Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

[Konnan511]

How is Augustine that far ahead of Cossa?

Personally, I feel Augustine is a more promising prospect. I have never been super impressed with Cossa, until earlier this year. I like his athleticism, but hate his positioning and decision making, and I don't think he is tough enough mentally. I think Trey is better at everything, except for athleticism, but it isn't that great of a difference. Trey also seems substantially more mentally tough.

 

[Frk It]

Aside from being a little bit bigger, does Cleveland do anything better than Keenan?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Personally, I feel Augustine is a more promising prospect. I have never been super impressed with Cossa, until earlier this year. I like his athleticism, but hate his positioning and decision making, and I don't think he is tough enough mentally. I think Trey is better at everything, except for athleticism, but it isn't that great of a difference. Trey also seems substantially more mentally tough.

I rated Cossa as the #1 Detroit prospect NOW. But I agree that Augustine could very well become a better player. He just seems so dialed in at all times, and all he does is win. WJC18 gold and silver. WJC20 Goldx2 and bronze. NCAA B1G tournament MVP and 2nd all star team. NCAA All rookie team. Never more than 9 losses in a single season in his career. This kid has the "it" factor out the wazoo.

Cossa may be the goalie of the future...for 3 or 4 years. Unless he can be Connor Helebuyck, Oettinger, or our Roberto Luongo.

Augustine is the guy I think Detroit keep longer term if everything goes right and Cossa wants big money. At worst, Augustine looks like a 1b starter to me with the potential to be in the very good to great starter range. I think he's a way better prospect than Dustin Wolf was at the same age, and Dustin Wolf is looking really solid for Calgary. But between Augustine and Cossa, I think Detroit's goalie problems are solved for the next 8-10 years.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I feel like people sometimes overlook that Cossa was very strong in the Oil Kings 2022 WHL Cup run. Yes that team was pretty loaded, but Cossa was a large part of why they were loaded too.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I feel like people sometimes overlook that Cossa was very strong in the Oil Kings 2022 WHL Cup run. Yes that team was pretty loaded, but Cossa was a large part of why they were loaded too.

Nobody overlooks it. I think it's as simple as this; At the same point in Cossa's development he was not as good as Augustine is now.

Cossa was drafted as a mid 1st rounder in the 2021 draft, a pretty solid overall draft. His D+1 wasn't really much better than his draft year, and his D+2 wasn't anything spectacular. He's still doing pretty good but over the last 7 games his save percentage has dipped a bit, averaging around .885. He wasn't the starter on that Canada U20 WJC gold medal squad and only got into a single game. First goalie drafted that year but there's been a longstanding debate as to if he was the best goalie of his draft class.

Augustine was drafted as an early/mid 2nd rounder but since being drafted has absolutely taken off. Winningest goalie in US history at the WJC U20. 3 golds with Team USA, all as starter. 34-11-4 record with a .919 save percentage on a middle of the road NCAA team. He was the 3rd goalie drafted but is clearly the best from his class.

I think we have a lot to be excited about in Augustine. All the kid does is win.

 

[heyfolks]

Personally, I feel Augustine is a more promising prospect. I have never been super impressed with Cossa, until earlier this year. I like his athleticism, but hate his positioning and decision making, and I don't think he is tough enough mentally. I think Trey is better at everything, except for athleticism, but it isn't that great of a difference. Trey also seems substantially more mentally tough.

The snarky response is something about hockey, and sport in general, being about athleticism. The more sincere response is, I actually think Trey is more athletic. Cossa is simply in that big have to prove they can't and little have to prove they can position.

Ogee laid out both of their progress well.

Now, don't take this the wrong way, I am agreeing with you. I actually think Trey is the more promising prospect. I hope both are great, but Trey has been more consistent and played at a higher level than Cossa at the same age/stage of their respective careers.

