Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent II: Discontent Harder

[Nineteen67]

I had previously held in my mind that a signing of Cain would lead to the shopping of Kevin Pillar. But now I'm thinking closer along the lines playing both side by side (in CF, Pillar, and in RF Cain), and shifting them to essentially make the smallest LF in baseball for Steve Pearce (and Solarte). That's to start the season, and then of course if Pearce breaks down, Alford\Teoscar\Smith Jr.\Pompey, or whomever is playing best in Triple-A would be called up to take the spot.

Or, alternatively, if one of them blows away Spring Training, they assume the spot, and Pearce goes back to his part time fill in role at 1B\DH\LF. If two or more (Teoscar and Alford) are raking, then you can shop Pillar in season. Makes a good amount of sense.

The 2019 outfield would likely be some combination of Alford - Cain - Teoscar, with Cain moving permanently to RF for 2020 and 2021.

What are the Jays waiting on? Have they identified Cain as their guy? If so offer him market value + the Toronto factor and get him signed.

 

[GoonieFace]

What are the Jays waiting on? Have they identified Cain as their guy? If so offer him market value + the Toronto factor and get him signed.

If you haven't noticed, things have been slow in general, so its not only the Jays. I still think they make a significant move or 2 before the season starts.

 

[phillipmike]

I like Donaldson i would like to have him back but i think this sums up the risk pretty well;

The problem with Donaldson, and what will surely be a sticking point in negotiations, is that he was a late bloomer, a converted catcher who will be 33 when he reaches free agency.

There are four prior contracts with an annual value of $25M awarded to position players who were at least 32 years old. Josh Hamilton (Angels) and Ryan Howard (Phillies) received five-year, $125M deals. They were both disastrous for their teams. The 10-year, $275M deal the Yankees gave Alex Rodriguez at age 33 was always ridiculous, and the Tigers’ eight-year deal to 33-year-old Miguel Cabrera, averaging $31M, has been a mixed bag and has five years remaining.

Give the man what he wants! See Bautista ST 2016, see David Price 2016 off-season - just be glad fans are not making these decisions.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

What are the Jays waiting on? Have they identified Cain as their guy? If so offer him market value + the Toronto factor and get him signed.

Cain is probably waiting to see if he can get a fourth (or fifth depending on the market) year from someone. And teams are waiting to see if he'll take three.

 

[Nineteen67]

Cain is probably waiting to see if he can get a fourth (or fifth depending on the market) year from someone. And teams are waiting to see if he'll take three.

If the Jays feel like he is their guy, how much over market value or term are they willing to go. I would assume, by now, they’d know if Cain is seriously considering Toronto. My guess, he isn’t.

 

[Nineteen67]

If you haven't noticed, things have been slow in general, so its not only the Jays. I still think they make a significant move or 2 before the season starts.

Yes, but the Jays are in unique market, all by themselves, as it pertains to FA

 

[Anthrax442]

They are probably waiting for someone to panic and take a crap deal and then the whole market will want to match,

 

[TF97]

Looks like Houston is about to get Gerrit Cole.

 

[phillipmike]

Wonder who the Yankees go after now.

Regardless it should be a great move for the Astros especially if it is nothing off their roster. Keuchel, Verlander and Cole. Add in McCullers, Morton and Peacock. Still have Whitley and Martes too. Embarrassment of riches.

Wonder if the Pirates trade McCutchen now or make Marte available. Makes sense for them to rebuild.

 

[phillipmike]

Deal is done. Cole to the Astros. Return is not reported yet.

 

[Discoverer]

Maybe this will be the one that opens the free agent floodgates. Astros were a rumoured contender for Darvish... now that that's not happening, he and Arrieta can move on to other suitors, then the second-tier pitchers fall to the teams that don't get one of them...

Probably not though, since this is about the fifth time this offseason a move felt like a "first domino" type deal.

 

[Discoverer]

Also, Dave Cameron to the Padres. That should make a lot of people here happy.

 

[Eyedea]

Wonder who the Yankees go after now.

Regardless it should be a great move for the Astros especially if it is nothing off their roster. Keuchel, Verlander and Cole. Add in McCullers, Morton and Peacock. Still have Whitley and Martes too. Embarrassment of riches.

Wonder if the Pirates trade McCutchen now or make Marte available. Makes sense for them to rebuild.

Whitley is reportedly a part of the deal (or at least one source from the Pirates suggests that).

 

[phillipmike]

Whitley is reportedly a part of the deal (or at least one source from the Pirates suggests that).

That would be stupidity for the Astros but...

11:43am: Astros GM Jeff Luhnow says there’s “nothing imminent” in any of the team’s trade talks, per Jake Kaplan of the Houston Chronicle (Twitter link). Though front offices typically keep tight lips, at least publicly, that seems to be a fairly notable indication that this prospective deal has yet to be fully agreed to.

