William Nylander Discussion Thread

[Gabriel426]

Consistency will always be his struggle, it's why he'll always be the 4th member of the big 4.
He's played well this year though, best of his career

Even when he is not putting up points, overall, he is playing a strong two ways game with zone exit, take away….I think he is adjusting to be a better player and also be a better linemate.
I really don’t think he should be playing with JT or AM bc he is at his best leading his own line.
To me, AM and him can’t play with each other anymore bc Willie is a shoot first player now and AM is looking to shoot than pass.
JT is in the same situation except JT plays a more cycle game/dump and chase.

 

[Fogelhund]

Even when he is not putting up points, overall, he is playing a strong two ways game with zone exit, take away….I think he is adjusting to be a better player and also be a better linemate.
I really don’t think he should be playing with JT or AM bc he is at his best leading his own line.
To me, AM and him can’t play with each other anymore bc Willie is a shoot first player now and AM is looking to shoot than pass.
JT is in the same situation except JT plays a more cycle game/dump and chase.

How do you come up with a lineup at a point when you do this though?

 

[Notsince67]

Even when he is not putting up points, overall, he is playing a strong two ways game with zone exit, take away….I think he is adjusting to be a better player and also be a better linemate.
I really don’t think he should be playing with JT or AM bc he is at his best leading his own line.
To me, AM and him can’t play with each other anymore bc Willie is a shoot first player now and AM is looking to shoot than pass.
JT is in the same situation except JT plays a more cycle game/dump and chase.

Willy is paid too much for the third line and that role is currently held by Kampf.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

You sure about that? Not sure about a backcheck stat but

Marner leads the team in takeaways this year.

In the 3 years prior,
Marner 142 in 134 games
Nylander 92 in 139 games

Saying he is second to none might be a bit of a stretch without some hard evidence.

I didn't mention takeaways i just said he has a knack for being the guy racing back after a bad pinch or a neutral zone break downs
Usually as the second or 3rd guy back

 

[Gabriel426]

How do you come up with a lineup at a point when you do this though?

Willy is paid too much for the third line and that role is currently held by Kampf.

That’s the thing, Phil was on a so called 3rd line with Pens and they won back to back Cups.
TB’s 3rd line got Gourde or TJ or Cirelli, plus Goodrow and Coleman.
I really don’t see why letting Willie to play on his own line means he is paid too much to be on a 3rd line or can’t be done. Most importantly, the concept of calling it the 3rd line have more to do with the talents on the line more than anything. Bunting is playing on the first line now and I don’t think he is a first line player. Same can be said with Hyman over the past few years. Bc at the end it can be done even with the current roster.
I might consider JT-AM-MM on a line with Bunting-AF-Willie, then the bottom six stays the same. Or let Bunting-AM-MM, Ritchie-JT-Simmonds, Spezza-AF-Willie and leave the Kampf’s line as is.
Once again, these are just examples.
There are pros and cons to any lineups but that’s what regular season is about, try to mix and match and see which line ups give you the best results.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Phil was on a so called 3rd line with Pens and they won back to back Cups.

To be clear, Kessel was on the "3rd line" for literally one playoffs, because he didn't work all that well with either Crosby or Malkin, and he caught some chemistry with his linemates there for a hot streak. It was quickly changed back early the next year, because it's not a good plan in most situations, and they won the cup again.

 

[Gabriel426]

To be clear, Kessel was on the "3rd line" for literally one playoffs, because he didn't work all that well with either Crosby or Malkin, and he caught some chemistry with his linemates there for a hot streak. It was quickly changed back early the next year, because it's not a good plan in most situations, and they won the cup again.

He was on the HBK with the coach change(I think) the first year after they struggled to start the season where we were thinking that pick could turn into an unprotected top 3 pick the following season.
Their second year due to injuries and stuff, the HBK line didn’t stay in tact.
You are right that the HBK line was on fire in their first Cup playoffs.

Point I am trying to make is that we really should not label that line as a 3rd line or 2nd line… If the teams got talents and good mix, they could have three lines who can score and defence. Look at Vegas, I would say any line with Stone on it should be their 1St line but I really can’t tell which is their second line when healthy. Just like when Malkin and Sid were dominating, which one is the 1st line-Sid or Malkin?

