Winnipeg Naming Discussion pt. 2

[Back in the Bigs]

Not sure how well the campaign worked? Seriously? If not for the enduring love the city and even the entire country has had for the "lost" Winnipeg Jets, TNSE wouldn't have had a hope in hell of making this purchase or selling out in 15 minutes last week. That's always been the driving force behind trying to get the NHL back -- the memory of the Jets. The Moose had very little to do with it. That team was a placeholder, nothing more, nothing less.

TNSE may be putting up the cash, but everything is based on the financial investment of the fans. And a large majority of those fans want the Winnipeg Jets name back. TNSE would be foolish not to listen to them. It's also a lot easier to go with an established brand than to try and build a brand-new one. That's Marketing 101.

There's definitely some merit to your point, and I too would like them to be called the Jets. But, I've got a feeling they wont be, and so I, like most others, will support whatever they do call them. I kinda think that those who chant "Go Jets Go" if that isn't the team name, will start lookin' a little silly after a few games.

I'd also bet the farm that the whole place would have sold out just as fast if they had announced a team name of something other than the Jets the day they announced they had purchased the team.

More than anything, I really think most Manitobans are just happy as hell to be back in the NHL again.

 

[Whileee]

Not sure how well the campaign worked? Seriously? If not for the enduring love the city and even the entire country has had for the "lost" Winnipeg Jets, TNSE wouldn't have had a hope in hell of making this purchase or selling out in 15 minutes last week. That's always been the driving force behind trying to get the NHL back -- the memory of the Jets. The Moose had very little to do with it. That team was a placeholder, nothing more, nothing less.

TNSE may be putting up the cash, but everything is based on the financial investment of the fans. And a large majority of those fans want the Winnipeg Jets name back. TNSE would be foolish not to listen to them. It's also a lot easier to go with an established brand than to try and build a brand-new one. That's Marketing 101.

Seriously, ask any key person in TNSE whether the Moose and their fans were important. Ask Craig Heisinger, who could barely speak when thanking the Moose fans at the press conference. I am quite sure that they were not just a "placeholder", they actually helped build the financial basis for the NHL transaction.

There is no question that the avidity of the fans was important, as demonstrated by the highly successful season ticket campaign. I and many of my family, friends and colleagues were avid Jets fans from the very beginning, and most of us now have season's tickets for the new franchise. But I don't think that diminishing the role of the Moose, or overplaying the role of those who continued to discuss the ROTJ through the internet, accurately reflects how this came together. When the teams in Phoenix and Atlanta started to falter, there was a huge movement of enthusiasm among Winnipeg hockey fans hoping that the rumours would be true. Chipman and Thomson accurately read the market, and part of their decision to invest $170 million must have been the great fan support provided to the Moose. It should be no surprise that the TNSE rewarded the Moose fans with first crack at NHL tickets. In fact, well over half of all season ticket holders of the new team will be former STHs and corporate supporters of the Moose.

 

[Sunstroke]

Whileee misinformed

Whileee, I like Surge's post. It was one of the better ones to articulate how the Jet fans feel about the NHL's return. I'm not talking Moose or NHL fans( which of course will cross over to some extent int eh Jets fan group) I have thress Jets jerseys but cant wait to buy the new one!
Just bought a new Jets hat yesterday.

I think it was Jet fans that stepped up and partnered with moose ticket holders to get their STH numbers above 7000, also I beleive it was Jets fans that were mainly responsible for the remainder fo the tickets selling in 2mins and the waiting list of 8000 as well as the over 200,000 attempts to secure STH tickets online.

The moose played a part to be sure...but dont discount the part played by loyal and forever hopeful Jets fans who had their dreams come true on that fine Tuesday ( I think it should become the next offcial family day holiday for Manitoba).

You are mistaken about the disdain for the Moose ( it is really a desire for our Jets not a disdain for the Moose) There is nothing wrong with being pro Jets it dosnt mean anti Moose, and Jet fans are egually if not more responsible for the return of the Jets not the 2500 Moose STH's 2500 vs several hundred thousand , I'd take the Jets fans any day over the measley 2500, that have been over compensated with STH's already.

