Winnipeg Jets: 11,226 Attendance tonight, cause for concern? What's going on in the 'Peg?

[jokesondee]

A few thousand empty seats isn’t going to bankrupt the Jets. Jesus H Christ people, do you really think True North’s profit margins are that thin?!!? THE JETS ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

 

[JimmyApples]

It was the ‘shiny new toy’ for the first while, now Winnipeg is back to their same old ways. I’d like to see Houston get a shot with a team.

 

[jokesondee]

It was the ‘shiny new toy’ for the first while, now Winnipeg is back to their same old ways. I’d like to see Houston get a shot with a team.

I see Ottawas attendance has been dogshit along with their team for the last 20+ years, i’d like to see the Nordiques back. Big savings on relocation travel costs too, wouldn’t even be that long of a drive.

 

[JimmyApples]

I see the Sens attendance has been dogshit along with the team for the last 20+ years, i’d like to see the Nordiques back. Big savings on relocation travel costs too, wouldn’t even be that long of a drive.

Sens are averaging about 5,000 more people a game than the Jets this year, brand new owner that is committed to keeping the team in Ottawa, and building a downtown arena. We are not the same, sorry guys you could always jump ship to the Wild when the Jets leave town?

 

[pictman]

It was the ‘shiny new toy’ for the first while, now Winnipeg is back to their same old ways. I’d like to see Houston get a shot with a team.

So the Sens haven't had attendance troubles in the past ? Panthers ? Buffalo? San Jose? Arizona pretty much every year every year ? Edmonton pre McDavid ? ...........and on and on.
It is only the Jets that immediately cause all the experts on here that know nothing about ownership, the city itself, or even the root causes of what caused Jets 1.0 to move to gleefully proclaim the demise of the team . Tiresome, annoying, uninformed.

 

[bert]

Buffalo has not made the postseason in 13 years. They get a pass.

Also a better hockey city than Winnipeg imo.

Absolutely not lol.

 

[Zenos]

So the Sens haven't had attendance troubles in the past ? Panthers ? Buffalo? San Jose? Arizona pretty much every year every year ? Edmonton pre McDavid ? ...........and on and on.
It is only the Jets that immediately cause all the experts on here that know nothing about ownership, the city itself, or even the root causes of what caused Jets 1.0 to move to gleefully proclaim the demise of the team . Tiresome, annoying, uninformed.

Not factually correct. Unless you mean pre-pre-McDavid.

You have to go all the way back to the pre salary-cap era to find what you're looking for. The Coliseum / Rexall Place was consistently sold-out even throughout the so-called decade of darkness (albeit in one of the league's smaller barns). It's only in the last while that attendance has dropped somewhat due to Covid / mandates, a hurting economy, and fan apathy towards an increasingly expensive product (FU Katz).

edit: not arguing with the point of your post btw. Just clearing up a little mistake.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

A few thousand empty seats isn’t going to bankrupt the Jets. Jesus H Christ people, do you really think True North’s profit margins are that thin?!!? THE JETS ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

Yeah that's not the issue , the issue is the rest of the country crying about putting a team in a *real hockey market like quebec* and clowning on arizona or florida for years and years and years , all of a sudden Winnipeg citizens are all poor and homeless and have 120912091091 excuses not to go to games for a sport that is supposedly *our game* .

The point is Canadians need to chill on the bragging rights that everybody here loves hockey more than the states , I understand cities like Winnipeg and Ottawa and Quebec city are tiny compared to other teams with pro sports but we really need to stop chirping southern teams when we still have hockey attendance issues up here

 

[jetsmooseice]

Some of you need accounting classes.

Having negative opetational income while share value is increasing is actually more beneficial than the other way around...

Unless the Franchise is dropping in value (which I don't believe it's the case), the owners won't care as much

Very good point. If you lose a bit on the ops side, it's not a huge deal if you are making big gains on asset value.

Sometimes I wonder if Barry Shenkarow is kicking himself for selling the Jets for $68 million in 1995 considering the team would have been worth at least triple that a decade later. Assuming he could have negotiated a better deal with Winnipeg Enterprises to staunch the losses, I would imagine he would have made a tidy sum in the end.

