Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

[jkutswings]

I'm not classing Danielson as a middle six guy. He's going to be a very good 2c. I think he'll be a 70-80p guy on the second line.

Larkin is a 70-80 point guy on the first line. Are you picturing a roster with essentially two first lines worth of firepower?

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Larkin is a 70-80 point guy on the first line. Are you picturing a roster with essentially two first lines worth of firepower?

Times are changing, you can either have a first line with players potting 100 points or spread it across the first two lines. IMO Dylan Larkin would be a 2c on a Cup-level team so having two Larkin-level players centering the top two lines is a good way to spread it out.

 

[jkutswings]

Times are changing, you can either have a first line with players potting 100 points or spread it across the first two lines. IMO Dylan Larkin would be a 2c on a Cup-level team so having two Larkin-level players centering the top two lines is a good way to spread it out.

I understand the possibility of the overall talent level at center. I'm just surprised that either you think Detroit will have four wingers that will contribute that much offense, or you think Danielson will be able to carry more typical second line players to that extent.

 

[lidstromiscool]

I'm not classing Danielson as a middle six guy. He's going to be a very good 2c. I think he'll be a 70-80p guy on the second line.

That would be a Mark Scheifele clone. I'm extremely skeptical Danielson can score 70 points in the NHL, he won't even get 70 points in the WHL in his 19 year old season. Scheifele put up 79 points in 45 games in his 19 year old season.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

That would be a Mark Scheifele clone. I'm extremely skeptical Danielson can score 70 points in the NHL, he won't even get 70 points in the WHL in his 19 year old season. Scheifele put up 79 points in 45 games in his 19 year old season.

Danielson is scoring at a 1.4 PPG clip now that he isn't stuck with linemates whose only exposure to the NHL will be watching games from the nosebleeds.

Scheifele's D+1 was on the Barrie Colts, with former NHL HoFer Dale Hawerchuk as coach, and five PPG players on the roster with multiple first and second round NHL picks. Danielson started his D+1 on a team that will finish with no PPG players and only one drafted player, who was taken in the 7th round.

If Danielson had played his entire season in Portland his PPG pace would put him at 98 points in 68 games.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Danielson is scoring at a 1.4 PPG clip now that he isn't stuck with linemates whose only exposure to the NHL will be watching games from the nosebleeds.

Scheifele's D+1 was on the Barrie Colts, with former NHL HoFer Dale Hawerchuk as coach, and five PPG players on the roster with multiple first and second round NHL picks. Danielson started his D+1 on a team that will finish with no PPG players and only one drafted player, who was taken in the 7th round.

If Danielson had played his entire season in Portland his PPG pace would put him at 98 points in 68 games.

Difference is Scheifele is a normal birthday, thus his D+1 was his 18 year old season, whereas Danielson is a late birthday, thus his D+1 is his 19 year old season.

 

[19 for president]

I tend to agree with @19 for president.
Buium will be a very difficult signing for the Red Wings.

Put yourself in his shoes. He knows full well he will be berried in Grand Rapids next year if he signs here. There is no lie Yzerman can tell this kid to fool him into thinking otherwise.

Why wouldn’t he play one more year of college hockey with his brother instead? He is then free to listen to offers from every single team in the league.

Maybe some team/s step up with realistic NHL promises to entice him to sign. Maybe he just wants to sign with the team that drafts his brother? Maybe he has a strong desire to stay out West?

Many different possibilities open up for him in 1 years time. (It would also allow him to graduate with his class)

This 100%. You are only going to have so many young dmen on a team at once. Seider is here. Ed is a lock. Then you have Aljo, Wallinder, Tuomisto, ASP all looking like NHLers, with 3 of those guys in the AHL already. You also still have Viro down there.

I feel like the Wings would have to guarantee him an NHL spot to get him to sign and I don't see Stevie doing that. In contrast he can hang for one more year, probably get to play with his brother again, rack up big time numbers, and then be a UFA. If he puts up big numbers again next year I'm sure there are teams that would ensure he got an NHL shot right away.

