Winnipeg Sun: Jets, Mark Chipman, call for help as attendance decreases

[Jets4Life]

Winnipeg is 50% smaller than the next smallest market (Buffalo). The only way a team works is if it gets support disproportionate to all other markets.

This is not correct now. As of October 1, 2023, the Winnipeg metro area has 910,000 people, while the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area has 1,150,000. Winnipeg is expected to hit 1,000,000 people before the end of the decade. As for disproportionate support, the team sold out every single game for over 8 years. After COVID is when problems started to emerge.

I honestly think that if the business community steps up to the plate, and purchases 40% of the season tickets, Winnipeg should be fine, and that will not be very difficult with the right sales and marketing tactics.

I think the hope was that having an NHL team would be a significant source of pride for the community, leading to disproportionate support. That model worked for a while, but has been tested due to disappointing team performance, fan fatigue, poor customer services and the pandemic disrupting people's normal habits.

Nothing to do with disappointing team performances. Everything to do with COVID, inflation, less disposable income since the end of COVID. It also has to do with the TNSE customer service. They took for granted the season ticket base, when there was a 5,000 person waiting list, and acted like fans were lucky to have the seats, and made no attempt to retain the ticket holders. They need to fire their entire PR team, and bring in a marketing team who knows what they are doing.

TNSE now faces the challenge of having to rebuild its season ticket holder base when the nostalgia of Jets 2.0 has worn off. I believe they are in it for the long haul and will do everything they can. At some point, the community will have to do it's part. I hope Winnipeg steps up. It won't get a third chance.

Nothing to do with nostalgia. It's all about disposable income, and the ability of the community to support the team. This is hardly unique to Winnipeg. Calgary, Ottawa, and other cities have been dealing with the same issues.

 

[Jets4Life]

1) Why are you trying to buy the cheapest tickets available in the most expensive way possible? The re-sale market is extremely accessible so going through the overpriced *official* seller is not necessary,
2) I'm currently looking at TicketMaster which is the official ticket sales partner of the NHL. After taxes, fees, AND paying in CAD there are weekday games available for $45 and the Saturday game against the Flyers has tickets available for less than $70.

Those prices are fairly in line with the other non major NHL Markets.

On Gametime, I see Jets tickets at $28 each.

 

[edog37]

This is not correct now. As of October 1, 2023, the Winnipeg metro area has 910,000 people, while the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area has 1,150,000. Winnipeg is expected to hit 1,000,000 people before the end of the decade. As for disproportionate support, the team sold out every single game for over 8 years. After COVID is when problems started to emerge.

I honestly think that if the business community steps up to the plate, and purchases 40% of the season tickets, Winnipeg should be fine, and that will not be very difficult with the right sales and marketing tactics.



Nothing to do with disappointing team performances. Everything to do with COVID, inflation, less disposable income since the end of COVID. It also has to do with the TNSE customer service. They took for granted the season ticket base, when there was a 5,000 person waiting list, and acted like fans were lucky to have the seats, and made no attempt to retain the ticket holders. They need to fire their entire PR team, and bring in a marketing team who knows what they are doing.


Nothing to do with nostalgia. It's all about disposable income, and the ability of the community to support the team. This is hardly unique to Winnipeg. Calgary, Ottawa, and other cities have been dealing with the same issues.

No excuses, fill the arena. And this post is full of them. If Green Bay can support an NFL team, any Canadian city can support an NHL team. Otherwise, move it to a far more deserving (& profitable) US market.

 

[Jets4Life]

No excuses, fill the arena. And this post is full of them. If Green Bay can support an NFL team, any Canadian city can support an NHL team. Otherwise, move it to a far more deserving (& profitable) US market.

No matter what is said, you have replied with the exact comments half a dozen times, and add nothing to the conversation.

Go away.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Look, I understand that when the situation is reversed, when an American team is having issues with attendance, there is invariably a flood of Canadians (and Connecticuters) descending into a conversation calling for relocating to a supposed traditional market instead. And now the shoe is on the other foot, so all's fair in love and hockey talk.

