Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[Yukon Joe]

The Canadian Standard
1. Sell out every game no matter the team record
2. No discounting tickets or comping tickets
3. Price gouge the fans, if fans aren’t willing to spend 2 paychecks on tickets and concessions to attend one game they aren’t real fans
4. Receive not one dime of Bettman’s revenue sharing scheme
5. No help from the local government or tax breaks team must build the arena and maintain it themselves.

If you can’t do all of these things then the city doesn’t deserve a team

Man what a chip you're carrying on that shoulder of yours!

 

[93LEAFS]

Nobody is going to drive from places like Syracuse and Rochester to see the Sabres play. It's too far. When the Jets first entered the NHL in 1979, some people argued that fans from Brandon, and other places would see the Jets. Almost nobody came on weeknights to buy tickets. Almost 99% of fans live within an hour drive from the arena.

"More inline with Vancouver?" LOL. Thanks for the laugh.

People will drive from Rochester to Buffalo. Vancouver has a metro population of 2.4m, by American standards its a small market. The only cities in Canada that are actually big relative to the rest of North America are Toronto and Montreal.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Once again, the cheapest ticket in the house through the official channel is usually $60+ Canadian when all the fees are factored in, which is one of the more expensive tickets in the league. This has been covered many, many times here. Season tickets used to be an attractive proposition and the reason why so few single tickets were available, but TNSE squeezed every last dime out of them until they walked away. If they wanted to retain STHs, they should’ve frozen ST prices for anyone under contract instead of choosing near-maximum increases every single year to the people under those contracts. They traded long-term commitment and excitement for immediate profits, so people walked away when it became untenable. Loyalty is a two way street, after all.

I see a lot of generalizations about “Jets fans mock southern markets so it’s only fair we do it to them” as justification of criticism here. I can’t say I’ve seen much of this. We know what it’s like to lose a team better than any other active fan base on HF. We know it’s not pleasant to experience it or even joke about it and I highly doubt the average Jets fan would wish it on someone else. Instead it sounds like a false justification to just be nasty, which doesn’t surprise me around here.

I’m sorry, but a lot of Jets fans were laughing when the Thrashers left Atalanta. Saying how we can’t keep a team. That’s why a lot of Thrasher fans didn’t not become Jet fans because of the treatment of some of those fans.

 

[ForumNamePending]

People will drive from Rochester to Buffalo. Vancouver has a metro population of 2.4m, by American standards its a small market. The only cities that are actually big relative to the rest of North America are Toronto and Montreal.

Eh... At the last census in 2021 metro Vancouver's population was actually over 2.6 million. Plus, if Vancouver was an American city its metro is probably extending out as far as Chilliwack... So Vancouver is now coming in at about 3 million. Certainly still not a big market, but hovering around the top 20.

Also, agree that when discussing Buffalo, it's reasonable to include Rochester and at least the Canadian Niagara region in the catchment area.

Wait... What was this thread about again?

 

[BB79]

Wait... What was this thread about again?

Millionaires asking for more money because the economy is in the toilet. I wonder how they think us peons feel?

 

[Jets4Life]

People will drive from Rochester to Buffalo. Vancouver has a metro population of 2.4m, by American standards its a small market. The only cities in Canada that are actually big relative to the rest of North America are Toronto and Montreal.

Rochester to Buffalo is 2 1/2 hours round trip. Nobody is going to drive that on a weekday. As of October 2023, metro Vancouver has 2.95 million, not 2.4 million. Who are you trying to fool? The Buffalo area includes Niagara, and the total population is only 1.15 million. That is a lot smaller than Calgary (1.7 million, Edmonton 1.6 million, and Ottawa 1.55 million).

 

[Jets4Life]

Eh... At the last census in 2021 metro Vancouver's population was actually over 2.6 million. Plus, if Vancouver was an American city its metro is probably extending out as far as Chilliwack... So Vancouver is now coming in at about 3 million. Certainly still not a big market, but hovering around the top 20.