 

[Hen Kolland]

You specifically said “at this point” and “these days”

Right, meaning that where we stand today, Soderblom is likely going to be a career AHL or SHL player. He looked mediocre during camp this year and has carried that into a very mediocre season for Grand Rapids. Whatever spark he had making the Wings in 2022-23 has faded almost entirely.

He's been surpassed by Kasper and Mazur in GR, Danielson is likely to be considered ahead of him, Berggren is in a similar boat but still well ahead of him (and Berggren is kind of iffy in his future with Detroit).

He doesn't play hard enough to fit in a Lalonde bottom 6 role, and he's not talented enough at this time to play in a top 6 role. So, at this point, he is essentially worthless in the grand scheme of things.

Doesn't mean it can't change, but don't hold your breath.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

That would be a Mark Scheifele clone. I'm extremely skeptical Danielson can score 70 points in the NHL, he won't even get 70 points in the WHL in his 19 year old season. Scheifele put up 79 points in 45 games in his 19 year old season.

Where did Danielson play at before he got traded? An absolute offensive blackhole of a team.

You cannot say you don’t see him being an 70-80pt player because of where he was during the first half of this season.

He is definitely more of a 1.3-1.5ppg player in juniors over a 1.0ppg.

Please read @Roomba With a Bauer comment for more context.

 

[Frk It]

Danielson is scoring at a 1.4 PPG clip now that he isn't stuck with linemates whose only exposure to the NHL will be watching games from the nosebleeds.

Scheifele's D+1 was on the Barrie Colts, with former NHL HoFer Dale Hawerchuk as coach, and five PPG players on the roster with multiple first and second round NHL picks. Danielson started his D+1 on a team that will finish with no PPG players and only one drafted player, who was taken in the 7th round.

If Danielson had played his entire season in Portland his PPG pace would put him at 98 points in 68 games.

Brandon has a forward who will go top 10 next year. They also have a defenseman who probably will go in the 1st round this year. They’re also a playoff team.

That team is not nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be. Glad Danielson is playing well on a powerhouse, but to be totally honest I think he should have been able to more on Brandon given his age and skill set.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

Brandon has a forward who will go top 10 next year. They also have a defenseman who probably will go in the 1st round this year. They’re also a playoff team.

That team is not nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be. Glad Danielson is playing well on a powerhouse, but to be totally honest I think he should have been able to more on Brandon given his age and skill set.

They are still, as far as teams with ACTAUL talent in juniors, bottom of the barrel.

While yes, Danielson was a top 10 pick, and he should have been producing at a higher clip, I just feel like the way he plays, and his skill set didn’t really mesh with how Brandon played overall.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

You specifically said “at this point” and “these days”

Cool.

I'm not classing Danielson as a middle six guy. He's going to be a very good 2c. I think he'll be a 70-80p guy on the second line.

Since when is a 2C not a middle six guy? I am totally confused.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Cool.


Since when is a 2C not a middle six guy? I am totally confused.

The frequency of which people use top 6 and middle 6 as differentiating classifications when it includes 50% overlap has always been kind of funny to me.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This 100%. You are only going to have so many young dmen on a team at once. Seider is here. Ed is a lock. Then you have Aljo, Wallinder, Tuomisto, ASP all looking like NHLers, with 3 of those guys in the AHL already. You also still have Viro down there.

I feel like the Wings would have to guarantee him an NHL spot to get him to sign and I don't see Stevie doing that. In contrast he can hang for one more year, probably get to play with his brother again, rack up big time numbers, and then be a UFA. If he puts up big numbers again next year I'm sure there are teams that would ensure he got an NHL shot right away.

I like Buium, but no one is guaranteeing him an NHL roster spot.

 

[19 for president]

I like Buium, but no one is guaranteeing him an NHL roster spot.

Not over other prospects we currently have. Ed and Aljo should both get a shot beforehand. If this was 3 years ago then we absolutely could. It's how we got Dekeyser back in the day, but the Wings have equal or better prospects.

