Peasy
Registered User
Its clear that it doesn't matter what he does, certain people will only ever have negative things to say about him.
William Nylander Discussion Thread
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I don't know if you guys picked up on this but when Keefer put Mik on line with JT and Willy in 3rd period .. Willy took off ... like I said yesterday Kerfoot is wrong FIT for those 2 guys ... i like kerfoot much more this year but something in his game does not mesh with Willy ... it was good Keefer saw it too ... and a little change helped .. and then move to Matty in OT was even more brilliant ... there is a game where da coach should get a little credit too
BlueForever75
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2017
- 5,691
- 2,303
I would put Barbarov on the wing with Tavares and Nylander. Give it a shot. He's looked more comfortable the past couple of games. Has speed and skill. With better players he may flourish.
I don't care who but Hyman, Mik and/or Barabanov would be fine for Willy ... Kerfoot is not right FIT ... Kerfoot more effective for team as 3rd line centre ... Willy needs a guy who can create open ice for Willy ... yes it is a bit selfish but again who cares hockey is a game all about FIT ... lines are important ... defense pairings are important .. and we need RIGHT mix
Nylander's production and analytics under Keefe so far (66 games)
Production (with league rank out of the 88 forwards who have played at least 1100+ minutes):
Goals/60: 1.54 (10th out of 88)
Points/60: 2.98 (23rd out of 88)
5v5 stats (with league rank out of the 54 forwards who have played at least 800+ minutes):
CF%: 54.11 (5th out of 54)
xGF%: 54.70 (11th out of 54)
Production (with league rank out of the 88 forwards who have played at least 1100+ minutes):
Goals/60: 1.54 (10th out of 88)
Points/60: 2.98 (23rd out of 88)
5v5 stats (with league rank out of the 54 forwards who have played at least 800+ minutes):
CF%: 54.11 (5th out of 54)
xGF%: 54.70 (11th out of 54)
Two players I think can create space for him are Robertson (hard worker, speed) and Hyman. Problem is their both wingers and none of our C’s except Matthews do that. If Nylander played centre then Robertson-Nylander-Hyman would be an interesting line
At some point Willy will be centre and JT will move to wing ... my prediction was/ and still is it will happen in 2022, latest 2023 ... people got all up in arms when i said it when he signed but I think more people are now getting it ... if Leafs win Cup this year and JT's gets to pick it up then he will give C to Matty next year
MattySnipes
Registered User
Judas Tavares
S2S (Sundin2Sandin)
- Feb 9, 2007
- 10,188
- 3,632
The Athletic article that came out from last night mentioned a lot of things I agree about the public's opinion of Willy, but one thing that stood out to me.
Now I am a Willy supporter, but that doesn't blind me from knowing when he needs to be better. And leading up to being benched and called out, ya, he needed to be a lot better.
That being said, the line from the article that stood out was something like "Nylander giving away the puck draws more ire than a similar turnover by Marner".
I understand that with what Willy is paid, he is expected to contribute in many ways, or if he can't, he needs to be elite at what he is best at. But the above to me is classic whipping boy example, but almost more to an extreme.
Kind of like when they say you can't fire the players, so you fire the coach. It is an easier and more efficient way out. Well, it is also easy to blame Willy, rather than blame a handful of players or an entire team effort.
Does he make himself an easy target in terms of blame with his play sometimes? Absolutely. But it has become more than that. Instead of the easy target, he's become an automatic target. Whether he is the easiest to blame, the first one to come to mind or a target through groupthink. Let's blame Willy for X,Y and Z, even if only X was his fault (or in some cases, none was his fault but I dislike the player so much that I'll just resort to it).
He needs to be better, he needs to take a lot of responsibility based on his salary and role, but I think when things are bad, he's just become the one to blame sometimes cause every one else is doing it.
I'm trying to give Willy a fair shake here, many others are too, but many have made up their minds and won't revert back no matter what happens.
Now I am a Willy supporter, but that doesn't blind me from knowing when he needs to be better. And leading up to being benched and called out, ya, he needed to be a lot better.
That being said, the line from the article that stood out was something like "Nylander giving away the puck draws more ire than a similar turnover by Marner".
I understand that with what Willy is paid, he is expected to contribute in many ways, or if he can't, he needs to be elite at what he is best at. But the above to me is classic whipping boy example, but almost more to an extreme.
Kind of like when they say you can't fire the players, so you fire the coach. It is an easier and more efficient way out. Well, it is also easy to blame Willy, rather than blame a handful of players or an entire team effort.
Does he make himself an easy target in terms of blame with his play sometimes? Absolutely. But it has become more than that. Instead of the easy target, he's become an automatic target. Whether he is the easiest to blame, the first one to come to mind or a target through groupthink. Let's blame Willy for X,Y and Z, even if only X was his fault (or in some cases, none was his fault but I dislike the player so much that I'll just resort to it).
He needs to be better, he needs to take a lot of responsibility based on his salary and role, but I think when things are bad, he's just become the one to blame sometimes cause every one else is doing it.
I'm trying to give Willy a fair shake here, many others are too, but many have made up their minds and won't revert back no matter what happens.
crump
~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Even when he’s the hero, he is extremely lazy, scoring only in the last minute and in overtime facing only 4 skaters
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Good to see Willie excited to score that greasy goal to tie it and even better to see him go to the net to score the winner. Want to keep seeing more of it, especially in the playoffs. Now if JT would just wake up from his slumber.
Thats spot on.
It seems like Leafsnation needs a whipping boy or someone to blame whenever they lose a game or not playing well.
