Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agree that the expectations are somewhat skewed by perceived need but Salomonsson has been legitimately good in his D+1 and D+2 seasons. In particular, he became a mainstay of the D for an SHL champion at the age of 19 last season. That's an uncommonly good performance at that age and stage of development.

My observation is that in his D+1 season as an 18 year-old he still had some rawness in his puck-handling and decisions with the puck, so his main role was defensively. He was learning to use his skating and natural aggressiveness to play a solid defensive game. As a 19 year-old in D+2 season you could see that his puck-handling had become much more confident and he started to become more and more involved in transition and offensively, while continuing to improve his defensive play.

The foundation of his game is his really good defensive play, where he closes gaps quickly and aggressively in all zones using his mobility and decent size. He also became more quick and confident in moving the puck in his D zone, so his retrieval and puck movement is a strength. Those attributes create a high floor for him as an NHL prospect. You could see these strengths in the Jets' camp last season.

His ceiling will be determined by how much his offense develops. I think it's an area that has been improving quickly. He produced quite a bit of offense without much PP time at all. His point totals don't look very impressive, but he produced as much or more at even-strength than the other D on his team (including highly-touted offensive D Sandin-Pellika). Later in the season and into the playoffs (and in the Champion's League) he showed a lot of offensive dash and confidence. He's so young that I think he still can add a lot more offense. He'll never be a Quinn Hughes or Morrissey type of offensive D because he doesn't "dance and dangle" with the puck, but he could become more like the way Trouba played offensively with the Jets - using his speed to be strong in transition, and aggressive in the offensive zone.

The thing I like right now is his trajectory. Recently he has come to each new season a step above where he left off the season before. If he comes to TC that way again, he could make the Jets out of TC this year, though Moose is more likely. But he could be ready to be the first callup when there are injuries.

 

[Whileee]

The thing I like right now is his trajectory. Recently he has come to each new season a step above where he left off the season before. If he comes to TC that way again, he could make the Jets out of TC this year, though Moose is more likely. But he could be ready to be the first callup when there are injuries.

Agree. Remember that he was actually very good at training camp last year (playing beside Morrissey) before injury shortened his camp and pre-season. He showed a lot of poise along with his obvious skating and skills. He's now had another full season in the Swedish Elite League, including plenty of exposure in the Champion's League and playoffs in a top-pair level of role. I think it will be a stretch for him to make the Jets out of training camp (especially with Miller re-signed), but I think he'll be a viable call-up this season when the Jets have injuries. Part of the issue is the Jets' roster numbers and waiver eligibility. If they don't trade away a D (highly unlikely without getting one in return), they already have 7 D that require waivers...

Morrissey-DeMelo
Samberg-Pionk
Heinola-Miller
Stanley

One D to keep an eye on is Stanley. He's been very much maligned (including by me), especially after the very unwise decision to insert him into a pair with Samberg in the playoffs. But I think he has been improving year by year, and I think Arniel still likes him. His mobility and decision-making has been improving, and if he has a good off-season to improve his quickness and mobility, I think his decision-making and puck movement is good enough for a bottom-pair D. The Jets might be completely wrong about Stanley (and maybe retain some bias because of the moves to draft him), but he wouldn't be the first big, gangly D that didn't really show much until age 25 or 26. I hope he can be a reasonable 6-7 D for the Jets this season and beyond.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agree. Remember that he was actually very good at training camp last year (playing beside Morrissey) before injury shortened his camp and pre-season. He showed a lot of poise along with his obvious skating and skills. He's now had another full season in the Swedish Elite League, including plenty of exposure in the Champion's League and playoffs in a top-pair level of role. I think it will be a stretch for him to make the Jets out of training camp (especially with Miller re-signed), but I think he'll be a viable call-up this season when the Jets have injuries. Part of the issue is the Jets' roster numbers and waiver eligibility. If they don't trade away a D (highly unlikely without getting one in return), they already have 7 D that require waivers...

Morrissey-DeMelo
Samberg-Pionk
Heinola-Miller
Stanley

One D to keep an eye on is Stanley. He's been very much maligned (including by me), especially after the very unwise decision to insert him into a pair with Samberg in the playoffs. But I think he has been improving year by year, and I think Arniel still likes him. His mobility and decision-making has been improving, and if he has a good off-season to improve his quickness and mobility, I think his decision-making and puck movement is good enough for a bottom-pair D. The Jets might be completely wrong about Stanley (and maybe retain some bias because of the moves to draft him), but he wouldn't be the first big, gangly D that didn't really show much until age 25 or 26. I hope he can be a reasonable 6-7 D for the Jets this season and beyond.

Fleury, Coghlan and Lundmark all also require waivers.