Sometimes the guys just want the 10 games to burn a year of their ELC which is something the Wings could potentially do.

The frequency of which people use top 6 and middle 6 as differentiating classifications when it includes 50% overlap has always been kind of funny to me.

The way I've always looked it is where the guy can play ok but probably a bit over his head.

Top 6 (may be a bit out of top place on the 1st line but is solidly a 2nd line guy)
Middle 6 (could do spot duty as a 2nd line guy but is better suited as a 3rd line guy)

Like right now the Wings have a bunch of middle 6 centers but only one top 6 in Larkin. The minute he got hurt we fell apart.

I think Danielson will project as a top 6 center, whereas I think Kasper is more likely to be a middle 6 center. Kasper may be top 6 if he is eventually converted to winger but I think a majority top 6 centers have to be able to control play offensively and defensively.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Not over other prospects we currently have. Ed and Aljo should both get a shot beforehand. If this was 3 years ago then we absolutely could. It's how we got Dekeyser back in the day, but the Wings have equal or better prospects.

Sometimes the guys just want the 10 games to burn a year of their ELC which is something the Wings could potentially do.



The way I've always looked it is where the guy can play ok but probably a bit over his head.

Top 6 (may be a bit out of top place on the 1st line but is solidly a 2nd line guy)
Middle 6 (could do spot duty as a 2nd line guy but is better suited as a 3rd line guy)

Like right now the Wings have a bunch of middle 6 centers but only one top 6 in Larkin. The minute he got hurt we fell apart.

I think Danielson will project as a top 6 center, whereas I think Kasper is more likely to be a middle 6 center. Kasper may be top 6 if he is eventually converted to winger but I think a majority top 6 centers have to be able to control play offensively and defensively.

It's not even just that. There are plenty of guys who aren't guaranteed to be 300 game NHLers, more so AAAA guys, who just want to be guaranteed NHL games to make NHL money, get the experience, have it on their resume when they want to go to some sort of European Pro league if they don't progress in North America. Can't blame people for using leverage to make more money.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Not over other prospects we currently have. Ed and Aljo should both get a shot beforehand. If this was 3 years ago then we absolutely could. It's how we got Dekeyser back in the day, but the Wings have equal or better prospects.

Sometimes the guys just want the 10 games to burn a year of their ELC which is something the Wings could potentially do.

Most NHL team today would not guarantee him NHL games if he was a college undrafted kid. I certainly think he would get a contract though.

Personally I think the logjam in GR will clear itself up. We always tend to focus on problems that don't really exist. If we make moves this summer, some will be included in those deals. One or two will graduate to the big club, one or two will have injuries, and some like Viro may head back to Europe.

 

[19 for president]

Most NHL team today would not guarantee him NHL games if he was a college undrafted kid. I certainly think he would get a contract though.

Personally I think the logjam in GR will clear itself up. We always tend to focus on problems that don't really exist. If we make moves this summer, some will be included in those deals. One or two will graduate to the big club, one or two will have injuries, and some like Viro may head back to Europe.

Agreed. The Wings are going to have to move on from some of these guys, because no NHL team has an entirely drafted defense. Wings already have 1 on the roster, another that was just called up and a 3rd that is out of waiver options for next year that looks NHL ready from all accounts I've read.

There will definitely be an AHL spot open for him next year with Ed and Aljo likely being with the Wings. With that said if he is looking for a clearer path to the NHL holding out for a year and signing with a team that has less defensive prospect depth makes sense.

He could sign with a basement dweller that would agree to give him a 10 game look next season if he signed. He burns a year of ELC and gets a clearer path to the NHL.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

This seems like the most likely outcome I agree.

Also does anyone here keep up with the KHL?

I’ve always been intrigued with the scouting report of Buchelnikov. Seems like one of the very few boom or bust prospects we have.

His numbers seem fairly decent this season? Is there some real potential there? When can we expect him in the AHL/NHL?