Go Jets Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

[cbcwpg]

Seriously, ask any key person in TNSE whether the Moose and their fans were important. Ask Craig Heisinger, who could barely speak when thanking the Moose fans at the press conference. I am quite sure that they were not just a "placeholder", they actually helped build the financial basis for the NHL transaction.

Exactly. Without the Moose and the support they had for 15 years, there would be no NHL coming back. Even though TNSE is the one cutting the cheque, they know who to thank to help make this happen... and that's why I got access to 4 STs instead of the 2 STs I was paying for, and why I got access 2 days before the public. TNSE has said , that the vast majority of Moose STHs were JET STHs ( NHL and WHA ) before that. Without this core base of fans showing support, the NHL was never coming back, because the message to TNSE wouldn't have been there.

It was Winnipegers desire for hockey, in any form, that helped make this happen.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Seriously, ask any key person in TNSE whether the Moose and their fans were important. Ask Craig Heisinger, who could barely speak when thanking the Moose fans at the press conference. I am quite sure that they were not just a "placeholder", they actually helped build the financial basis for the NHL transaction.

Thats a rhetorical question. I would give up my paycheque for 5 years if you can find one "key" person at TSNE to say publicly that the Moose and Moose fans weren't important.

Mark Chipman said on 590 with Bob McCown and Stephen Brunt that over 80 percent of the Moose season ticket holders were previously Jets season ticket holders. So...whats your point? We have 100s of thousands of hockey fans in Manitoba, which was evidenced by the fact that there were 250,000 hits / attempts to buy season tickets on Saturday, June 4th.

There is no question that the avidity of the fans was important, as demonstrated by the highly successful season ticket campaign. I and many of my family, friends and colleagues were avid Jets fans from the very beginning, and most of us now have season's tickets for the new franchise. But I don't think that diminishing the role of the Moose, or overplaying the role of those who continued to discuss the ROTJ through the internet, accurately reflects how this came together.

The only thing that accurately reflects how this came together was Mark Chipman and David Thomson writing a cheque to ASG for $170 million. They wrote that cheque after years of studying the economics of the NHL and similar sized Canadian markets and how the financial tide has turned in our favour since the lockout.

Nobody should diminish the role of the Moose played (particularly in building the new arena & to gain experience in running a professional hockey club). When I speak of the "Bring back the Jets" campaign, I'm not talking about internet posters or Darren Ford (though, their efforts shouldn't be diminished either) I'm talking about pre-season sellout games & the thousands of Winnipeggers who were lined up at the Emerson border enroute to the 2005 World Juniors in Grand Forks dawning their Jets gear.

One memory that will stay with me forever is when the TSN panel in Grand Forks was in the rotunda of the Ralph Engelstadt arena, trying to do their nightly analysis of Team Canada's WJ team. They were yelling through their microphones it was so loud. At this point Bob Mackenzie said "one of the great things about Canada and the World Juniors is that we have passionate fans here from coast to coast to coast. There's people here from Newfoundland and fans all the way from Vancouver"...at that very point in the telecast, you couldn't hear Bob anymore because the entire crowd of 3-4 thousand jammed into the lobby burst into the loudest chant I've ever heard. That chant was "GO JETS GO! GO JETS GO!"

When the teams in Phoenix and Atlanta started to falter, there was a huge movement of enthusiasm among Winnipeg hockey fans hoping that the rumours would be true. Chipman and Thomson accurately read the market, and part of their decision to invest $170 million must have been the great fan support provided to the Moose. It should be no surprise that the TNSE rewarded the Moose fans with first crack at NHL tickets. In fact, well over half of all season ticket holders of the new team will be former STHs and corporate supporters of the Moose.

Again, not diminishing the Moose, but if you think Thomson and Chipman were basing their analysis of the Winnipeg market largely on the 2500 Moose season ticket holders to cut that $170m cheque - I think you're the one who is overplaying things.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Holy crap.