Also, agree that when discussing Buffalo, it's reasonable to include Rochester and at least the Canadian Niagara region in the catchment area.

Wait... What was this thread about again?

It's even more than that. On July 1, 2022, the population of Vancouver was 2.842 million, and since that period, Canada has shattered all immigration records by admitting nearly 2 million people in the past 18 months. By January 1, Vancouver is expected to hit 3,000,000 people.

I completely disagree with including places like Chilliwack for Vancouver, and Rochester for Buffalo. It's too lengthy a drive for all but maybe 100 die-hards to make. It's not the NFL where there is only 8 games a season, and they are all on Sundays.

 

[93LEAFS]

Rochester to Buffalo is 2 1/2 hours round trip. Nobody is going to drive that on a weekday. As of October 2023, metro Vancouver has 2.95 million, not 2.4 million. Who are you trying to fool? The Buffalo area includes Niagara, and the total population is only 1.15 million. That is a lot smaller than Calgary (1.7 million, Edmonton 1.6 million, and Ottawa 1.55 million).

You are completely forgetting the Canadian side of the border which is a 20 minute drive and adds about 450,000 people. And, yes, people do drive from Rochester to Buffalo for sporting events. Have you even been to Buffalo? Because I've been to multiple sporting events there, and people do make that drive. Maybe not as season ticket holders, but as people who go to occasional games they absolutely do. If you think Winnipeg and Buffalo are comparable markets, you are terribly misguided.

 

[Jets4Life]

You are completely forgetting the Canadian side of the border which is a 20 minute drive and adds about 450,000 people. And, yes, people do drive from Rochester to Buffalo for sporting events. Have you even been to Buffalo? Because I've been to multiple sporting events there, and people do make that drive. Maybe not as season ticket holders, but as people who go to occasional games they absolutely do. If you think Winnipeg and Buffalo are comparable markets, you are terribly misguided.

You are deliberate inflating the number of people that are willing to travel to Sabres games. What's next? Including Toronto, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh. Sure, 20 million people could be in the Buffalo market by your standards, and they can fly to Buffalo 41 games a year, but that is not going to happen.

Buffalo is the second smallest NHL market. Deal with it.

 

[93LEAFS]

You are deliberate inflating the number of people that are willing to travel to Sabres games. What's next? Including Toronto, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh. Sure, 20 million people could be in the Buffalo market by your standards, and they can fly to Buffalo 41 games a year, but that is not going to happen.

Buffalo is the second smallest NHL market. Deal with it.

No, you are just [mod] ignoring the Niagra region in Canada, which doesn't show up in a census since you know, they are in different countries. But, the Sabre's have reported having around 15% of season ticket holders being Canadian. So, that is an important part of their market.

 

[Masked]

Rochester to Buffalo is 2 1/2 hours round trip. Nobody is going to drive that on a weekday. As of October 2023, metro Vancouver has 2.95 million, not 2.4 million. Who are you trying to fool? The Buffalo area includes Niagara, and the total population is only 1.15 million. That is a lot smaller than Calgary (1.7 million, Edmonton 1.6 million, and Ottawa 1.55 million).

You have your numbers wrong. Ottawa is the fourth largest metro in Canada and it's population as of the last census is 1,488,307.

Buffalo, if you include the its metro and the adjacent metro on the Canadian side, is a market of over 1.5 million.

 

[Gnashville]

Man what a chip you're carrying on that shoulder of yours!

That’s the standard set by Canadians for Sunbelt Cities not by me.

 

[edog37]

Are you done crying?

Its not my problem that you have a problem over people ragging on US teams with dogshit owners who havent done anything positive for growing their teams brand or the NHL brand for in their location.

Piss and moan all you want about the team leaving and the low attendance and blah blah blah, the current state of the current team we have even with low attendance is still better than their predecessor org currently playing in a college arena, or Atlanta who couldn't hold down 2 franchises.

TLDR: They arent going anywhere and you can keep crying about it all you want from under your troll bridge, it wont change

And what pray tell has Winnipeg done for the league? Or Ottawa? Not a damn thing.