Wouldn’t that be nice!
No need to give away any ticket here. But a discount in tickets at least for a period of time would go a long way with the fans here.
But again, we aren’t anywhere near that point.

The Jets would probably benefit from a few ticket deals. Not so much to just fill empty seats but to expand the fanbase a bit. Right now tickets are priced at a point where only dedicated fans are going to buy them. But here's the issue, much of Winnipeg's population growth in recent years is from places where hockey is not on the radar at all. India, China, Nigeria, Philippines, places like that. If you want to engage new arrivals, then make it accessible for them to attend. The immigrant probably won't become a season ticket holder, but it's possible that down the line their kids might.

 

[abax44]

Very good point. If you lose a bit on the ops side, it's not a huge deal if you are making big gains on asset value.

Sometimes I wonder if Barry Shenkarow is kicking himself for selling the Jets for $68 million in 1995 considering the team would have been worth at least triple that a decade later. Assuming he could have negotiated a better deal with Winnipeg Enterprises to staunch the losses, I would imagine he would have made a tidy sum in the end.



The Jets would probably benefit from a few ticket deals. Not so much to just fill empty seats but to expand the fanbase a bit. Right now tickets are priced at a point where only dedicated fans are going to buy them. But here's the issue, much of Winnipeg's population growth in recent years is from places where hockey is not on the radar at all. India, China, Nigeria, Philippines, places like that. If you want to engage new arrivals, then make it accessible for them to attend. The immigrant probably won't become a season ticket holder, but it's possible that down the line their kids might.

This is true. A friend of mine moved him from Paraguay and had never seen snow, let alone live NHL. Price was a barrier, but he ended up getting tickets through work and loved it. He didn't have the means to attend more games, unfortunately.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Absolutely not lol.

Oh I think it is.

Buffalo is basically a Canadian team in terms of passion and attendance.

They are consistently top three for US playoff TV ratings.

 

[dj4aces]

The Jets would probably benefit from a few ticket deals. Not so much to just fill empty seats but to expand the fanbase a bit. Right now tickets are priced at a point where only dedicated fans are going to buy them. But here's the issue, much of Winnipeg's population growth in recent years is from places where hockey is not on the radar at all. India, China, Nigeria, Philippines, places like that. If you want to engage new arrivals, then make it accessible for them to attend. The immigrant probably won't become a season ticket holder, but it's possible that down the line their kids might.

Perhaps some additional marketing is in order as well. It's one thing to advertise ticket packages to make attending games accessible, but it's another thing entirely to show folks how exciting the sport is, etc.

Back when the team was still here, I took a group of friends to a couple games on my dime. They've all moved to other places in the southeastern US since the team departed, but enjoyed the experience so much, they're following local teams, including the new Ghost Pirates team in Savannah (Kraken ECHL affiliate)

That's not to say that everyone in Winnipeg should take a few people to a game, just that simply lowering prices isn't going to be enough to get people who know nothing about the sport to show up. If you want people who know nothing about the sport to show up, you've gotta give them a reason to.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Some of you need accounting classes.

Having negative opetational income while share value is increasing is actually more beneficial than the other way around...

Unless the Franchise is dropping in value (which I don't believe it's the case), the owners won't care as much

Very good point. If you lose a bit on the ops side, it's not a huge deal if you are making big gains on asset value.

You’re not wrong about this, but again it‘s noteworthy that the Thrashers franchise relocated precisely because the franchise doubled in value while sustaining operating losses.

 

[MMC]

Oh no! Buffalo Sabres attendance last game against an original 6 division rival was 13507 in a 19000+ arena. Go start a thread about them.

You are more than welcome to

 

[abax44]

Buffalo is basically a Canadian team in terms of passion and attendance.

As opposed to Winnipeg...

 

[BahlDeep]

You’re not wrong about this, but again it‘s noteworthy that the Thrashers franchise relocated precisely because the franchise doubled in value while sustaining operating losses.

Very good point. If you lose a bit on the ops side, it's not a huge deal if you are making big gains on asset value.