There has been a lot of discussion about whether this market or that market "deserve" a franchise. Generally I think it's moot since as we've seen on numerous occasions, the NHL is merely a business. That said, if a market is going to get uppity about the team's nickname, and possibly not support it as much if it's named this instead of that, I have to wonder to what extent that market "deserves" a team.

wtf

 

[Andy6]

Not sure how well the campaign worked? Seriously? If not for the enduring love the city and even the entire country has had for the "lost" Winnipeg Jets, TNSE wouldn't have had a hope in hell of making this purchase or selling out in 15 minutes last week.

In the case of the Jets, absence certainly seemed to make the heart grow fonder. A lot of people tended to take them for granted, and often to be rather negative or cynical about them, when they actually existed. Which was too bad because, even though they didn't have much success in the playoffs, they had more than their fair share of top-calibre players.

 

[AugustBurnsRed*]

Globe and Mail referred to the team as the Winnipeg Jets in an article today.. take it for what it's worth

 

[cbcwpg]

Globe and Mail referred to the team as the Winnipeg Jets in an article today.. take it for what it's worth

It's because Winnipeg Jets has a better sound to it and takes up less space then the... Winnipeg to be named later possibly before the draft but now maybe after or in 2 weeks'

ENOUGH ALREADY.... Just name the thing!!

 

[AugustBurnsRed*]

It's because Winnipeg Jets has a better sound to it and takes up less space then the... Winnipeg to be named later possibly before the draft but now maybe after or in 2 weeks'

ENOUGH ALREADY.... Just name the thing!!

No it's cause Thomson leaked it to The G&M

 

[Metzen]

I don't know if anyone has connected the dots for the updated register of the Winnipeg Jet's trademark. The trademark has a "Security Agreement Placed on File" and the representative? A winnipeg firm called Pitblado LLP. Apparently, they have ownership stakes with True North.

Bruce King, managing partner of Pitblado LLP, says the growing number of healthy aboriginal-owned businesses is also keeping lawyers hopping. The biggest and most mainstream by far is the Tribal Councils Investment Group of Manitoba. Representing 55 Manitoba First Nations and more than 100,000 First Nation members, it has meaningful ownership stakes in Arctic Beverages, Perimeter Airlines, Bieber Securities, Big Freight Systems, First Canadian Fuels, First Nations Bank of Canada, True North Sports & Entertainment, Paragon Pharmacies, Westfield REIT, and Radisson Hotels.

I don't quite understand what a security agreement is though. CIPO explains it as:

Security Agreements

Publication Date: 1987-04-08

The Registrar of Trade Marks will permit the placement of "Security Agreements" on the files of trade marks in the circumstances where such trade marks have been put up as security. Notes to this effect may be entered on the register on payment of the amendment fee of $25.00. An example of the note places on the register in a recent case was "Security Agreement Placed on File - Jan. 1987".

 

[Positive]

Holy crap.

There has been a lot of discussion about whether this market or that market "deserve" a franchise. Generally I think it's moot since as we've seen on numerous occasions, the NHL is merely a business. That said, if a market is going to get uppity about the team's nickname, and possibly not support it as much if it's named this instead of that, I have to wonder to what extent that market "deserves" a team.

wtf

It's like naming a child, so bugger off.

 

[King_Stannis]

Holy crap.

There has been a lot of discussion about whether this market or that market "deserve" a franchise. Generally I think it's moot since as we've seen on numerous occasions, the NHL is merely a business. That said, if a market is going to get uppity about the team's nickname, and possibly not support it as much if it's named this instead of that, I have to wonder to what extent that market "deserves" a team.

wtf

Alternatively, some markets probably wouldn't give a crap what their team was named, as they lack the passion and history of other markets. Does the fact that they wouldn't care what their team was named mean they "deserve" their team any more, or that they just don't care?

 

[Positive]

Alternatively, some markets probably wouldn't give a crap what their team was named, as they lack the passion and history of other markets. Does the fact that they wouldn't care what their team was named mean they "deserve" their team any more, or that they just don't care?

Thank you for that alternative perspective, King. But yeah, the Winnipeg hockey community is passionate about the Jets brand. There's nothing wrong with that. We care about what the team is named. Remember that some of us are committed to tens of thousands of dollars in the next few years.