I've seen a half-dozen Admiral games. Boom/bust potential as a 2nd line, PP2 goal scorer, Dadonov-esque. He was Admiral's most talented offensive forward for sure. He started in the bottom 6, and then after 10 games he forced himself into the top 6 and spent about 20 games on line 1.

His contract with SKA St. Petersburg ends after the 2024-25 season (currently on loan with Admiral). I expect he'll spend a year in the AHL after that unless he completely blows the doors off the building. My thoughts on him:

• Really slippery and can be very hard to contain
• Drives the middle of the ice and drives to the net to score
• Excellent motor, doesn't give up on the puck
• Scoring touch and his shot are easily his best assets. Getting it off in tight spaces + awkward stances IMO are NHL-level
• His agility is quite good and his top speed is surprisingly fast I've noticed
• Pretty good playmaking and good puck handling, but it's not elite by any means
• Defensively he's got good awareness, but the speed of the NHL game may cut down the time he has to evade board play like he usually does and get outmuscled instead.

We may have a Coyotes Conor Garland on our hands, or we may have a bust. I do love the scoring touch, the mobility, and the motor combination. He seems like a really determined kid.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Brandon has a forward who will go top 10 next year. They also have a defenseman who probably will go in the 1st round this year. They’re also a playoff team.

That team is not nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be. Glad Danielson is playing well on a powerhouse, but to be totally honest I think he should have been able to more on Brandon given his age and skill set.

My brother in Christ, they are as bad as advertised. I have watched them in person and they are realbad.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

I echo what Ogee said. I've watched Brandon a good number of times this year end every single time I came away wondering what the the hell the coaching staff are running there. Danielson genuinely looked neutered out there and MUCH less engaged as he is now with Portland. He's just a much better fit into a structured system. Hence why he looked good in preseason NHL action.

McQueen is pretty good, but he hasn't taken off this season because the team is so awful. Elick is merely okay to me, but he's not a strong puck moving d-man.

 

[heyfolks]

I tend to agree with @19 for president.
Buium will be a very difficult signing for the Red Wings.

Put yourself in his shoes. He knows full well he will be berried in Grand Rapids next year if he signs here. There is no lie Yzerman can tell this kid to fool him into thinking otherwise.

Why wouldn’t he play one more year of college hockey with his brother instead? He is then free to listen to offers from every single team in the league.

Maybe some team/s step up with realistic NHL promises to entice him to sign. Maybe he just wants to sign with the team that drafts his brother? Maybe he has a strong desire to stay out West?

Many different possibilities open up for him in 1 years time. (It would also allow him to graduate with his class)

Thank you for the insight. Logical all the way through. (I support more players taking the college route before jumping into the pro ranks.)

Havent given up on soderblom ... I've had concerns with buium for a while now these college kids always scare me ... not worried about augustine or savage since their both playing in michigan but if we don't sign buium by this summer I'd be throwing him in a deal for a good young prospect

I haven't given up on Soderblom but he isn't that big, tough power forward "find" many thought he would be for the Wings. If he has any snarl, is effective on the boards and can take up residence above the crease on the PP he'll be a solid 4th line addition. I don't see him as more than that, but certainly an important piece of the puzzle.

 

[lilidk]

Possible Kasper and Mazur injured, left game earlier

 

[letsgowings9999]

Thank you for the insight. Logical all the way through. (I support more players taking the college route before jumping into the pro ranks.)



I haven't given up on Soderblom but he isn't that big, tough power forward "find" many thought he would be for the Wings. If he has any snarl, is effective on the boards and can take up residence above the crease on the PP he'll be a solid 4th line addition. I don't see him as more than that, but certainly an important piece of the puzzle.

I dont think hes a power forward but hes a 6'8 body with skill and I'd imagine would be harder for opponents to knock the puck off him at times

Much rather give him a shot then some current guys and our team consists of many smurfs so I wouldnt be opposed to adding him

 

[schuelma24]