 

[Woodman19]

Poor Yankees didn't get him at a discount rate.

 

[Nineteen67]

Maybe this will be the one that opens the free agent floodgates. Astros were a rumoured contender for Darvish... now that that's not happening, he and Arrieta can move on to other suitors, then the second-tier pitchers fall to the teams that don't get one of them...

Probably not though, since this is about the fifth time this offseason a move felt like a "first domino" type deal.

They are running out of time so something has to happen soon.

 

[Garlando]

Update on the Gerrit Cole deal: 12:04pm: A source tells Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (Twitter link) that the rumored deal is simply a “false rumor.” It seems, then, there’s no reason at this time to believe a deal between these organizations is particularly likely to occur.

Whitley is reportedly a part of the deal (or at least one source from the Pirates suggests that).

If Whitley is apart of a Gerrit Cole deal, than that's a pretty sweet haul for the Pirates! Whitley is among the very best pitching prospects in the game, likely the #1 pitching prospect by mid-season, and probably has a higher upside than Cole. Would be tough to beat that offer!

 

[Garlando]

Also found this on Fangraphs about Roberto Osuna and thought it was worth sharing:

Osuna finished 3rd among all relievers last year in K/BB (9.22), and 5th in saves (39). He walked just 9 hitters in 64 innings. He pitched the entire season at the age of 22 years old.
The last age 22 (or younger) reliever to at least match Osuna’s 3.0 WAR last year was Francisco Rodriguez in 2004 (3.7). The last age 22 (or younger) reliever to at least match Osuna’s 9.22 K/BB last year was I don’t know because I couldn’t find anyone remotely close.
I wasn’t aware Osuna was so young. I wasn’t aware he was so good, either. And for whatever reason (maybe those 10 blown saves), it doesn’t seem like his excellence has been cemented in the minds of fantasy owners just yet as he still seems relatively attainable in fantasy trade discussions. Osuna was one of just three relievers to hit the hallowed 10.0 P/IP mark in Ottoneu last year. He’s not only one of the best current relievers in the game, but seems to be on a very early path to becoming one of the better relievers in the game, ever. I don’t think his owners see him in that light yet, so buy now while you can.

I covered Osuna earlier this winter, but I’m still floored that he’s just 23 years old. I’ve been trying to buy him everywhere this off-season because I still don’t think his perceived value has caught up to his actual skill (his SwStr% has increased three straight seasons, and his new cutter has now made him a home run suppressing ground ball machine). If he repeats his 2017 season or comes close to it, Osuna will finally be classified as one of the (historically) elite closers in the game, right along side Kenley Jansen and Craig Kimbrel.

 

[zeke]

yes it was worth sharing.

 

[BlueForever75]

I too believe there are two impact moves that are going to happen for the Jays. OF and Pitcher. One will be by trade and the other will be a FA. I am thinking Lynn or Cobb as a FA, and McDaddy out of Pittsburgh for our OF.

 

[Gargyn]

I think Jays brass are extremely interested in Yelich and will make a huge offer for him. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him here. I'd love to see them figure something out to add both him and Cain.

 

[BlueForever75]

I think Jays brass are extremely interested in Yelich and will make a huge offer for him. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see him here. I'd love to see them figure something out to add both him and Cain.

Now that is a dream. For that to happen we would need to trade Pillar, and Morales along with some high prospects. Fitting them both in is not possible with our budget and starting pitching still needed.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Now that is a dream. For that to happen we would need to trade Pillar, and Morales along with some high prospects. Fitting them both in is not possible with our budget and starting pitching still needed.

Not that its entirely realistic, but you most certainly could fit both. Yelich's ticket is only $7MM this year, and Cain could land at $16.5MM (Fowler's aav). You could fit both without moving anyone, or if you were so inclined, trade Pearce ($6.2MM) who's far more marketable than Morales.

 

[FreeBird]

Wonder who the Yankees go after now.

Regardless it should be a great move for the Astros especially if it is nothing off their roster. Keuchel, Verlander and Cole. Add in McCullers, Morton and Peacock. Still have Whitley and Martes too. Embarrassment of riches.

Probably Stroman he's made to be a Yankee, he's a NY'er through and through.

Wonder if the Pirates trade McCutchen now or make Marte available. Makes sense for them to rebuild.

 

[BlueForever75]

Not that its entirely realistic, but you most certainly could fit both. Yelich's ticket is only $7MM this year, and Cain could land at $16.5MM (Fowler's aav). You could fit both without moving anyone, or if you were so inclined, trade Pearce ($6.2MM) who's far more marketable than Morales.

Very true but I don't think it is in the best interest of the Jays to trade Bo in any Yelich deal. I would rather sign Cain and Bruce, then trade Pearce. Keep prospects.