 

[Crunchy]

Frankly, Augustine and Cossa have not had even remotely comparable career paths. Cossa D+1 he was good in the WHL regular season and great during a championship run. He then jumped to the ECHL for his D+2.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Cossa was drafted having played only 52 WHL games, 19 in his Draft year against only the other teams in a weak division, no playoff games. That's a really weak resume for a first-round CHL goalie. There were probably undrafted US high school goalies more techniically advanced than Cossa but none who were 6-6 athletes with great flexibility posting great numbers. It was incrredibly ballsy to trade up for him. He was good the following season, but the numbers weren't nearly as impressive and a more accurate reflection of where he was at that point in his development. It should not have surprised anyone he was the backup at the 2022 WJC; Garand was more experienced with good WHL numbers and most importantly part of TC before. That's how HC rolls and it was the right decision. Cossa also wasn't great at the Memorial Cup.

It wasn't until he turned pro, older than Augustine is now, that Cossa IMO started to learrn what Augustine probably had down pat at 17, his second year with USNTDP. In addition to technical skills Trey's also quick and flexible, a good athlete. Cossa's made huge strides since turning pro which I think is simply due to his work with better coaches than he had access to as a teenager. Both goalies are great prospects but on completely different playing and development paths that make it impossible to know at this time who will be the better NHL goalle. It's important to hang onto both of them until we do know.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Personally, I feel Augustine is a more promising prospect. I have never been super impressed with Cossa, until earlier this year. I like his athleticism, but hate his positioning and decision making, and I don't think he is tough enough mentally. I think Trey is better at everything, except for athleticism, but it isn't that great of a difference. Trey also seems substantially more mentally tough.

Honestly I feel the same way evaluating them but still think Cossa is the better goalie prospect. To me Cossa always looks shaky and loose. He's sliding out of position, failing to track the puck and letting things squeak through him. I've seen him fall apart in games. In every way, including athleticism, I like Trey more. He just does it right.

Augustine is 6'1. Most goalies are 6'3+. Cossa is 6'6.

You can't make Augustine taller. He will always be too short. So he has to be technically better than every goalie in the league to survive, a la Saaros. It's a bad bet to make even though he's excelling at lower levels.

Whereas a good goalie coach should be able to fix all of Cossa's issues if given enough time. The things that you can't teach- athleticism and size- are there in spades for him. He just needs to keep practicing. That's why he's the better prospect. I like Trey way more, but he has a much harder path to making it than Cossa.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Honestly I feel the same way evaluating them but still think Cossa is the better goalie prospect. To me Cossa always looks shaky and loose. He's sliding out of position, failing to track the puck and letting things squeak through him. I've seen him fall apart in games. In every way, including athleticism, I like Trey more. He just does it right.

Augustine is 6'1. Most goalies are 6'3+. Cossa is 6'6.

You can't make Augustine taller. He will always be too short. So he has to be technically better than every goalie in the league to survive, a la Saaros. It's a bad bet to make even though he's excelling at lower levels.

Whereas a good goalie coach should be able to fix all of Cossa's issues if given enough time. The things that you can't teach- athleticism and size- are there in spades for him. He just needs to keep practicing. That's why he's the better prospect. I like Trey way more, but he has a much harder path to making it than Cossa.

It’s crazy to me that 6’1” is short for a goalie now. Osgood and Vernon were both less than 5’10”. Hasek was 6’1” and did fine.

 

[HisNoodliness]

It’s crazy to me that 6’1” is short for a goalie now. Osgood and Vernon were both less than 5’10”. Hasek was 6’1” and did fine.

Honestly it's really crazy. I don't think it's going to slow down either. I imagine that by the 2040s, the average goalie height is going to be like 6'5

 

[SirloinUB]

It’s crazy to me that 6’1” is short for a goalie now. Osgood and Vernon were both less than 5’10”. Hasek was 6’1” and did fine.

Agreed. I know the league has trended tall on the goalie market for a while now but I still sometimes catch myself surprised when I see how tall some of these dudes are. I didn't realize Cam Talbot was 6'4 until earlier this season.

League average is a shave below 6'3.

Big humans everywhere haha.

 

[RRhoads]

I am not so sure. When you get more big, you also get more injuries, especially on the knees.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Nobody overlooks it. I think it's as simple as this; At the same point in Cossa's development he was not as good as Augustine is now.