Sometimes I wonder if Barry Shenkarow is kicking himself for selling the Jets for $68 million in 1995 considering the team would have been worth at least triple that a decade later. Assuming he could have negotiated a better deal with Winnipeg Enterprises to staunch the losses, I would imagine he would have made a tidy sum in the end.



The Jets would probably benefit from a few ticket deals. Not so much to just fill empty seats but to expand the fanbase a bit. Right now tickets are priced at a point where only dedicated fans are going to buy them. But here's the issue, much of Winnipeg's population growth in recent years is from places where hockey is not on the radar at all. India, China, Nigeria, Philippines, places like that. If you want to engage new arrivals, then make it accessible for them to attend. The immigrant probably won't become a season ticket holder, but it's possible that down the line their kids might.

Sometimes it's just about cash flow and liquidity... which there's 0 reason to believe the current owners have or would have given their wealth.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Sometimes it's just about cash flow and liquidity... which there's 0 reason to believe the current owners have or would have given their wealth.

You mean 0 reason to believe the current owners have "concerns over" cash flow and liquidity? Because a guy like Thomson can float multimillion dollar annual operating losses indefinitely, and he wouldn't even feel it.

When you look at all the things TNSE has going for it in terms of their local business presence, it's hard to believe they are going to panic because one part of their empire might lose some money on its operations this year. The team is appreciating in value, and they are a big player locally here in Winnipeg with a lot of profitable investments that the Jets are the showpiece of. And politically, if push came to shove, the provincial government would be ready to step up to help beyond what they currently do for TNSE.

I think the real storm cloud scenario will occur when it is time to build a new rink. I think that's a long way off, but that day will eventually come whether it's 20, 30 or 40 years from now. And when the estimates inevitably roll in at billions of dollars for a new building as it will be by then, that's when it will get dramatic. Bear in mind that TNSE paid for most of the existing building itself, $145 million and then roughly the same amount on improvements since 2011, they will likely be looking for an Alberta-style free ride the next time out.

But until that day comes there is nothing to get excited about. Whether there are 8,000 fans in the stands, 12,000 or 15,000, it doesn't really matter IMO.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Perhaps a better question would be why so many more Winnipegers have trouble finding extra cash to attend an NHL game?

A lack of a strong business community that one would see in a larger city exposes the actual reality for most in this country.

It’s really as simple as that.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Perhaps a better question would be why so many more Winnipegers have trouble finding extra cash to attend an NHL game?

A lack of a strong business community that one would see in a larger city exposes the actual reality for most in this country.

It’s really as simple as that.

I don't think the business market has been fully tapped. When the NHL returned to Winnipeg, a lot of "season ticket groups" were formed, e.g. 3 or more people sharing a season ticket. For the first few years you couldn't reliably find single-game tickets, this was the way to go. As those groups fractured and fell off over time, TNSE didn't really do a good job finding businesses to replace them with... and by businesses I don't necessarily mean only large corporations... I also mean small businesses, plumbers, accountants, exterminators, physiotherapists, etc. The kinds of people who can handle the expense and get the benefit of a tax writeoff, and aren't dependent on 5 people agreeing year after year to keep the ticket package going.

Edmonton has done a good job of this, IMO. It feels like untold Oiler season tickets are held by [Fill in the blank] Oilfield Services Inc. or whatever. They transitioned to that model back around 1997 when the big ownership group took over... now Winnipeg is moving in that direction.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I don't think the business market has been fully tapped. When the NHL returned to Winnipeg, a lot of "season ticket groups" were formed, e.g. 3 or more people sharing a season ticket. For the first few years you couldn't reliably find single-game tickets, this was the way to go. As those groups fractured and fell off over time, TNSE didn't really do a good job finding businesses to replace them with... and by businesses I don't necessarily mean only large corporations... I also mean small businesses, plumbers, accountants, exterminators, physiotherapists, etc. The kinds of people who can handle the expense and get the benefit of a tax writeoff, and aren't dependent on 5 people agreeing year after year to keep the ticket package going.

