Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[Buffdog]

Fair enough. I'll rephrase it.
If Ehlers had played better (but no one else did) and scored a goal a game, it would still have been as I listed, or so close as to make no difference.

It was a team loss.

Yes.... and no

Timing and sequence of the goals matter too. If we're up one and we score another, it causes the Avs to have to press to get one back and that creats openings for us to score again. It happened to us a few times where we tied it up or went up one and the next goal was pivotal.

Same can be said for big saves... it's not always just how many a goalie makes, but when. Same true for penalties and powerplays

It's like the old "butterfly flapping it's wings starts a hurricane" saying.

Not everything in hockey can be boiled down to numbers and equations. Momentum and emotions are real, and they affect players and how they play and how hard they compete

 

[WolfHouse]

Yes.... and no

Timing and sequence of the goals matter too. If we're up one and we score another, it causes the Avs to have to press to get one back and that creats openings for us to score again. It happened to us a few times where we tied it up or went up one and the next goal was pivotal.

Same can be said for big saves... it's not always just how many a goalie makes, but when. Same true for penalties and powerplays

It's like the old "butterfly flapping it's wings starts a hurricane" saying.

Not everything in hockey can be boiled down to numbers and equations. Momentum and emotions are real, and they affect players and how they play and how hard they compete

I'd like to see the analytics on refs... missed calls etc - like if the vilardi high stick is treated like every other missed high stick and not video reviewed maybe the Jets stay in that game...

 

[Eyeseeing]

Correct me if necessary, but I believe Santa Claus wrestles in the off-season.

With his weight yes FACT

 

[SUX2BU]

Ok great replies, i get what you are saying.....

Not science, statistics …….

 

[Eyeseeing]

Not science, statistics …….

Science is... Whatever we want it to be
Dr Leo Spaceman

 

[ello]

This is the most annoying time to be a fan. Out it in like the first 10 days of playoffs so more hockey but no first round pick to look forward to and discuss

 

[DRW204]

Fair enough. I'll rephrase it.
If Ehlers had played better (but no one else did) and scored a goal a game, it would still have been as I listed, or so close as to make no difference.

It was a team loss.

yes you win and lose at a team. but the 2 biggest offenders in underperforming are Helle and Ehlers.

if folks want to continuously put them on a high pedestal or above the rest of the players on the team (in the regular season), then they probably should call out when they have been barely performing to that standard in high stakes situations. so much redirection/deflection or whataboutism when it comes to those two.

 

[gojetsgo]

yes you win and lose at a team. but the 2 biggest offenders in underperforming are Helle and Ehlers.

if folks want to continuously put them on a high pedestal or above the rest of the players on the team (in the regular season), then they probably should call out when they have been barely performing to that standard in high stakes situations. so much redirection/deflection or whataboutism when it comes to those two.

yup, if people are going to claim ehlers is a top 10 winger in the nhl then they should not be defending his playoff performances

 

[Buffdog]

yup, if people are going to claim ehlers is a top 10 winger in the nhl then they should not be defending his playoff performances

They just move the goalposts to whatever "advanced stat" confirms their bias

"Sure, Ehlers has only scored 4 goals in 37 playoff games but his xGF% is 50.000001 so he's outchancing his opposition when he's on the ice"

 

[sipowicz]

They just move the goalposts to whatever "advanced stat" confirms their bias

"Sure, Ehlers has only scored 4 goals in 37 playoff games but his xGF% is 50.000001 so he's outchancing his opposition when he's on the ice"

And turning the puck over at every chance he gets.....bottom line, Ehlers isn't a playoff performer!

Time to move him!

 

[bumblebeeman]

yes you win and lose at a team. but the 2 biggest offenders in underperforming are Helle and Ehlers.

if folks want to continuously put them on a high pedestal or above the rest of the players on the team (in the regular season), then they probably should call out when they have been barely performing to that standard in high stakes situations. so much redirection/deflection or whataboutism when it comes to those two.

I don't think it's how that works. They are fan favourites for good reason (they are good and fun to watch). That doesn't mean they need extra blame when things go bad. Sure it would be nice if they played better, but the whole team sucked.

Like Ehlers sucked the same as Monahan and Toffoli on his line, maybe even a bit less. But you want people to be angrier at Ehlers because other times they love him more, and you want it to get balanced out?