Cossa was drafted as a mid 1st rounder in the 2021 draft, a pretty solid overall draft. His D+1 wasn't really much better than his draft year, and his D+2 wasn't anything spectacular. He's still doing pretty good but over the last 7 games his save percentage has dipped a bit, averaging around .885. He wasn't the starter on that Canada U20 WJC gold medal squad and only got into a single game. First goalie drafted that year but there's been a longstanding debate as to if he was the best goalie of his draft class.

Augustine was drafted as an early/mid 2nd rounder but since being drafted has absolutely taken off. Winningest goalie in US history at the WJC U20. 3 golds with Team USA, all as starter. 34-11-4 record with a .919 save percentage on a middle of the road NCAA team. He was the 3rd goalie drafted but is clearly the best from his class.

I think we have a lot to be excited about in Augustine. All the kid does is win.

Honestly my point about the WHL Cup was more in reference to criticism about Cossa’s mentality from a separate post than it was about any comparison to Trey.

I think Trey is awesome and I wouldn’t push back too hard on the idea that he’s been more successful than Cossa has when comparing accolades on a year by year basis. I think that the Cossa pick was always grounded more in projection of where he might be in his D+7 than where he necessarily was in his draft year, and I think we’re reaping the rewards of that decision.

But yeah Trey has been excellent and I’d never push back on anyone who is sky high on the kid.

 

[lilidk]

It’s crazy to me that 6’1” is short for a goalie now. Osgood and Vernon were both less than 5’10”. Hasek was 6’1” and did fine.

Hockey becomes more faster and skilled. Athletic and big goalie is the answer for that.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Agreed. I know the league has trended tall on the goalie market for a while now but I still sometimes catch myself surprised when I see how tall some of these dudes are. I didn't realize Cam Talbot was 6'4 until earlier this season.

League average is a shave below 6'3.

Big humans everywhere haha.

And how much has save percentage dropped? It's been dropping each season for the past 4-5 years.

Being a goalie smaller than 6'2" isn't a barrier to being good. Trey is 6'1" so it's not like he's a 5'7" goalie from the 1970s.

 

[SoupNazi]

Continue here. Prospect Info: - Wings Prospect Discussion, Part II

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Cleveland finally scored on a wrister last night. It wasn't pretty but it went in

 

[saska sault]

What is to be expected of Anton Johansson? Lidstrom had high praise for him not long ago.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Emmitt Finnie has been absolutely obliterating the WHL recently

 

[ShanahanMan]

Emmitt Finnie has been absolutely obliterating the WHL recently

Need to bring him up to GR immediately when the season ends.

 

[SantosHalper]

Part 2

Liiga:
Jesse Kiiskinen, 26 gp, 8+14=22, 8 PIM, -5

NCAA:
Max Plante, 5 gp, 2+4=6, 2 PIM, +2
John Whipple, 20 gp, 0+1=1, 6 PIM, +7
Fisher Scott, 15 gp, 0+2=2, 0 PIM, +8
Trey Augustine, 14 gp, 1.98 GAA, .930 SV%, 11-2-1, 2 SO
Brady Cleveland, 16 gp, 0+1=1, 19 PIM, -2
Larry Keenan, 17 gp, 1+1=2, 10 PIM, +2
Jack Phelan, 17 gp, 0+0, 4 PIM, +3
Dylan James, 19 gp, 5+5=10, 4 PIM, -2
Owen Mehlenbacher, 11 gp, 1+0=1, 2 PIM, -3
Brennan Ali, 18 gp, 4+6=10, 8 PIM, -1
Red Savage, 15 gp, 5+4=9, 4 PIM, +4
Kyle Aucoin, 10 gp, 0+1=1, 0 PIM, +2
Kienan Draper, 15 gp, 2+0=2, 9 PIM, -4