Stanley's decision making may have improved. I don't think his mobility has. If he can just improve his foot speed a little bit he becomes viable, IMO.

 

[voyageur]

Fleury, Coghlan and Lundmark all also require waivers.

Stanley's decision making may have improved. I don't think his mobility has. If he can just improve his foot speed a little bit he becomes viable, IMO.

He's still been a rather solid PKer when called upon and the Jets will be looking for special teams improvement, and be looking to replace one of their PK regulars..this is where I wonder if we'll see more 7 d alignments out of Arniel. I know he used it at least once last year to get Stanley some action...Heinola is far from a certainty to get unprotected minutes, this could be a case where both players get action in different roles. Gives the defense a different look too...still hard to see the Jets not carrying 8.d-men next year, I don't think they can afford to lose Fleury to waivers, and he ironically played some limited minutes as a 7th d-man, in PK role with the Lightning. Though part of me says that Fleury could also be the guy to play alongside Salomonsson in his development year, if the Jets want a vet to help a rookie along getting important special team reps in his 1st season on the Moose. Sauntner is not a guy I think you can lean on in that respect. Even though he will certainly kill penalties on the farm.

 

[WolfHouse]

It's laughable to see the excuses made for Stan while we throw away klva, chisholm, gawanke and write them off as lovers

Now we will throw away coghlan, Lundmark and fleury and say it's nothing

And it is 'kind of' except one of those guys might have bumped pionk given the same chances Stan had

Edit: now I'm terrified of the autocorrect my phone does on business emails hahaha

 

[Buffdog]

It's laughable to see the excuses made for Stan while we throw away klva, chisholm, gawanke and write them off as lovers

Now we will throw away coghlan, Lundmark and fleury and say it's nothing

And it is 'kind of' except one of those guys might have bumped pionk given the same chances Stan had

Nobody is bumping Pionk, regardless of how well they play or how poorly he plays

 

[Whileee]

Fleury, Coghlan and Lundmark all also require waivers.

Stanley's decision making may have improved. I don't think his mobility has. If he can just improve his foot speed a little bit he becomes viable, IMO.

I think Stanley's mobility has improved somewhat, or at least he's making faster decisions so he isn't getting caught out of position as much. I think he can still improve his mobility somewhat, and agree that if he does he becomes more viable as a depth / 3rd pair option.

I think Fleury, Coghlan and Lundmark are destined for assignment as organizational depth unless they really stand out in training camp.

 

[Stumbledore]

It's laughable to see the excuses made for Stan while we throw away klva, chisholm, gawanke and write them off as lovers.

If they'd been fighters instead of lovers, they might still be with the team.

 

[WolfHouse]

Nobody is bumping Pionk, regardless of how well they play or how poorly he plays

It's a bit scary - he falls off the same cliff that scheif does

If they'd been fighters instead of lovers, they might still be with the team.

They lied when they said love is all you need

 

[TS Quint]

Salomonsson is going to be hard to send down.

 

[Whileee]

View attachment 900555

Salomonsson is going to be hard to send down.

I know you're here to "pump us up", but I agree about Salomonsson.

I expect him to show a lot during camp and be viewed by fans and media as a player that deserves a longer look. I think the big question with Salomonsson might be about his development. He might well be ready for a sheltered 3rd pair NHL role now, but I think the Jets might want to give him a run in the AHL to get more experience in a bigger role to enhance his development. There is also the numbers issue - if Salomonsson stays and plays, they'll need to find a place to send Stanley or Heinola.

I still wonder about whether the Jets are contemplating including Heinola in a trade, either alone or as part of a package (with McGroarty or Ehlers). With Fleury signed and the Jets still projecting Stanley as an NHL contributor you wonder whether the Jets might see Heinola as a trade asset more than a long-term part of their D roster.

 

[LowLefty]

Agree. Remember that he was actually very good at training camp last year (playing beside Morrissey) before injury shortened his camp and pre-season. He showed a lot of poise along with his obvious skating and skills. He's now had another full season in the Swedish Elite League, including plenty of exposure in the Champion's League and playoffs in a top-pair level of role. I think it will be a stretch for him to make the Jets out of training camp (especially with Miller re-signed), but I think he'll be a viable call-up this season when the Jets have injuries. Part of the issue is the Jets' roster numbers and waiver eligibility. If they don't trade away a D (highly unlikely without getting one in return), they already have 7 D that require waivers...

Morrissey-DeMelo
Samberg-Pionk
Heinola-Miller
Stanley

One D to keep an eye on is Stanley. He's been very much maligned (including by me), especially after the very unwise decision to insert him into a pair with Samberg in the playoffs. But I think he has been improving year by year, and I think Arniel still likes him. His mobility and decision-making has been improving, and if he has a good off-season to improve his quickness and mobility, I think his decision-making and puck movement is good enough for a bottom-pair D. The Jets might be completely wrong about Stanley (and maybe retain some bias because of the moves to draft him), but he wouldn't be the first big, gangly D that didn't really show much until age 25 or 26. I hope he can be a reasonable 6-7 D for the Jets this season and beyond.