Sort of like when you ask an Apple fan if he cares if his products have the apple logo on them, or if they are 'official' or came from the Apple store. They're fully into the kool-aid/apple juice. They love the brand. Ask a PC user...they probably don't know or care who built their box or the components in it.

Me, I could live with a new name. It's why I've been suggesting a fair share of them.

 

[WingsFan95]

I'm gonna go to a Jets game sometime within the next 5 years.

I will wear a Jets jersey ( yes a first since I abhor wearing other teams jerseys ).

I'm sure I won't be alone.


^ This is all assuming the Jets name is not back.

What I think would be a huge cash cow is if TNSE made the team another logo and then the Yotes moved to a Canadian market, likely Quebec City. The Phoenix/Winnipeg history of that franchise would surely be wiped and then TNSE could officially bring back the brand and people would again buy jets gear.


Just saying.

 

[Positive]

I'm gonna go to a Jets game sometime within the next 5 years.

I will wear a Jets jersey ( yes a first since I abhor wearing other teams jerseys ).

I'm sure I won't be alone.


^ This is all assuming the Jets name is not back.

What I think would be a huge cash cow is if TNSE made the team another logo and then the Yotes moved to a Canadian market, likely Quebec City. The Phoenix/Winnipeg history of that franchise would surely be wiped and then TNSE could officially bring back the brand and people would again buy jets gear.


Just saying.

That's an interesting point. A somewhat cynical one, and one that fans of Phoenix would not like to entertain, but very interesting, and I wonder if this has crossed the minds of TNSE when it comes to the history conflict.

 

[DeathToAllButMetal]

Don't mean to slam the Moose, but I don't think they played any serious role here beyond providing the tenant to keep the rink going. And I do think the team history will be available sooner rather than later, so there is no argument there to avoid the Jets name.

Anyhow, cup final will be over on Wednesday, so we'll know soon enough.

 

[cutchemist42]

Hoping for the best, expecting the worst....

 

[cbcwpg]

No it's cause Thomson leaked it to The G&M

Maybe, lol.

But, honestly, I think we are just in a situation of TNSE having second thoughts.

If the name of this new team was to be the Winnipeg Jets, then that announcement would have been made at the exact same time as TNSE held thier presser and announced they were getting the team. With the vast majority of people wanting that name, there would have been no reason to delay the annoucement.

The fact that TNSE is delaying the announcement of the name , means that thier intent was to call it something other than the Winnipeg Jets from day one, BUT because of public outcry, they are now not sure what to do.

Go with something other than Winnipeg Jets, there will be a public backlash. Not sure how long that would last for and maybe it will blow-over quickly, but the last thing I want to see is thousands of people chanting "Go Jets Go" at the home opener, when the team is not the Jets. I know I will cheer for the team regardless what it is called, but others will have issues.

The old business expression is " The Customer is Always Right!". Well maybe not always, but maybe TNSE needs to listen to them and announce the name they want.

 

[Jet]

Take this for what it's worth, but this site is reporting that True North has told them they will announce the name Thursday.

Keep in mind they also said they would announce the name last Wednesday when Andrew Ladd was here, and that of course never happened.

I give this site zero credibility, but any name news at this point is welcome.

http://www.winnipeghockey.com/

 

[borno87]

Take this for what it's worth, but this site is reporting that True North has told them they will announce the name Thursday.

Keep in mind they also said they would announce the name last Wednesday when Andrew Ladd was here, and that of course never happened.

I give this site zero credibility, but any name news at this point is welcome.

http://www.winnipeghockey.com/

Worth zero, squat, zilch, nada.

Amateur website making the amateur mistake of making stuff up to get some page views.

Discourage that kind of rumor mongering by not clicking that link.

 

[Positive]

Maybe, lol.

But, honestly, I think we are just in a situation of TNSE having second thoughts.

If the name of this new team was to be the Winnipeg Jets, then that announcement would have been made at the exact same time as TNSE held thier presser and announced they were getting the team. With the vast majority of people wanting that name, there would have been no reason to delay the annoucement.

The fact that TNSE is delaying the announcement of the name , means that thier intent was to call it something other than the Winnipeg Jets from day one, BUT because of public outcry, they are now not sure what to do.

