to drop.