I agree on the Stan comments - not a lot of love around here but there has been improvement.
Just my opinion, but I feel he has been asked to do certain things out there that might have impacted his performance.

He can find himself out of position at times - and from what I see, it's usually because he is trying to make a hit on a player that is not necessarily the target. I think the org is asking him to be physical and he has over reacted. He will not settle in if he is under the assumption that he is out there to lay guys out as a priority - they need to be careful how they develop him and let him grow into the D role rather than head hunting.

He's not the quickest or most agile - but he has a huge reach that makes up for some of that and he should be learning to gap and control attackers on entry - and we saw more of that LY. But if he is chasing guys around looking for the big hit, he will be a trouble - he can't get back into plays as quickly as the smaller guys and needs to understand that (and so do those that are working with him).
Sounds like the org is sticking with him - and I don't think that is a bad thing - but they need to support his development and not over focus on physical.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Stanley's mobility has improved somewhat, or at least he's making faster decisions so he isn't getting caught out of position as much. I think he can still improve his mobility somewhat, and agree that if he does he becomes more viable as a depth / 3rd pair option.

I think Fleury, Coghlan and Lundmark are destined for assignment as organizational depth unless they really stand out in training camp.

I think it is more likely the faster decisions than faster feet - but doesn't matter, it is the result that counts.

I could see Fleury winning a job over Stanley. I'm not familiar with Coghlan but he has shown some offense and has the advantage of being a RHS. I'm not counting him out either.

It leaves Lundmark with a tough fight on his hands. Before the Fleury and Coghlan signings it looked like he had a chance at staying in the NHL as the #8.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know you're here to "pump us up", but I agree about Salomonsson.

I expect him to show a lot during camp and be viewed by fans and media as a player that deserves a longer look. I think the big question with Salomonsson might be about his development. He might well be ready for a sheltered 3rd pair NHL role now, but I think the Jets might want to give him a run in the AHL to get more experience in a bigger role to enhance his development. There is also the numbers issue - if Salomonsson stays and plays, they'll need to find a place to send Stanley or Heinola.

I still wonder about whether the Jets are contemplating including Heinola in a trade, either alone or as part of a package (with McGroarty or Ehlers). With Fleury signed and the Jets still projecting Stanley as an NHL contributor you wonder whether the Jets might see Heinola as a trade asset more than a long-term part of their D roster.

Can't see Heinola as having much (any?) trade value when he hasn't been able to make it in the NHL. As long as he hasn't been able to take a job from Stanley I think he will be viewed as an AHL level player.

 

[Jet]

Can't see Heinola as having much (any?) trade value when he hasn't been able to make it in the NHL. As long as he hasn't been able to take a job from Stanley I think he will be viewed as an AHL level player.

This isn't the 80s.

Other organizations have a world of information and scoring as well as their AHL scouts.

If I was to venture a guess I'd say many have him as a player on the cusp of a breakout with some really nice overall skill, albeit with a bit of risk.

Id be shocked if he doesn't have decent value.

 

[LowLefty]

This isn't the 80s.

Other organizations have a world of information and scoring as well as their AHL scouts.

If I was to venture a guess I'd say many have him as a player on the cusp of a breakout with some really nice overall skill, albeit with a bit of risk.

Id be shocked if he doesn't have decent value.

He'll have value somewhere -
I think it's important to consider fit, need, and how much risk they are willing to take (ie; non PO teams will roll the dice on younger unproven players).

 

[WolfHouse]

I agree on the Stan comments - not a lot of love around here but there has been improvement.
Just my opinion, but I feel he has been asked to do certain things out there that might have impacted his performance.

He can find himself out of position at times - and from what I see, it's usually because he is trying to make a hit on a player that is not necessarily the target. I think the org is asking him to be physical and he has over reacted. He will not settle in if he is under the assumption that he is out there to lay guys out as a priority - they need to be careful how they develop him and let him grow into the D role rather than head hunting.

He's not the quickest or most agile - but he has a huge reach that makes up for some of that and he should be learning to gap and control attackers on entry - and we saw more of that LY. But if he is chasing guys around looking for the big hit, he will be a trouble - he can't get back into plays as quickly as the smaller guys and needs to understand that (and so do those that are working with him).
Sounds like the org is sticking with him - and I don't think that is a bad thing - but they need to support his development and not over focus on physical.

