Winnipeg Jets: 11,226 Attendance tonight, cause for concern? What's going on in the 'Peg?

[jetsmooseice]

I don’t disagree with your point regarding doing better with business.

I do want to emphasize that we shouldn’t so casually accept the reason why there are so many empty seats. They weren’t filled by the business folks in the past.

If TNSE is content to make it a rich persons affair to attend, then they will continue to lose attendees. Want to get people to come? You lower the prices of your tickets, and food/drinks. Not try to guilt your fanbase with letters.

I think the NHL made the decision a long time ago that it was going to be a rich person's/corporate league... at least as far as season ticket holders are concerned. It's funny, you ask a question about constantly increasing ticket prices and the teams point to the rising salary cap as the reason. Well, who sets the salary cap? The teams want higher revenue and player salaries are just a convenient excuse. "It's the players' fault" is basically the unspoken message.

It's going to be a lot harder to sell those season tickets in a place like Winnipeg where the pool of buyers that will simply pay the season ticket invoice without giving it a second thought is much smaller than it is in LA, NY, Toronto. But TNSE knew what it was getting itself into, it already had 15 years of experience selling tickets in this market under its belt before the Jets ever hit the ice. So I assume they have a plan.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think the NHL made the decision a long time ago that it was going to be a rich person's/corporate league... at least as far as season ticket holders are concerned. It's funny, you ask a question about constantly increasing ticket prices and the teams point to the rising salary cap as the reason. Well, who sets the salary cap? The teams want higher revenue and player salaries are just a convenient excuse. "It's the players' fault" is basically the unspoken message.

I’m confused at what you mean here. Salaries are linked to revenue, so raising prices will cause salaries to go up — not the other way around. 50% of every ticket goes to salaries, regardless of price levels. And this 50/50 split wasn’t “set” by anyone individually, it was collectively bargained between the owners and players.

If anyone’s saying that teams are raising ticket prices to cover salaries, that person doesn’t understand the very fundamental basics of how this league’s salary cap works.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I’m confused at what you mean here. Salaries are linked to revenue, so raising prices will cause salaries to go up — not the other way around. 50% of every ticket goes to salaries, regardless of price levels. And this 50/50 split wasn’t “set” by anyone individually, it was collectively bargained between the owners and players.

If anyone’s saying that teams are raising ticket prices to cover salaries, that person doesn’t understand the very fundamental basics of how this league’s salary cap works.

Whenever the subject of ticket price increases comes up here in Winnipeg (and they have been pretty substantial over the 12 years that the Jets have existed), you often hear some variation on the theme of "well, the salary cap has gone up, do you want the Jets to be a cap team or a floor team?" Obviously both sides, players and owners, have a vested interest in seeing revenues rise through every means possible, including ticket price increases even when demand in a particular market has softened, as it has in Winnipeg.

Other than very limited ticket promos, teams will only reduce ticket prices as a last resort. It's possible that it has happened in the modern NHL, but I'm not aware of any examples.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Whenever the subject of ticket price increases comes up here in Winnipeg (and they have been pretty substantial over the 12 years that the Jets have existed), you often hear some variation on the theme of "well, the salary cap has gone up, do you want the Jets to be a cap team or a floor team?" Obviously both sides, players and owners, have a vested interest in seeing revenues rise through every means possible, including ticket price increases even when demand in a particular market has softened, as it has in Winnipeg.

I guess I can see where people are coming from in terms of remaining competitive. It is frustrating, though, that people don’t understand that when they raise prices, the cap simply moves up proportionately to the increased price. The only teams that really “win” this game are the true large-markets which can put the other 50% of that revenue (minus profits, of course!) into other things like coaches and facilities. But if you’re a big-market fan, you’re never getting your hands on those tickets unless your name is Rockefeller or something. So at the end of the day it doesn’t really help anyone other than the owner.

Other than very limited ticket promos, teams will only reduce ticket prices as a last resort. It's possible that it has happened in the modern NHL, but I'm not aware of any examples.

I’m not aware of any examples either. Lower prices are one thing you will never see in this league. Even when the prices stay the same, if you look closely it’s usually because they’ve offered less for the money (e.g. there’s now an outdoor game at exorbitant prices replacing one of the usual home games, so the overall revenue goes up).

 

[BKIslandersFan]

It is only the Jets that immediately

Uh no. You just mentioned 2 teams that were constant talk of relocation due to attendance.