But there's really no basis for a comparison between a team that plays once a week with a team that often plays multiple weekday games a week. Have Winnipeg host only 8 or 9 games a year, and their sold out arena would have nosebleeds worth a grand a pop. Have Green Bay host 41 games a year, and they'd be giving away tickets by the wheelbarrow.

 

[Jets4Life]

Look, I understand that when the situation is reversed, when an American team is having issues with attendance, there is invariably a flood of Canadians (and Connecticuters) descending into a conversation calling for relocating to a supposed traditional market instead. And now the shoe is on the other foot, so all's fair in love and hockey talk.

But there's really no basis for a comparison between a team that plays once a week with a team that often plays multiple weekday games a week. Have Winnipeg host only 8 or 9 games a year, and their sold out arena would have nosebleeds worth a grand a pop. Have Green Bay host 40 games a year, and they'd be giving away tickets by the wheelbarrow.

Not to mention that our CFL football team led the league in attendance, averaging over 30,000 fans/game.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Once again, the cheapest ticket in the house through the official channel is usually $60+ Canadian when all the fees are factored in, which is one of the more expensive tickets in the league. This has been covered many, many times here. Season tickets used to be an attractive proposition and the reason why so few single tickets were available, but TNSE squeezed every last dime out of them until they walked away. If they wanted to retain STHs, they should’ve frozen ST prices for anyone under contract instead of choosing near-maximum increases every single year to the people under those contracts. They traded long-term commitment and excitement for immediate profits, so people walked away when it became untenable. Loyalty is a two way street, after all.

I see a lot of generalizations about “Jets fans mock southern markets so it’s only fair we do it to them” as justification of criticism here. I can’t say I’ve seen much of this. We know what it’s like to lose a team better than any other active fan base on HF. We know it’s not pleasant to experience it or even joke about it and I highly doubt the average Jets fan would wish it on someone else. Instead it sounds like a false justification to just be nasty, which doesn’t surprise me around here.

I still don’t understand how any of this is supposed to only affect Jets ticket prices and no one else.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Not to mention that our CFL football team led the league in attendance, averaging over 30,000 fans/game.

And to that factor, the Bombers have been an almost dynasty as well. Give the Jets a modicum of their football counterpart's success, and their sellout streak is alive and well.

Winnipeg is a smaller market and the fanbase is a tad depressed. It happens to basically every team other than the jumbo markets that have room to spare, but there are only a handful of those and notably no currently empty market would realistically be in that camp.

Fanbase passion comes in ebbs and flows.

 

[Gnashville]

Once again, the cheapest ticket in the house through the official channel is usually $60+ Canadian when all the fees are factored in, which is one of the more expensive tickets in the league. This has been covered many, many times here. Season tickets used to be an attractive proposition and the reason why so few single tickets were available, but TNSE squeezed every last dime out of them until they walked away. If they wanted to retain STHs, they should’ve frozen ST prices for anyone under contract instead of choosing near-maximum increases every single year to the people under those contracts. They traded long-term commitment and excitement for immediate profits, so people walked away when it became untenable. Loyalty is a two way street, after all.

I see a lot of generalizations about “Jets fans mock southern markets so it’s only fair we do it to them” as justification of criticism here. I can’t say I’ve seen much of this. We know what it’s like to lose a team better than any other active fan base on HF. We know it’s not pleasant to experience it or even joke about it and I highly doubt the average Jets fan would wish it on someone else. Instead it sounds like a false justification to just be nasty, which doesn’t surprise me around here.

I have been here for 2 decades and dealt with my team being berated and hated for years. Prior to the Thrashers moving to Winnipeg the majority of that hatred came from Winnipeg fans. They were actively supporting Balsille moving my team to Hamilton which had no bearing on their attempt to get a team. There was not a more hostile fanbase towards Southern US hockey fans than Jets fans. So yeah seeing the same fans suddenly start to have to defend their existence is somewhat satisfying to me.