 

[edog37]

The irony of some Penguins fans repeating a half dozen times that Winnipeg is too small to keep the NHL is not lost on me. For starters, it took the Penguins 20 years to average over 13,000 fans in one season. There were 6 seasons that Pittsburgh averaged less than 10,000 fans, and the team went bankrupt in 1975, and it took a miracle that they did not relocate to Seattle, Until the mid 80s, it was rumoured that the team would either contract, or move.

After Lemieux established himself as a superstar, the team had good seasons, but once he left, the Pens were again losing tons of money, and rumoured to be leaving by the end of the 90s. By 2004, the team was again averaging 11,000 fans/game, and the rumour was that the team would be relocating to Kansas City, and it was only Crosby who saved Pittsburgh from moving.

Compare that to the Jets, who sold out nearly every game until COVID hit. If we really look at it, this is the first season the Jets 2.0 have averaged under 14,000 fans per game (2021-22 often had games without any spectators, due to COVID restrictions). The team has been in Winnipeg for 13 years, and there is absolutely no talk about moving the team.

The fact is Pittsburgh has been around for well over 50 years & hockey has been in Pittsburgh since the late 1800s. When push came to shove, we supported our team & never lost it. So your words have no meaning. Fill your damn arena & quit making excuses. We’ll judge you by the same standard you levy on others.

 

[ForumNamePending]

That’s the standard set by Canadians for Sunbelt Cities not by me.

Right, and now that Winnipeg isn't meeting that standard we have started to see threads with people questioning the Jets' viability in that market. On the other hand, Nashville seems to be doing OK, and as a result, the "move the Preds to Thunder Bay" threads have gone away. So why are you so mad?

 

[Boonk]

The fact is Pittsburgh has been around for well over 50 years & hockey has been in Pittsburgh since the late 1800s. When push came to shove, we supported our team & never lost it. So your words have no meaning. Fill your damn arena & quit making excuses. We’ll judge you by the same standard you levy on others.

Neither do yours. All you have done is contribute nothing but your whining and crying to this discussion.
The arena had no problem being filled for 8 years before a global pandemic and economic crisis ensued literally everywhere and whiped peoples income. You like to live in a fantasy world in your own head where that didnt occur apparently.

The attendance will rebound and fluctuate just like literally every teams attendance in any sport...ever. Not like youd know that tho

And what pray tell has Winnipeg done for the league? Or Ottawa? Not a damn thing.

Net worth for both of these teams is higher than Carolina or Florida, 2 teams whove done a "damn thing" like winning cups and making cup finals. Winnipegs net worth even grew 15% from last year. For a team and its fanbase that isnt "setting the sTaNdArD" it seems like a better standard than their predecessor currently playing in a college barn 3x smaller than theirs

 

[TheLegend]

Right, and now that Winnipeg isn't meeting that standard we have started to see threads with people questioning the Jets' viability in that market. On the other hand, Nashville seems to be doing OK, and as a result, the "move the Preds to Thunder Bay" threads have gone away. So why are you so mad?

I’ll add in particular when those few people who were constantly dragging on southern belt markets those years ago aren’t posting in this thread.

I reignited this thread to find out if the situation in Winnipeg was improving over the start of the season and so far it seems to be heading in the right direction.

Like the economy, it’s not going to fix itself overnight. We dealt with it in Arizona on top of all the other self-inflicted misadventures the previous ownership groups put the franchise through and I’m not sure the current ownership group is going to save it given all the baggage they inherited when he bought the franchise.

But at least he’s been busting his ass trying.

 

[edog37]

Neither do yours. All you have done is contribute nothing but your whining and crying to this discussion.
The arena had no problem being filled for 8 years before a global pandemic and economic crisis ensued literally everywhere and whiped peoples income. You like to live in a fantasy world in your own head where that didnt occur apparently.