OHL:
Landon Miller, 19 gp, 3.67 GAA, .891 SV%, 7-9-0, 1 SO

Sweden:
Charlie Forslund, 30 gp, 4+9=13, 2 PIM, +3 (J20 Nationell)
Noah Dower-Nilsson, 19 gp, 3+3=6, 4 PIM, 0 (SHL)
Anton Johansson, 22 gp, 2+2=4, 36 PIM, -1 (SHL)
Maximilian Kilpinen, 13 gp, 1+1=2, 0 PIM, -4 (Allsvenskan)
Liam Dower-Nilsson, 29 gp, 15+12=27, 8 PIM, +17 (Allsvenskan)

USHL:
Austin Baker, 20 gp, 4+6=10, 0 PIM, +3
Rudy Guimond, 6 gp, 2.88 GAA, .887 SV%, 1-5-0, 1 SO (switched to QMJHL)

DEL:
Kevin Bicker, 18 gp, 0+4=4, 15 PIM, +3 (injured until January)

WHL:
Emmitt Finnie, 29 gp, 19+27=46, 10 PIM, +1

KHL:
Dmitri Buchelnikov, 34 gp, 8+22=30, 10 PIM, -1

QMJHL:
Rudy Guimond, 1 gp, 2.00 GAA, .949 SV%, 1-0-0

Mid/late round prospect stat watch part 3:

Liiga:
Jesse Kiiskinen, 46 gp, 14+30=44, 30 PIM, +6, (WJC: 7 gp, 6+1=7, 0 PIM, -1, Silver medalist)

NCAA:
Max Plante, 22 gp, 8+17=25, 16 PIM, +3, (WJC: 6 gp, 1+2=3, 4 PIM, +3, Gold medalist)

John Whipple, 29 gp, 0+3=3, 6 PIM, +4

Fisher Scott, 32 gp, 3+7=10, 12 PIM, +/- 0

Trey Augustine, 27 gp, 2.09 GAA, .925 SV%, 17-6-4, 2 SO, (WJC: 5 gp, 2.52 GAA, .917 SV%, 4-1-0, Gold medalist)

Brady Cleveland, 35 gp, 1+2=3, 35 PIM, -2

Larry Keenan, 37 gp, 3+6=9, 16 PIM, +11

Jack Phelan, 36 gp, 0+4=4, 14 PIM, +/- 0

Dylan James, 36 gp, 14+8=22, 20 PIM, -1

Owen Mehlenbacher, 25 gp, 4+2=6, 2 PIM, -2

Brennan Ali, 37 gp, 7+12=19, 18 PIM, -1

Red Savage, 20 gp, 5+6=11, 6 PIM, +6

Kyle Aucoin, -traded-

Kienan Draper, 33 gp, 7+2=9, 37 PIM, -4

OHL:
Landon Miller, 36 gp, 4.14 GAA, .874 SV%, 12-17-1, 1 SO

Sweden:
Charlie Forslund, 44 gp, 9+14=23, 8 PIM, +7 (J20 Nationell)
6 gp, 0+1=1, 0 PIM, +2 (Allsvenskan) & 2 gp, 0+0, 0 PIM, +1 (Allsvenskan playoffs)

Noah Dower-Nilsson, 35 gp, 4+6=10, 10 PIM, -1 (SHL)

Anton Johansson, 46 gp, 5+5=10, 50 PIM, -1 (SHL)

Maximilian Kilpinen, 23 gp, 2+1=3, 0 PIM, -7 (Allsvenskan)
8 gp, 0+2=2, 0 PIM, +2 (HockeyEttan) & 3 gp, 3+1=4, 0 PIM, +3 (HockeyEttan playoffs)

Liam Dower-Nilsson, 52 gp, 20+21=41, 26 PIM, +24 (Allsvenskan)

USHL:
Austin Baker, 46 gp, 8+15=23, 19 PIM, +6

DEL:
Kevin Bicker, 20 gp, 0+5=5, 15 PIM, +3 (rookie of the year)
2 gp, 0+0, 2 PIM, +/-0 (DEL playoffs)

WHL:
Emmitt Finnie, 52 gp, 36+46=82, 26 PIM, +/- 0

KHL:
Dmitri Buchelnikov, 62 gp, 15+36=51, 10 PIM, -5

QMJHL:
Rudy Guimond, 14 gp, 1.48 GAA, .950 SV%, 14-0-0, 3 SO