 

[Kimota]

Yeah that's not the issue , the issue is the rest of the country crying about putting a team in a *real hockey market like quebec* and clowning on arizona or florida for years and years and years , all of a sudden Winnipeg citizens are all poor and homeless and have 120912091091 excuses not to go to games for a sport that is supposedly *our game* .

The point is Canadians need to chill on the bragging rights that everybody here loves hockey more than the states , I understand cities like Winnipeg and Ottawa and Quebec city are tiny compared to other teams with pro sports but we really need to stop chirping southern teams when we still have hockey attendance issues up here

But it's true that Canadian fans loves it more. It felt freaking harder to take during the same period to see the Habs lose than the Expos. In Canada, the NHL is their NFL/MLB. Americans will always love Baseball and Football more than hockey. It's in their culture, their soul. Even when the Expos had good teams, they rarely filled the Big O.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

They need to figure out ways to make going to a game worth it. Parking is expensive, food is expensive, drinks are expensive, merch is expensive, the team f***in' sucks. I'd stay home too.

 

[jokesondee]

Ottawa attendance has had an average attendance of 18,089 fans per game (98% capacity) since 2005, not including COVID years.

2005/06​	798453​	19474​
2006/07​	794271​	19372​
2007/08​	812665​	19821​
2008/09​	776947​	18949​
2009/10​	749061​	18269​
2010/11​	753525​	18378​
2011/12​	793612​	19356​
2012/13*​	465801​	19408​
2013/14​	742468​	18108​
2014/15​	748112​	18246​
2015/16​	741472​	18084​
2016/17​	686534​	16744​
2017/18​	648996​	15829​
2018/19​	596684​	14553​
2019/20​	466876​	12618​
2021/22​	375368​	9155​
2022/23​	687036​	16757​

Really not sure what your point is here. You’ve kinda just proven mine. So other than Covid affected years, in an arena that holds 19347, that’s approximately 3000-5000 empty seats every year going back to 2016-17 and including this year(which has averaged 16746 so far). Not a great trend dude.

 

[tarheelhockey]

They need to figure out ways to make going to a game worth it. Parking is expensive, food is expensive, drinks are expensive, merch is expensive, the team f***in' sucks. I'd stay home too.

The NHL as a whole needs to figure this out. The sports entertainment industry feels like a bubble that wouldn’t sustain an economic downturn.

 

[NVious]

They need to figure out ways to make going to a game worth it. Parking is expensive, food is expensive, drinks are expensive, merch is expensive, the team f***in' sucks. I'd stay home too.

It's the Canadian experience, everything astronomical except;
The teams point total
The players point total

But Canadian fans should be happy they get the "top team experience" (without the winning or awards), they get to pay like their team is a dynasty, meanwhile they're not even a dynasty of being good in their division.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

They need to figure out ways to make going to a game worth it. Parking is expensive, food is expensive, drinks are expensive, merch is expensive, the team f***in' sucks. I'd stay home too.

Good point. People need to feel like they get their moneys worth, what's the point going otherwise?

 

[Hockeyholic]

Montreal is rebuilding and averaging over 20k per game with insane ticket prices. Winnipeg should be a better team and is not drawing the huge crowds anymore.

Hopefully the front office doesn't stay away from rebuilding just to try and keep attendance from going down. Doing this would make things worse for the future of the team.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Montreal is rebuilding and averaging over 20k per game with insane ticket prices. Winnipeg should be a better team and is not drawing the huge crowds anymore.

Hopefully the front office doesn't stay away from rebuilding just to try and keep attendance from going down. Doing this would make things worse for the future of the team.

Montreal draws from a much larger population. That’s the issue with these small markets. Every individual potential fan is being counted on to go that much more often. Not even getting into the corporate side of it.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Montreal draws from a much larger population. That’s the issue with these small markets. Every individual potential fan is being counted on to go that much more often. Not even getting into the corporate side of it.

Montreal population 2017: 1.78 million

Manitoba population 2019: 1.369 million

 

[robertocarlos]

It's all about cash flow. If you have $500 million in assets but they are losing money hand over fist then you need to sell. Jets are probably in good shape but only Chipman knows for sure. I think the City of Winnipeg, as an owner of the Jets, flushed down $50 million keeping the Jets afloat for an extra 2 years. And $50 million then is like $200 million now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Watching the Swift Current WHL game. Empty seats everywhere. Has to be a Tiny Arena and very inexpensive tickets. It’s not much better in Kelowna. People just don’t have an appetite for mediocre hockey teams when economic times are tough just because it’s Canada.