 

[Buffdog]

I don't think it's how that works. They are fan favourites for good reason (they are good and fun to watch). That doesn't mean they need extra blame when things go bad. Sure it would be nice if they played better, but the whole team sucked.

Like Ehlers sucked the same as Monahan and Toffoli on his line, maybe even a bit less. But you want people to be angrier at Ehlers because other times they love him more, and you want it to get balanced out?

Monahan and Toffoli aren't trotted around these boards as "elite, top 10 in the league" at their positions by anyone like Ehlers is

 

[BoneDocUK]

I don't think it's how that works. They are fan favourites for good reason (they are good and fun to watch). That doesn't mean they need extra blame when things go bad. Sure it would be nice if they played better, but the whole team sucked.

Like Ehlers sucked the same as Monahan and Toffoli on his line, maybe even a bit less. But you want people to be angrier at Ehlers because other times they love him more, and you want it to get balanced out?

This.

Besides, the board has called Ehlers out plenty for his poor play in the POs. For weeks.

There's lots of it to go round. Monahan and Toffee were lousy. PP hero Vilardi was invisible. Team D sucked. KFC played some great games but couldn't lift his line to dominance. Pionk was brutal. Stanley was largely crap. Helle looked very, very ordinary. Our 3rd line played well and the 4th did what they could. Coaching was absolutely clueless.

Sure, the Avs were good. But Dallas seems to be able to play them. For a whole lot of reasons, including but by no means entirely due to the poor play of Ehlers, we rwere absolutely steamrolled by a team that may get knocked out by the 2nd round.

Ehlers was lousy for much of the series, but so was the whole effing team, outside of a few players. It just seems weird to keep rehashing the argument, especially when the player is likely gone, and has been a terrifically productive and entertaining player for the duration of his time here, as well as a solid teammate and great team ambassador off-ice.

Ehlers ain't great in the playoffs. We get it. Maybe it needs to be a subforum sticky, so no one here ever forgets.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

This.

Besides, the board has called Ehlers out plenty for his poor play in the POs. For weeks.

There's lots of it to go round. Monahan and Toffee were lousy. PP hero Vilardi was invisible. Team D sucked. KFC played some great games but couldn't lift his line to dominance. Pionk was brutal. Stanley was largely crap. Helle looked very, very ordinary. Our 3rd line played well and the 4th did what they could. Coaching was absolutely clueless.

Sure, the Avs were good. But Dallas seems to be able to play them. For a whole lot of reasons, including but by no means entirely due to the poor play of Ehlers, we rwere absolutely steamrolled by a team that may get knocked out by the 2nd round.

Ehlers was lousy for much of the series, but so was the whole effing team, outside of a few players. It just seems weird to keep rehashing the argument, especially when the player is likely gone, and has been a terrifically productive and entertaining player for the duration of his time here, as well as a solid teammate and great team ambassador off-ice.

Ehlers ain't great in the playoffs. We get it. Maybe it needs to be a subforum sticky, so no one here ever forgets.

This is the one.

 

[Buffdog]

This.

Besides, the board has called Ehlers out plenty for his poor play in the POs. For weeks.

There's lots of it to go round. Monahan and Toffee were lousy. PP hero Vilardi was invisible. Team D sucked. KFC played some great games but couldn't lift his line to dominance. Pionk was brutal. Stanley was largely crap. Helle looked very, very ordinary. Our 3rd line played well and the 4th did what they could. Coaching was absolutely clueless.

Sure, the Avs were good. But Dallas seems to be able to play them. For a whole lot of reasons, including but by no means entirely due to the poor play of Ehlers, we rwere absolutely steamrolled by a team that may get knocked out by the 2nd round.

Ehlers was lousy for much of the series, but so was the whole effing team, outside of a few players. It just seems weird to keep rehashing the argument, especially when the player is likely gone, and has been a terrifically productive and entertaining player for the duration of his time here, as well as a solid teammate and great team ambassador off-ice.

Ehlers ain't great in the playoffs. We get it. Maybe it needs to be a subforum sticky, so no one here ever forgets.

I think people are confusing the backlash as being directed at Ehlers, but it's actually towards the posters who diefy him.