Where I get stuck is that kova was forced to play first pairing and survived.... Chisholm was immediately put on powerplay in Minnie and survived...

Meanwhile we are happy when Stan doesn't have a massive giveaway and consider that some kind of progress

 

[Whileee]

I agree on the Stan comments - not a lot of love around here but there has been improvement.
Just my opinion, but I feel he has been asked to do certain things out there that might have impacted his performance.

He can find himself out of position at times - and from what I see, it's usually because he is trying to make a hit on a player that is not necessarily the target. I think the org is asking him to be physical and he has over reacted. He will not settle in if he is under the assumption that he is out there to lay guys out as a priority - they need to be careful how they develop him and let him grow into the D role rather than head hunting.

He's not the quickest or most agile - but he has a huge reach that makes up for some of that and he should be learning to gap and control attackers on entry - and we saw more of that LY. But if he is chasing guys around looking for the big hit, he will be a trouble - he can't get back into plays as quickly as the smaller guys and needs to understand that (and so do those that are working with him).
Sounds like the org is sticking with him - and I don't think that is a bad thing - but they need to support his development and not over focus on physical.

Agree. I think it's also relevant that Stanley has missed a fair bit of development time sitting in the press box. It wasn't ideal, but he wouldn't have cleared waivers for more AHL development.

 

[Whileee]

This isn't the 80s.

Other organizations have a world of information and scoring as well as their AHL scouts.

If I was to venture a guess I'd say many have him as a player on the cusp of a breakout with some really nice overall skill, albeit with a bit of risk.

Id be shocked if he doesn't have decent value.

I agree. I think that both Heinola and Stanley have some appreciable trade value but for different reasons. My guess is that they would trade Heinola before Stanley if the value is equivalent, mainly because their D lacks size and physical presence. If Heinola has higher trade value that might also tip the balance to trading him.

 

[Heldig]

It's laughable to see the excuses made for Stan while we throw away klva, chisholm, gawanke and write them off as lovers

Now we will throw away coghlan, Lundmark and fleury and say it's nothing

And it is 'kind of' except one of those guys might have bumped pionk given the same chances Stan had

Edit: now I'm terrified of the autocorrect my phone does on business emails hahaha

It was dumb to give up on Kovacevic. Could have platooned him and Stanley for a year to see what we had.

Chisholm was simply a victim of being the 9th guy.

Gawanke is not an NHLer so no harm there.

 

[KingBogo]

It was dumb to give up on Kovacevic. Could have platooned him and Stanley for a year to see what we had.

Chisholm was simply a victim of being the 9th guy.

Gawanke is not an NHLer so no harm there.

Kovacevic has the value of a 4th round pick. The worst D in the league saw no future in him and dealt him for what they could. He is a 7/8 D man and those guys are a dime a dozen around the league. Chevy picked up a couple for free earlier in the summer that in the same range as Kovacevic.

 

[LowLefty]

Where I get stuck is that kova was forced to play first pairing and survived.... Chisholm was immediately put on powerplay in Minnie and survived...

Meanwhile we are happy when Stan doesn't have a massive giveaway and consider that some kind of progress

I'm trying to look ahead here -
I don't see much value in rehashing the waiver guys as a argument to trash Stan.
My post was about him as a player right now, what he may have accomplished in the last year or so, and what he might become if the org continues to support him in his development.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This isn't the 80s.

Other organizations have a world of information and scoring as well as their AHL scouts.

If I was to venture a guess I'd say many have him as a player on the cusp of a breakout with some really nice overall skill, albeit with a bit of risk.

Id be shocked if he doesn't have decent value.

I know things have changed, but not that much. We still see teams misread players all the time. Perception is king. I give you Huberdeau or PLD - twice.

I think he was perceived as valuable 2-3 years ago. Now he will be seen as having stagnated. JMO

 

[WolfHouse]

I'm trying to look ahead here -
I don't see much value in rehashing the waiver guys as a argument to trash Stan.
My post was about him as a player right now, what he may have accomplished in the last year or so, and what he might become if the org continues to support him in his development.

The fancy stats and models all point to the fact that he is what he is - a fringe third pairing guy who's play falls off the more games he appears in... like I said we all hope he gets better and wanted to 'see' that last year but analytics just say he's the same player he always has been. Just don't see what's gained by blocking more prospects while waiting for an evolution that has the odds massive stacked against it.

 

[Weezeric]

The fancy stats and models all point to the fact that he is what he is - a fringe third pairing guy who's play falls off the more games he appears in... like I said we all hope he gets better and wanted to 'see' that last year but analytics just say he's the same player he always has been. Just don't see what's gained by blocking more prospects while waiting for an evolution that has the odds massive stacked against it.

I’d love to see the analytics that say his play falls off the more games he plays….