The attendance will rebound and fluctuate just like literally every teams attendance in any sport...ever. Not like youd know that tho

Net worth for both of these teams is higher than Carolina or Florida, 2 teams whove done a "damn thing" like winning cups and making cup finals. Winnipegs net worth even grew 15% from last year. For a team and its fanbase that isnt "setting the sTaNdArD" it seems like a better standard than their predecessor currently playing in a college barn 3x smaller than theirs

Funny how Pittsburgh had sellouts after the pandemic as well as many other teams. That was three years ago.

 

[Gnashville]

Right, and now that Winnipeg isn't meeting that standard we have started to see threads with people questioning the Jets' viability in that market. On the other hand, Nashville seems to be doing OK, and as a result, the "move the Preds to Thunder Bay" threads have gone away. So why are you so mad?

I’m not mad!! I am actually happy that everything I said back then has come true. No market is infallible. I wish not ill will towards Winnipeg and don’t want any team to move.

 

[ForumNamePending]

 

[Jets4Life]

You have your numbers wrong. Ottawa is the fourth largest metro in Canada and it's population as of the last census is 1,488,307.

Ottawa-Gatineau is the 6th largest metro area:

Population estimates, July 1, by census metropolitan area and census agglomeration, 2016 boundaries

 

[Jets4Life]

The fact is Pittsburgh has been around for well over 50 years & hockey has been in Pittsburgh since the late 1800s. When push came to shove, we supported our team & never lost it. So your words have no meaning. Fill your damn arena & quit making excuses. We’ll judge you by the same standard you levy on others.

Pittsburgh has lost an NHL team once before Just like Winnipeg.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I think the hope was that having an NHL team would be a significant source of pride for the community, leading to disproportionate support. That model worked for a while, but has been tested due to disappointing team performance, fan fatigue, poor customer services and the pandemic disrupting people's normal habits.

There is no question that serious malaise surrounding the team (locker room dysfunction that we never heard the full story on, playoff disappointment, players wanting out, uncertainty for a while surrounding key players) combined with economic factors and poor customer service had a real impact. But things are improving. If the Jets keep playing the way they are, and Jets account execs dust off the rolodex and get cracking, I think the place will be full on the regular next year. The fan mood is improving.

The biggest thing the team can do to help things along is to go on a nice long playoff run, nothing ignites passion like that can.

I find this an interesting hockey business question. I believe only Winnipeg and Calgary share the NHL arena with their AHL team?

Could the Moose be cannibalizing Jets ticket sales? If the Jets were selling out every game I’d say that’s an easy No. But when the Jets aren’t selling out, would more people choose to buy NHL tickets if there wasn’t a cheaper AHL ticket option in the same location?

Lots of variables in play like ease of location for the farm team and maybe drumming up Jets interest by also having the AHL club as a option,

I was at the Moose game last night and the crowd does not really look like a Jets crowd. Lots of families and kid sport teams in the crowd, lots of new Canadians/recent immigrants. Very little of the "traditional" NHL crowd of, let's face it, older white guys. I don't think there is a ton of cannibalization going on there. Maybe there are a few people who spend money on the Moose instead of the Jets but I can't imagine it's enough to really move the needle. If anything, the Moose are probably good at building a market for live hockey. A family from the Philippines goes to a couple of Moose games and has fun, maybe they will go to a Jets game next, etc.

That said, the Jets don't really put much effort into selling the Moose. Tickets are comically overpriced for what you get, I'd far rather throw down an extra $10 or $20 and get a nosebleed seat for a Jets game than spend $40 on a Moose ticket. I think the Jets just want their farm team close by and they don't really care too much about the rest.

Also LOL at the people in this thread who are legit mad about the continued existence of the Winnipeg Jets. Deal with it, haters

 

[edog37]

Pittsburgh has lost an NHL team once before Just like Winnipeg.

You seriously going to cherry pick the old Pirates who moved due to the Depression…never mind how it impacted the league or most sectors of society. That’s not even remotely relevant. But here we still sit, a Canadian market refusing to support its team.

 

[Fidel Astro]

For whatever it’s worth, this afternoon’s Jets game was sold out.