lilidk
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- Mar 4, 2008
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Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion
- Thread starter Winger98
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wingerdinger
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- Oct 21, 2018
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The main difference for Danielson in Portland has been PP production, and that's a result of playing with four other guys more talented than those he played with on Brandon's PP. At ES, in Brandon he had 20 points in 26GP, a pretty respectable rate considering quality of teammates; in Portland, until his recent outburst, he had 18ES points in his first 23 GP, almost exactly the same scoring rate he had in Brandon. Two recent games, one of them against an over-matched team that Portland outshot 47-7 through two periods, bumped up his numbers. There is nothing less relevant to Danielson's NHL future than what he does in 11-1 wins over a team that might have had trouble beating a good BCHL team that night.
The primary characteristic of Danielson's play, aside from the obvious skating ability, is how unselfish he is. Almost literally to a fault in terms of padding his own numbers. He's one of the most unselfish quality Junior players you will ever see. He is driven to make himself useful, in any situation, in any part of the ice. He appears to have a very mature understanding of his limitations and what he needs to do to help his team, thus his deserved reputation as a great defensive center and positional versatility. His offensive skills are not flashy. He doesn't dangle through defensemen, consistently hang onto the puck for long stretches by turning checkers inside out. He's not an outside-the-box creative thinker. He's very good, not great on faceoffs (second-best on his own team both last season and now in Portland). His shot is good, not great (about 12 per cent shooting percentage), at least in part because he isn't looking for his shot (less than four shots per game). But his commitment to defense, his reach and speed, his unselfishness with the puck and in puck support, willingness to go to any area, make him a guy coaches love and who will benefit anyone he plays with. He could end up an effective 2C even if not likely to be the most offensively gifted player on that line. Perhaps something like Bennett, though there is still a pretty wide range of outcomes.
Any lack of enthusiasm for Kasper is puzzling. His prodution as a 19yo AHL rookie is much better than Kesler's, on par with Zibanejad's, and slightly behind JT Miller's in their 19yo AHL rookie seasons. He is not boring in any way, unless you need to see Datsyukian moves to get excited about a prospect. He is not hard to notice in a positive way almost every game. His physical commitment, play-strength, compete level and speed are impressive, he's always on the puck and forcing things, he's not unwilling to shoot and go to greasy areas. It's way too soon to write him off as a guy who won't produce in the NHL; the three players mentioned above didn't become the best versions of themselves until their mid-20s and beyond. Kasper too might have a long runway and there's no reason yet to think he's not on schedule to be a very good NHL middle six C or better.
The primary characteristic of Danielson's play, aside from the obvious skating ability, is how unselfish he is. Almost literally to a fault in terms of padding his own numbers. He's one of the most unselfish quality Junior players you will ever see. He is driven to make himself useful, in any situation, in any part of the ice. He appears to have a very mature understanding of his limitations and what he needs to do to help his team, thus his deserved reputation as a great defensive center and positional versatility. His offensive skills are not flashy. He doesn't dangle through defensemen, consistently hang onto the puck for long stretches by turning checkers inside out. He's not an outside-the-box creative thinker. He's very good, not great on faceoffs (second-best on his own team both last season and now in Portland). His shot is good, not great (about 12 per cent shooting percentage), at least in part because he isn't looking for his shot (less than four shots per game). But his commitment to defense, his reach and speed, his unselfishness with the puck and in puck support, willingness to go to any area, make him a guy coaches love and who will benefit anyone he plays with. He could end up an effective 2C even if not likely to be the most offensively gifted player on that line. Perhaps something like Bennett, though there is still a pretty wide range of outcomes.
Any lack of enthusiasm for Kasper is puzzling. His prodution as a 19yo AHL rookie is much better than Kesler's, on par with Zibanejad's, and slightly behind JT Miller's in their 19yo AHL rookie seasons. He is not boring in any way, unless you need to see Datsyukian moves to get excited about a prospect. He is not hard to notice in a positive way almost every game. His physical commitment, play-strength, compete level and speed are impressive, he's always on the puck and forcing things, he's not unwilling to shoot and go to greasy areas. It's way too soon to write him off as a guy who won't produce in the NHL; the three players mentioned above didn't become the best versions of themselves until their mid-20s and beyond. Kasper too might have a long runway and there's no reason yet to think he's not on schedule to be a very good NHL middle six C or better.
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RabidBadger
Play ****ing hockey.
I was sure Gylander was a goner. I don't know how much upside he has as a prospect at this point but I think he's worth a shot to keep in the system.
I feel the same about Cooper Moore. Now the watch is on for him.
norrisnick
The best...
- Apr 14, 2005
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If Burgers is salty about being stuck in the AHL, two weeks getting NHL pay is just about a full season of AHL pay on an ELC.
heyfolks
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- Apr 30, 2007
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I have only seen a few Griffin games, and highlights. It would appear he needs every eligible AHL game to be able to protect said puck and move it effectively. You are right in that he just doesn't have the speed nor mindset to be a power forward or banger.
Kasper is going to be a fine player, but this Red Wings team is starved for elite talent. It's not a knock on Kasper to call him a middle six center. No need to lie about Kasper's production. His production in the AHL is well behind Kesler's was in his D+2 season, Zibanejad produced at a better rate in the NHL in his D+2 than Kasper has in the AHL this year. JT Miller forced his way onto the Rangers in his D+2 season. All of those players had good D+2 seasons, Kasper's season is disappointing compared to all those.
Lying? Dude, here are some facts:
Kasper started his first AHL season aged 19 years old, six months.
Zibanejad started his first AHL season aged 19 years old, six months (a couple weeks younger than Kasper) after playing nine NHL games (one point) the previous season. He had 11 points in 23 GP in his AHL rookie season when called up by Ottawa. On par with the same aged Kasper.