 

[Jets4Life]

I’ve been saying it for years, but no one would listen. Winnipeg is not a major league market.

You ahve been saying that for a decade. Even when the Jets were selling out every single game for years. Time to give up the schtick.

 

[Rob]

I thought it would be Ottawa struggling with attendance this year. They are actually quite decent with a bad hockey team. Economics must be at play here,

 

[Boonk]

No excuses, fill the arena. And this post is full of them. If Green Bay can support an NFL team, any Canadian city can support an NHL team. Otherwise, move it to a far more deserving (& profitable) US market.

Youre one to talk. Have that same energy when Sid, Geno and co. hang up the skates and Pittsburgh is irrelevant again. You guys very much supported your team for sure when the 90s core evaporated and the team almost had to relocate after 2 cups ffs

 

[Jets4Life]

I thought it would be Ottawa struggling with attendance this year. They are actually quite decent with a bad hockey team. Economics must be at play here,

Ottawa did struggle very much. They team went from 18,000 avg in 2015-16 to 12,600 in 2019-20. They bottomed out at 10,000 during the 2021-22 season., before doing well for the last two seasons. That still does not change the fact that the senators struggled at the gate for four seasons in a row.

 

[WpgSteve]

Non-Jets fans do not appreciate the aura of negativity that has been surrounded the team the last few seasons. Things just kept piling on. COVID policies, the Kyle Beach incident, total loss of defence corps in one season, no show efforts, Maurice quitting, Adam Lowry's dad being named interim coach, rumours about players wanting out, last seasons near record collapse, Bones end of season presser, etc. Almost every media report was negative.

It is similar to the aura in Ottawa around the time of the Karlsson fiasco.

The negativity continued into the start of this season with Bowness back after publicly sparring with the players and Scheifele and Helleybuck rumoured to want out with no contracts. The early season attendance woes are no surprise in this context.

As someone living in this market, you can feel the narrative shifting. People who lost interest are back and media reports are glowing. Attendance continues to increase steadily. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ottawa style attendance rebound if the dark clouds can stay away.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Non-Jets fans do not appreciate the aura of negativity that has been surrounded the team the last few seasons. Things just kept piling on. COVID policies, the Kyle Beach incident, total loss of defence corps in one season, no show efforts, Maurice quitting, Adam Lowry's dad being named interim coach, rumours about players wanting out, last seasons near record collapse, Bones end of season presser, etc. Almost every media report was negative.

It is similar to the aura in Ottawa around the time of the Karlsson fiasco.

The negativity continued into the start of this season with Bowness back after publicly sparring with the players and Scheifele and Helleybuck rumoured to want out with no contracts. The early season attendance woes are no surprise in this context.

As someone living in this market, you can feel the narrative shifting. People who lost interest are back and media reports are glowing. Attendance continues to increase steadily. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ottawa style attendance rebound if the dark clouds can stay away.

This was more Chicago, but Cheveldayoff was involved, so but I get it. Hockey is not same anymore, we can agree on that. I haven't even watched that much of the WJCs

 

[ColinM]

I thought it would be Ottawa struggling with attendance this year. They are actually quite decent with a bad hockey team. Economics must be at play here,

So many people were determined to show everyone they were legit fans now that there is a new owner.

 

[ColinM]

Sorry if this was already brought up in the past 28 pages, but what are the odds the Manitoba Moose relocate? It seems like an easier lose for True North to eat and there will always be a market out there ready for an AHL team.

 

[Boonk]

Sorry if this was already brought up in the past 28 pages, but what are the odds the Manitoba Moose relocate? It seems like an easier lose for True North to eat and there will always be a market out there ready for an AHL team.

The Moose are not relocating and have no reason to as an AHL farm team.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Time to bring our team home to The Gathering at South Forsythe

This is not correct now. As of October 1, 2023, the Winnipeg metro area has 910,000 people, while the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area has 1,150,000. Winnipeg is expected to hit 1,000,000 people before the end of the decade. As for disproportionate support, the team sold out every single game for over 8 years. After COVID is when problems started to emerge.