Go with something other than Winnipeg Jets, there will be a public backlash. Not sure how long that would last for and maybe it will blow-over quickly, but the last thing I want to see is thousands of people chanting "Go Jets Go" at the home opener, when the team is not the Jets. I know I will cheer for the team regardless what it is called, but others will have issues.

The old business expression is " The Customer is Always Right!". Well maybe not always, but maybe TNSE needs to listen to them and announce the name they want.

Yep. Actually I am thinking it is more than likely it will not be the Jets at this point.

From a business-only standpoint, 'Jets' is the best decision, hands down.

From a Jets fan standpoint, in the way of nostalgia and sentiment, then of course 'Jets' is the best decision.

Chipman is a businessman and a fan. So it makes sense that 'Jets' is his only choice no? Well, not really. For two reasons:

1. I feel that Chipman is a fan of hockey history. Looking at interviews he's had with Bruins photos in the background, memorabilia in his office, his comments about 'not owning the history', etc. I believe that there is a bit of hockey historian in him. And he's right...the Jets franchise is now in Phoenix. Hull, Steen, Numminen, and Hawerchuk's numbers have been retired by the Coyotes. All the books show the Phoenix Coyotes as having been founded in Winnipeg in 1972 in the WHA. The records show that and their all-time leading scorer is Dale Hawerchuk, and their record for most goals in a season is Teemu's at 76. Our 'Winnipeg NHL team', was founded in 1999 in Atlanta. Our all-time franchise leading scorer is Ilya Kovalchuk.

The Jets have been the Coyotes for 15 years out of 32 in the NHL, and that is significant. We don't own the history anymore. We have memories. That franchise has moved to Phoenix. We would just be pretending, for the most part. Would a lot of people be happy with that? Sure, I would. Would a hockey historian be? Nope, not really.

2. Ego. Not that I think that Chipman is an egomaniac or anything. But lets be honest, he's a self-made man who has worked extraordinarily hard to make great things happen in Winnipeg over the years. Establishing new brand names, running a great facility. He strikes me as the type who would welcome the challenge of establishing a team under a new name, and without resting on the laurels of the past. He brought the NHL back to Winnipeg...damn that's pretty hard to begin with. He's a bit of a visionary. He's got to have been entertaining the potential and possibilities of a new brand. And of course theres a bit of pride involved too. What if he wants to name the team after some personal connection? That's his right.

Whatever the case, I'm extremely excited at the prospects. I'd be happy with 'Jets', but totally understanding if it was something else. I'm 50/50 right now. I still hate 'Polar Bears' or 'Moose' though.

 

[Jet]

Worth zero, squat, zilch, nada.

Amateur website making the amateur mistake of making stuff up to get some page views.

Discourage that kind of rumor mongering by not clicking that link.

Meh, it's not like anything else is going on right now.

I leave it up to others to decide what they want to believe.

 

[peter sullivan]

i have thought for a year and half that there is no way it would be the jets...now i think there is no way it wont be....anything else will cause an outrage by a large part of the population no matter how good it is...nobody desperatly wants it to be something else but many desperatly want it to be the jets....there are only varrying degrees of second best as far as other names are concerned.

there is no way they had all this time and didnt have a name and logo made up....they are balking under the wave of public pressure for sure.

if it were me i would announce it with the seventh overall pick at the draft....unveil it on stage when he walks up....what a way to steal the show....huge bang for the buck...would dominate the discussion and headlines.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

The only way I want the Jets to return is if the NHL not only gives the name but also the history of the Jets to the True North Franchise.

1) The name and all history of the Jets transfer to the True North Farnchise.

2) All Jets history is removed from the Phoenix Coyotes. Nobody in Phoenix cares about Hawerchuk or Hull or Steen or Essensa . Just start their history and records in 1996. All the banners etc are taken down.

3) All history of the Atlanta Thrashers stays in Atlanta. They become a defunct franchise. Like the Seattle Metropolitans, or Ottawa Silver Sevens.

Just giving them the name back isn't good enough. They need the history. And I think that is what True North is trying to do. If they can't, then they shouldn't be the Jets.