 

[JJ68]

Montreal population 2017: 1.78 million

Manitoba population 2019: 1.369 million

the city of Montreal itself is probably above 2 million and the population around it is somewhere closer to 4 to 5. You are also including the entire province of Manitoba. Provinces are large and vast.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The thing with Montreal and Toronto is that there's always a sucker richer than you who will buy tickets if you don't , we have waiting lists of several years for season tickets lol seems like in Winnipeg even the suits don't want to indulge in the jets. Not enough population , not enough big cats willing to splurge on going to the game

 

[Paper]

Can Phoenix support two teams?

 

[jetsmooseice]

Watching the Swift Current WHL game. Empty seats everywhere. Has to be a Tiny Arena and very inexpensive tickets. It’s not much better in Kelowna. People just don’t have an appetite for mediocre hockey teams when economic times are tough just because it’s Canada.

The WHL has delusions of grandeur ,that's the issue there. They had a few good years and now they are trying to maintain the charade that they are a big-time league when most nights, teams play in front of puny crowds. Even the "Bedard effect" didn't really get going until the WJHC, I was at a game in Regina last fall with a half-full Brandt Centre looking on.

That charade is why the WHL yanked the team out of Winnipeg. Even though the owners were prepared to keep going ahead with the 1,800 seat Wayne Fleming Arena, the WHL couldn't allow that when it continuously pushes small towns into building large, overbuilt arenas on the pretext that the dub is some kind of big-time league that requires thousands and thousands of seats. The existence of the ICE was a threat to that. Moose Jaw is a classic example of what I'm talking about, a town of 50,000 that built a comically overbuilt rink which is nearly empty most nights. Medicine Hat is similar, and Prince Albert is next in line. I'm sure the WHL will be pushing towns like Brandon and Lethbridge to shell out exorbitant amounts on new buildings too.

 

[Craig Button]

Winnipeg Jets home attendance 2023 | Statista

The total regular season home attendance of the Winnipeg Jets franchise of the National Hockey League in the 2022/23 season stood at just under 576 thousand.

www.statista.com

NHL 2022-23 team attendance at hockeydb.com

Attendance for the National Hockey League for the 2022-23 season

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Craig Button]

Montreal population 2017: 1.78 million

Manitoba population 2019: 1.369 million

Montreal, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2024

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Montreal, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2024. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Greater Montreal or Metropolitan Montreal population is 4.3M second only to Greater Toronto 6.3M

Winnipeg Metropolitan population is is 841,000.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Montreal, Canada Metro Area Population 1950-2024

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Montreal, Canada metro area from 1950 to 2024. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Greater Montreal or Metropolitan Montreal population is 4.3M second only to Greater Toronto 6.3M

Winnipeg Metropolitan population is is 841,000.

Yeah, the Habs are drawing from more than 5X the population base to come out and support the team. Comparing Montreal city limits to the entire province of Manitoba doesn't make sense. Brandon is about a 2.5 hour drive to Winnipeg. That's like a once a season kind of trek, not a season ticketholder.

 

[sawchuk1971]

tsn dreger interviews chipman....

WInnipeg Jets' Mark Chipman addresses team's low attendance, big picture focus in Winnipeg | TSN

Winnipeg Jets and True North Sports & Entertainment executive chairman Mark Chipman talks to TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger about the team's attendance issues and its commitment to bringing fans back into the building.

www.tsn.ca

cliffs:

chipman does not believe in rebuilding because it can take a decade or two to recover; the market can't support that.

chipman believes relocating the jets can't happen because when jets 1.0 moved, there was no salary cap; there wasn't a partnership with the players; there was no building (jets 1.0 did not own their own arena).....

 

[tarheelhockey]

tsn dreger interviews chipman....

WInnipeg Jets' Mark Chipman addresses team's low attendance, big picture focus in Winnipeg | TSN

Winnipeg Jets and True North Sports & Entertainment executive chairman Mark Chipman talks to TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger about the team's attendance issues and its commitment to bringing fans back into the building.

www.tsn.ca

cliffs:

chipman does not believe in rebuilding because it can take a decade or two to recover; the market can't support that.

chipman believes relocating the jets can't happen because when jets 1.0 moved, there was no salary cap; there wasn't a partnership with the players; there was no building (jets 1.0 did not own their own arena).....

Direct quotes from this interview:

15:05 “Everybody should be worried about us”

15:16 “Hey, come and worry about the Winnpeg Jets!”

Scary times