I honestly think that if the business community steps up to the plate, and purchases 40% of the season tickets, Winnipeg should be fine, and that will not be very difficult with the right sales and marketing tactics.



Nothing to do with disappointing team performances. Everything to do with COVID, inflation, less disposable income since the end of COVID. It also has to do with the TNSE customer service. They took for granted the season ticket base, when there was a 5,000 person waiting list, and acted like fans were lucky to have the seats, and made no attempt to retain the ticket holders. They need to fire their entire PR team, and bring in a marketing team who knows what they are doing.


Nothing to do with nostalgia. It's all about disposable income, and the ability of the community to support the team. This is hardly unique to Winnipeg. Calgary, Ottawa, and other cities have been dealing with the same issues.

maybe Winnipeg just doesnt care about hockey…

 

[ColinM]

The Moose are not relocating and have no reason to as an AHL farm team.

They are AHL but they are redirecting ticket sales that could be going to the NHL team. Now that we see empty seats for the Jets, how many of those tickets would have been sold if not for the alternative of having been able to purchase Moose tickets.

 

[Boonk]

They are AHL but they are redirecting ticket sales that could be going to the NHL team. Now that we see empty seats for the Jets, how many of those tickets would have been sold if not for the alternative of having been able to purchase Moose tickets.

The whole point of the AHL is to be a farm development league. Aside from the indepedently owned AHL teams, the revenue stream from ticket sales for teams owned by their NHL parent orgs isnt crucial. Relocating the Moose to a further city that will increase travel expenses for callups is not going to solve anything what so ever and theres no financial nor logistical incentive for TNSE to move the AHL team they own in their building they own to somewhere else. They already tried in St. Johns and were poking around at the idea of hosting the AHL in Thunder Bay but it clearly didnt work for a reason. The current Jets-Moose arrangement is fine and its not going to change.

 

[joelef]

Youre one to talk. Have that same energy when Sid, Geno and co. hang up the skates and Pittsburgh is irrelevant again. You guys very much supported your team for sure when the 90s core evaporated and the team almost had to relocate after 2 cups ffs

He applying the same standards that Canadian fans have created for sun belt teams.

 

[edog37]

No matter what is said, you have replied with the exact comments half a dozen times, and add nothing to the conversation.

Go away.

No. Either live up to the standard you set or you go away.

He applying the same standards that Canadian fans have created for sun belt teams.

Precisely

 

[edog37]

Youre one to talk. Have that same energy when Sid, Geno and co. hang up the skates and Pittsburgh is irrelevant again. You guys very much supported your team for sure when the 90s core evaporated and the team almost had to relocate after 2 cups ffs

We never lost our team friend. You did. Either live up to the standard Canadian fans set for other fan bases or go away. The excuses & hypocrisy is most taxing. For years, I heard Canadian fans whine & start every negative thread under the sun regarding certain US markets. They touted how any Canadian market would be a gold mine. Well guess what, that has been thoroughly disproven. So apply the standard back on yourselves or stop complaining about other markets. What goes around comes around.

 

[93LEAFS]

This is not correct now. As of October 1, 2023, the Winnipeg metro area has 910,000 people, while the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area has 1,150,000. Winnipeg is expected to hit 1,000,000 people before the end of the decade. As for disproportionate support, the team sold out every single game for over 8 years. After COVID is when problems started to emerge.

Buffalo/WNY is significantly more populated. Manitoba has a population of about 1.4m, WNY has a population of about 2.8m (which includes areas like Rochester which is a drivable distance to go to games in Buffalo fairly often), and that's before getting into having about another 450k on the Canadian Niagara region, and Hamilton region just north of that has about 750k (although, I doubt many people are driving from Burlington to Buffalo often, but for people in Hamilton and Grimsby it's more reasonable.

Buffalo is a smaller market by NHL standards, but it has a fairly large drawing distance that is more inline with Vancouver than it would be the smaller Canadian markets like Winnipeg, Edmonton, Ottawa, and Calgary.