Edmonton has done a good job of this, IMO. It feels like untold Oiler season tickets are held by [Fill in the blank] Oilfield Services Inc. or whatever. They transitioned to that model back around 1997 when the big ownership group took over... now Winnipeg is moving in that direction.

Winnipeg isn’t a business town. It’s a working, civil service city. Could they do better there? Sure.

Again - the answer is easy. The declining standard of living, and disposable income.

People are going to cut out extras. A stagnant team that charges 100$ for a nosebleed ticket, and a couple beers. It’s not complicated.

That rink isn’t dead because the rich folk decided to stop cheering.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Winnipeg isn’t a business town. It’s a working, civil service city. Could they do better there? Sure.

Again - the answer is easy. The declining standard of living, and disposable income.

People are going to cut out extras. A stagnant team that charges 100$ for a nosebleed ticket, and a couple beers. It’s not complicated.

That rink isn’t dead because the rich folk decided to stop cheering.

Winnipeg may be a blue collar city. But there are still thousands of high-earning professionals and business owners. And like I said, you don't need to be a bank CEO to afford season tickets. If you have a somewhat profitable gas station or mini-storage, you can likely afford season tickets. If you're a doctor or have a small CPA firm or a large farm 20 km outside the city, you can likely afford season tickets. These are the "businesses" that TNSE needs to chase.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Winnipeg may be a blue collar city. But there are still thousands of high-earning professionals and business owners. And like I said, you don't need to be a bank CEO to afford season tickets. If you have a somewhat profitable gas station or mini-storage, you can likely afford season tickets. If you're a doctor or have a small CPA firm or a large farm 20 km outside the city, you can likely afford season tickets. These are the "businesses" that TNSE needs to chase.

I don’t disagree with your point regarding doing better with business.

I do want to emphasize that we shouldn’t so casually accept the reason why there are so many empty seats. They weren’t filled by the business folks in the past.

If TNSE is content to make it a rich persons affair to attend, then they will continue to lose attendees. Want to get people to come? You lower the prices of your tickets, and food/drinks. Not try to guilt your fanbase with letters.

 

[Umingmak]

This nonsense of course, has already been debunked.

The Vancouver Canucks, Edmonton Oilers and Calgary Flames all had lean cycles. And they got through them and now they all punch way above their weight. And are the lowest maintenance teams in the league.

So your big prediction that "it will only get worse as the Jets decline further" will be proven to be bunk. Edmontons population wasn't any bigger than Winnipegs not that long ago. Less than 20 years

Edmonton and Calgary also both have strong local economies, and metro populations significantly higher than Winnipeg's.

I will be absolutely shocked if the Jets don't relocate in the next 10 years.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sometimes it's just about cash flow and liquidity... which there's 0 reason to believe the current owners have or would have given their wealth.

I totally agree and I don’t think there’s immediate cause for concern with the Jets.

I was just commenting on the rich irony of this thread compared to the situation 12 years ago. Jets fans are saying almost exactly the same things that Thrashers fans were saying, before the true intentions of their ownership became clear.

The difference in this situation is that the owners aren’t full-on hostile to the NHL, the way Atlanta’s ownership was.

 

[RickyLafleur]

I see Ottawas attendance has been dogshit along with their team for the last 20+ years, i’d like to see the Nordiques back. Big savings on relocation travel costs too, wouldn’t even be that long of a drive.

Ottawa attendance has had an average attendance of 18,089 fans per game (98% capacity) since 2005, not including COVID years.

2005/06​	798453​	19474​
2006/07​	794271​	19372​
2007/08​	812665​	19821​
2008/09​	776947​	18949​
2009/10​	749061​	18269​
2010/11​	753525​	18378​
2011/12​	793612​	19356​
2012/13*​	465801​	19408​
2013/14​	742468​	18108​
2014/15​	748112​	18246​
2015/16​	741472​	18084​
2016/17​	686534​	16744​
2017/18​	648996​	15829​
2018/19​	596684​	14553​
2019/20​	466876​	12618​
2021/22​	375368​	9155​
2022/23​	687036​	16757​