Can Willie be better, the answer is yes and that goes to all the players.
pfft another perimeter goal, should of carried the puck 3 more inches then it would of been a greasy gud pro goal
Just a rediculous post!! Really what is in your head? 3 inches?? He only needed to go another 2.5 inches. 3 is totally an unreasonable expectation
BlueForever75
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2017
- 5,691
- 2,303
Isnt that the case for most Leaf fans. We are used to running perfectly good players out of town. People wont know how good of a player Nylander actually is until he is gone lighting it up for someone else.
Then these boards will be full of posters asking Dubas to acquire another winger with his skill set. Very funny.
Griffin76
Registered User
You and your level headed thinking...how dare you.
Teeder Keon
Defeat does not rest lightly on their shoulders
I gave WN his well deserved accolades yesterday and am very thankful for his effort and production yesterday ..
And for the record he was not at fault for the goal against , that’s on the centre and d man in front of the net .. always ...
I also won’t make excuses for myself for being very tough on WN as he just hasn’t shown consistency on all areas of his game , not even close , will that come ? Does he have the tools , yes will he now start showing his team and coaching staff ? Let’s hope , as I like him as a person , but I’m strictly reviewing his play since he’s been with the leafs , by the way , this pattern of his dogged him in Junior and in the “A” as well nothing new ..
So is it great that he came through last night , yes it is and it’s awesome as with him and JT producing , it will greatly enhance our chances ..
Now let’s see for the next 5 games , which Willy do we get , now that’s the question
Remember the first game this season , he was absolutely terrific . Then ???? Then after that ok game and shifts Then ??? Then last night , he wasn’t perfect but good enough , now let’s see
I wish him the best , I don’t hate him , I’m just realistic that’s all
Good luck WN good luck
We could use your consistent effort big time
I'm sure there will be some posts to the contrary Hahaha
Honestly though I was thinking about what people were talking about because when I watch him I don't think he's slowing down I see his head swiveling and assessing what's going on then he moves
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What are you calling consistent? Is it something that can be seen through stats or something in the eye test realm?
kevsh
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2018
- 3,899
- 5,533
I'm no NHL coach but from what I've seen of both players Tavares and Nylander prefer to carry the puck a lot, esp. on zone entries and it's all but chained to their stick in the o-zone until a lane/shot opens up. If I recall this was the issue when Pitt tried Kessel on Crosby's wing.
I'm not sure what the answer is besides moving Willy to the 3rd line (and evening out the 5/5 time between lines; He should be getting top 6 minutes), but that's not realistic until at least Simmonds returns.
I'm not sure what the answer is besides moving Willy to the 3rd line (and evening out the 5/5 time between lines; He should be getting top 6 minutes), but that's not realistic until at least Simmonds returns.
This is da level headed way to look at it ... stick with da facts ... where did Willy go from game 1 to game 21???? ... that is 2 games out of 21 where he is best player on da ice ... last year I am guessing he had maybe 15-20 where he was our best guy ... i was hoping this year it would be like 50% of games ... but 2 out of 21 is a regression for sure ... i still would not trade him because he has da full package he is our only 5 tool guy - he can wheel straight line with Rielly, he can turl with Mitch, he can shoot close to Matty and he can stickhandle close to JT and he can play physical but never chooses to ... when he is ON he can do what no one else on our team can do which you saw on winning goal ... HE JUST NEEDS TO DO IT IN MORE GAMES ... I hope last year was not an outlier and he can still grow from here
Teeder Keon
Defeat does not rest lightly on their shoulders
Stats , my eyes , does a player come back hard all the time ( not mostly ) does a player come up with the puck more often than not when fore checking ,points , positioning more often than not , does a player put himself in hard traffic places in order to score , does a player rub a player out when possible , or take the body , game awareness , does a player go hard almost every part of their shift .. but in my case , it’s mostly 55 plus years of following hockey , playing at somewhat of a high level , coaching , and being a avid fan of the game and comparing players that do things things way more often than not , at a younger level and then at a junior level then at a college or minor level then at a pro level ..
So I try to take all those things in consideration and give my “ opinion “ .
Some of those points are subjective, some you can put stats to , and some are a feel for the game ..
Again it’s not personal to the player at all , I’m a leaf fan through and through and I’ve witnessed and been part of quite a bit and also have followed our great teams history , but I’m also a fan of the sport ..
If you really want a comparable, just look at what AM has done in the last part of last year then the off season and how he has put it all together this year , truly a testament to his dedication to himself and his team and coaches .
He now does all of those things mentioned above , almost every shift , weather he’s scoring or not ..
Look at a small MM who engages in all of those things above mentioned , weather he’s scoring or not , most of the time .
Go Leafs Go
Teeder Keon
Defeat does not rest lightly on their shoulders
I wouldn’t trade him now or the near future as well ..
I’m glad you see that I’m trying to be very objective and trying to give my opinion based on a number of types of information in front of me , but mostly I will admit is just really well watching the games ..
Man o man do I wish we had 2 lines scoring and playing hard all the time even when their not scoring , we literally would be genuinely top 2-4 team in the league as if you have 2 lines that are similar in points and output in aggressive hard play with and without the puck , it becomes almost impossible for 90% of teams to counter ..
I really do wish him well as I want to win as much as anyone , and he’s one of our keys in achieving that ultimate goal
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Fair! Except the using Matthews as an example. He is generational or very close to it Willie is not.
That said a player cannot be 100% in all those things and isn't it only fair to expect different levels of players to have different success ratios?
As is Nylander's numbers, where they can be tracked, are good and consistent with players of equal skill level. Things left to the eye test will always be seen through our bias