In fairness, there's only a handful but they seem to be the most vocal and the most stubborn on the topic

 

[Joe Hallenback]

This.

Besides, the board has called Ehlers out plenty for his poor play in the POs. For weeks.

There's lots of it to go round. Monahan and Toffee were lousy. PP hero Vilardi was invisible. Team D sucked. KFC played some great games but couldn't lift his line to dominance. Pionk was brutal. Stanley was largely crap. Helle looked very, very ordinary. Our 3rd line played well and the 4th did what they could. Coaching was absolutely clueless.

Sure, the Avs were good. But Dallas seems to be able to play them. For a whole lot of reasons, including but by no means entirely due to the poor play of Ehlers, we rwere absolutely steamrolled by a team that may get knocked out by the 2nd round.

Ehlers was lousy for much of the series, but so was the whole effing team, outside of a few players. It just seems weird to keep rehashing the argument, especially when the player is likely gone, and has been a terrifically productive and entertaining player for the duration of his time here, as well as a solid teammate and great team ambassador off-ice.

Ehlers ain't great in the playoffs. We get it. Maybe it needs to be a subforum sticky, so no one here ever forgets.

This is fairly accurate

The team was far to easy to play against in the playoffs. I would keep Morrisey/DeMelo/Dillon/Samberg and bring in 2 new D on the back end if I could.

I am ok with keeping or trading Ehlers. I think you trade Ehlers if you can't resign him. I try and move Pionk as well. Schmidt isn't tradeable maybe you buy him out.

My gut feeling is one of DeMelo/Dillon walk and we go into the season with Morrissey/Schmidt/Samberg/Pionk/Stanley/ and one of those guys. Heinloa gets a chance in the lineup again and maybe he can run with it. Let Salo develop in the AHL a year and hopefully promote him the following year.

If Ehlers doesn't sign you trade him and get what you can for him. My preference would be a pick/prospect package and send him out east. I would also look at moving one of Iaffalo and/or Appleton for draft picks. Do some internal promotion whether that be high end guys like Lambert/Chibrikov or low end guys like Ford.

The team during the regular season when it plays the way Bones set us up to play can beat anyone and go on long winning streaks.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

This.

Besides, the board has called Ehlers out plenty for his poor play in the POs. For weeks.

There's lots of it to go round. Monahan and Toffee were lousy. PP hero Vilardi was invisible. Team D sucked. KFC played some great games but couldn't lift his line to dominance. Pionk was brutal. Stanley was largely crap. Helle looked very, very ordinary. Our 3rd line played well and the 4th did what they could. Coaching was absolutely clueless.

Sure, the Avs were good. But Dallas seems to be able to play them. For a whole lot of reasons, including but by no means entirely due to the poor play of Ehlers, we rwere absolutely steamrolled by a team that may get knocked out by the 2nd round.

Ehlers was lousy for much of the series, but so was the whole effing team, outside of a few players. It just seems weird to keep rehashing the argument, especially when the player is likely gone, and has been a terrifically productive and entertaining player for the duration of his time here, as well as a solid teammate and great team ambassador off-ice.

Ehlers ain't great in the playoffs. We get it. Maybe it needs to be a subforum sticky, so no one here ever forgets.

If it was reversed, and KFC had the series Ehlers had, and Ehlers played like KFC, we'd never hear the end of it. KFC never had a reputation (in these parts) for "lifting his line", why is that now being introduced?

That's Ehlers reputation, zone entries and line-driver. I'm not big on Toffoli or Monahan, but they are 2nd line players, and Ehlers didn't lift his line on secondary coverage. He's the puck carrier, and they were basically reduced to being mannequins. Coming into the series, Monahan's career playoff production is similar to his regular season production.

And this isn't new. You cited being impressed by Ehlers in the Montreal series two years ago, which I'll never understand. This series is a continuum for Ehlers, like in other key losses to Vegas in '18, the Blues, Montreal, and again vs the Avs. It's not isolated, it's a tradition.

 

[10Ducky10]

The guy I wanted (Lindholm) Chevy to get at the trade deadline has 5 goals these playoffs. Ehlers has 4 in his career.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Monahan and Toffoli aren't trotted around these boards as "elite, top 10 in the league" at their positions by anyone like Ehlers is

And that means Ehlers deserves more blame because .... ?