Miller started his first AHL season aged 19 years old, seven months. He had played eight AHL playoff games the previous season (one point). He was called up in February of that rookie AHL season and then returned to Connecticut two months later. He had 23 points in 42 AHL games. Slightly better (though almost exactly the same) than the same aged (approximately) Kasper.
Kesler turned 19 years old just two months after being drafted in 2003. The Draft age eligibility rules were different then. He had 11 points in 33 AHL games in the 2003-04 season, well below what the four months older Kasper has done. He played the next full season, his 20yo season, in the AHL.
What teams choose to do in regards to call-ups and NHL opportunities is irrelevant to the players themselves. They get called up for different reasons, for teams in different situations. If anything, Ziba and Miller got a head start on their AHL rookie seasons, compared to Kasper, because of experience the previous season in the NHL and AHL. That Zibanejad and Miller got called up during their AHL rookie seasons, and Kesler played 28 NHL games his rookie pro season, has no bearing whatsoever on how their performance while in the AHL compares to Kasper's.
I'm looking at their draft years, a couple months difference between their ages is negligible. You're right about Kesler, I forgot about the age changes in the draft, so that's not a great comparison as its so long ago. Regardless, all three of those players had better D+2 seasons than Kasper. Kesler/Miller/Zibanejad are all legit 1st line centers on good teams. I think we all hope Kasper can become that, it's just nothing in Kasper's career points to that happening. I'm not disappointed in Kasper, he's going to play in the NHL a really long time, I just wish he flashed more offensive upside as that's what Detroit is severely lacking.
I think looking at actual ages of players is much more useful than Draft years, which have their own unique calendar. I don't know what to tell you except Ziba, Miller and Kasper were all almost exactly the same age when they started in the AHL, Kesler a few months younger.
The thing people sometimes overlook when they compare players is that on the one hand you have a young player with potential, and on the other hand you have an image of the established older comparison. Kesler, Ziba and Miller all turned out to be really good players, but at 19/20 and even their early 20s there were a lot of doubts about all of them.
Do I think Kasper could be Zibanejad? Not a chance IMO. But at 20 and even later, neither did the Senators think Zibanejad would become the player he has. Regardless, I agree with you that Kasper is going to be a good NHL player for a long time. There's no need to rush though to perceive limits for him.
Henkka
Registered User
that's definitely true for Kasper IMO. He started as the 3rd/4th line center and is now #2 and playing on both special teams units.
I don't think anyone was expecting Kasper to become a 1st line NHL center and am confused as to why the conversation has swung that direction. That said, if he can develop into a solid second-line center I think it would be counted as a strong win for a player drafted at 8OA. People should also refresh their recollection on Kesler's NHL production. I feel like we romanticize him a bit at this point.
For the sake of comparisons with others, it's kind of pointless to take into consideration Kasper's summer rehab. We know all the Kasper circumstances because they're happening now, or recently, and widely discussed, but no one knows or remembers what the guy you're comparing him to went through 10, 15, 20 years ago. They might have had off-season surgery, they might have been ill, they might have been getting 20 minutes a game or 12 minutes a game, playing with great linemates or playing with duds. They might have been playing a different position. Maybe they missed games because of injury and took a while to get back on track. The more hypotheticals you take into account on behalf of one player while not knowing the hypotheticals possibly affecting the comparison, the less relevant everything gets.
Comparisons are actually fraught anyway for all sorts of reasons, subjects and numbers cherry-picked to support an opinion. My opinion is Kasper was a good Draft pick and will be a good NHL player, so I'm biased too. I think it's pretty easy to project him as a more physical Cirelli type of player, which might translate into a little more NHL production than Cirelli and in that case a solid No. 2 center or very good 3C. Also a chance he starts out or even ends up at RW. But I'm biased toward liking that kind of player. If someone else's opinion is that a top 10 pick shouldn't be used on that type of player, then they probably didn't like drafting Kasper or at least have major reservations, and see no reason yet to change their mind.
Kasper's been healthy from the start of the season, played more games than any other Griffin, and in the absence of Czarnik is the team's No. 1 center. It's been a good season for him. The point production is not disappointing IMO except to those with unrealistic expectations or only a vague idea of what kind of player he is. Excuses or hypotheticals suggesting he might have had a better season under different circumstances just makes subjective comparisons even less relevant than they already are.
People just need to watch the Griffins. Too many takes are stuck in the beginning of the year, when nothing was working. Kasper has been excellent for a while now. If you watch the way he's playing now, I think you'll have a lot fewer questions about his upside.
Holden Caufield
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Holden Caufield
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19 for president
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I really like that he is stepping up even more now offensively with Czarnik and Berggy up with the Wings and Mazur out with injury. Thats a big step towards taking that offense to the NHL level.
Kasper is going to be a guy you win games with. He's gritty, doesn't play a perimeter game, is defensively responsible, and improving on faceoffs. He may not be an elite offensive player at the NHL level, but it's hard to get those guy where we drafted Kasper.
As for overall GR struggled early because they had a bit of a perfect storm setup. Brand new coach and system, massive roster turnover (only 8ish players returning if you count Hanas and Soder partials), 6 AHL rookies and 1 almost rookie (Soder 20 games). Then you had Ed and Kasper both playing back into shape after offseason recoveries. Add to that their best returning vet/ center in Czarnik was up with the Wings for a lot of the early part of the season. They even lost Lashoff as captain and while he was in the dressing room as a coach, you still don't get that same on ice presence. (See Larkin, Dylan and the Wings recent losing streak)
OgeeOgelthorpe
Riccis per 60 record holder
- Feb 29, 2020
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Context is your friend.
Look up his stats from October to December. Then look at them from January to now.
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