 

[Buffdog]

And that means Ehlers deserves more blame because .... ?

Because more was expected of him. If Kupari doesn't score in the playoffs, nobody cares. If Mcdavid doesn't score in the playoffs, it's an issue

This shouldn't be this hard for folks to understand

 

[bumblebeeman]

Because more was expected of him. If Kupari doesn't score in the playoffs, nobody cares. If Mcdavid doesn't score in the playoffs, it's an issue

This shouldn't be this hard for folks to understand

Why would you even compare Ehlers to Mcdavid? He is a solid 2nd line winger.... playing on a 2nd line that was terrible.

My point anyways the Jets all sucked, I don't think he needs to be singled out. He was maybe the teams 4th best forward, which is what he is.

 

[gojetsgo]

Why would you even compare Ehlers to Mcdavid? He is a solid 2nd line winger.... playing on a 2nd line that was terrible.

My point anyways the Jets all sucked, I don't think he needs to be singled out. He was maybe the teams 4th best forward, which is what he is.

because people on this board have called him our best forward and some said he's a top 10 winger in the league, every thread during the regular season had people complaining about his usage, so of course when he completely underperforms more then others he will be singled out, we even had people writing think pieces about our 1st line struggling being the reason why ehlers wasn't performing after game 2...

 

[WolfHouse]

Team has a divide in personnel and deployment... then top that off with ignoring chemistry between some players and doubling down on chemistry with others...

If Scheif doesn't want him on his line, Ehlers played best with Names; Connor looked great with Monahan; Gus was really solid with Lowry... would be nice to have a coach/mgmt that combined the eye test/analytics to maximize deployment - then craft your scheme around that

We don't have a true top line.... so roll the lines - like we did when we were winning in the first half

 

[DRW204]

I don't think it's how that works. They are fan favourites for good reason (they are good and fun to watch). That doesn't mean they need extra blame when things go bad. Sure it would be nice if they played better, but the whole team sucked.

Like Ehlers sucked the same as Monahan and Toffoli on his line, maybe even a bit less. But you want people to be angrier at Ehlers because other times they love him more, and you want it to get balanced out?

it's not extra blame.

b/c they love him more? wtf are you talking about. ehlers' regular season play is among some of the best in the league in a myriad of stats: 5v5 pts, gf vs ga, zone entries etc. look where he ranks among the Fwds. watch the Jets latest plays of the year for instance and and how much ehlers is in it compared to other Fwds. has nothing to do w/ how "others love him more," rather it's based on his quality of play and production.

has his PO play been up to that standard? players like ehlers, helle (obviously) playing up to their typical quality of play will have a bigger impact on winning than guys like monahan or toffoli. that's why there's larger discussion on the first 2 players in PO let-downs.

 

[DRW204]

This.

Besides, the board has called Ehlers out plenty for his poor play in the POs. For weeks.

There's lots of it to go round. Monahan and Toffee were lousy. PP hero Vilardi was invisible. Team D sucked. KFC played some great games but couldn't lift his line to dominance. Pionk was brutal. Stanley was largely crap. Helle looked very, very ordinary. Our 3rd line played well and the 4th did what they could. Coaching was absolutely clueless.

Sure, the Avs were good. But Dallas seems to be able to play them. For a whole lot of reasons, including but by no means entirely due to the poor play of Ehlers, we rwere absolutely steamrolled by a team that may get knocked out by the 2nd round.

Ehlers was lousy for much of the series, but so was the whole effing team, outside of a few players. It just seems weird to keep rehashing the argument, especially when the player is likely gone, and has been a terrifically productive and entertaining player for the duration of his time here, as well as a solid teammate and great team ambassador off-ice.

Ehlers ain't great in the playoffs. We get it. Maybe it needs to be a subforum sticky, so no one here ever forgets.

lol so do you go around lobbying for stickies on constant topics like pionk and stanley being shit, scheifele + connor sucking on defense? or is it b/c you constantly ride ehlers' dick you're crying for everyone to stop?

The guy I wanted (Lindholm) Chevy to get at the trade deadline has 5 goals these playoffs. Ehlers has 4 in his career.

ehlers will go 4 years in between PO goals.
but hey, it's the same as everyone else! like Tofolli (2 goals this year), Lowry (2 goals) or KFC (3 goals) etc,