 

[Menzinger]

To be clear, Kessel was on the "3rd line" for literally one playoffs, because he didn't work all that well with either Crosby or Malkin, and he caught some chemistry with his linemates there for a hot streak. It was quickly changed back early the next year, because it's not a good plan in most situations, and they won the cup again.

He had more playoff icetime than Malkin during his first cup with the Pens too

 

[Dekes For Days]

He was on the HBK with the coach change(I think) the first year
Their second year due to injuries and stuff, the HBK line didn’t stay in tact.

That line only existed for 145 minutes during the 2015-2016 regular season. It was primarily used just in the hot streak during the playoffs. The next season they mixed it up again, in part because of injuries, but in much larger part because it wasn't working anymore, and it's inefficient to have a high-end talent on the 3rd line except in very specific situations or during a hot streak you're trying to let play out.

Look at Vegas, I would say any line with Stone on it should be their 1St line but I really can’t tell which is their second line when healthy. Just like when Malkin and Sid were dominating, which one is the 1st line-Sid or Malkin?

Neither of those teams play high-end talents like Nylander on their 3rd line.

 

[Gabriel426]

That line only existed for 145 minutes during the 2015-2016 regular season. It was primarily used just in the hot streak during the playoffs. The next season they mixed it up again, in part because of injuries, but in much larger part because it wasn't working anymore, and it's inefficient to have a high-end talent on the 3rd line except in very specific situations or during a hot streak you're trying to let play out.

Neither of those teams play high-end talents like Nylander on their 3rd line.

My original post was about how I think Willie’s game now is more suited to be the alpha on his line as his game doesn’t match with AM like a few years ago and it is the same with JT.

it had nothing to do with saying Willie is not a talented player or not good enough to be a 1st line player.

Also, I don’t think we should use the definition of a typical 3rd line on Willie’s line if Willie, AM and JT are all leading separate lines.
Like if Line A plays 18mins
Line B plays 15mins
Line C plays 15mins
Line D plays 12mins

Which one is the 3rd line?

For example, maybe having Bunting-AF-Willie as a line will be more productive than Ritchie-JT-Spezza.

Or maybe having JT-Kampf-Kase as a line, this line become much more than a shutdown checking line and can rival the perfection line. Since they can score and defend, it become Leafs top line.
Or the 33mil line is back again bc Bunting-AF-Willie are also producing.
To me, regular season esp now, is a good way for Keefe to try some lines to see if it works. Afterall, that’s what regular season is for.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Like if Line A plays 18mins
Line B plays 15mins
Line C plays 15mins
Line D plays 12mins

The problem is, all of our 4 core forwards should be playing more than 15-18 minutes a game.

To me, regular season esp now, is a good way for Keefe to try some lines to see if it works.

I definitely agree with experimenting with stuff, but there's no reason to expect any of the core 4 to be moved outside of the top 6 for any significant amount of time, because it makes it very difficult to be able to get full value out of them.

 

[Gabriel426]

The problem is, all of our 4 core forwards should be playing more than 15-18 minutes a game.

I definitely agree with experimenting with stuff, but there's no reason to expect any of the core 4 to be moved outside of the top 6 for any significant amount of time, because it makes it very difficult to be able to get full value out of them.

I think with the way Kampf-Kase-Engvall line having an identity. It is less urgent to experiment but it is something I really like Keefe to try in games and if those are dominant shifts, do it the next game and see if those lines can perform for real or just lucky.

If Willie-AF-Bunting can be dominant and produce game in and game out, I really don’t see a problem with having the 10mil boys being on a line. Esp with Kampf’s line taking all the tougher minutes 5 V 5

 

[hotpaws]

Willie seems to perform better driving his own line and not worrying about getting the puck to AM or JT . Toss JT on Mathews wing since pj's is very meh away from Marner and it'll play to his strengths (vulturing around the net) while covering his weaknesses (too slow to keep up with the flow of the game) .

AM with Mitch and JT

Kerfoot with Willie and Kase/Bunting

bottom 6 can stay the same and Ritchie can be waived and sent to the Marlies once Mik is back

 

[Janvonpobben]

 

[James Blackley]

Nah he's saying "The party is at Biebers house tonight, can you please be the deisngated driver bud?".

 

[Jojalu]

Willie seems to perform better driving his own line and not worrying about getting the puck to AM or JT . Toss JT on Mathews wing since pj's is very meh away from Marner and it'll play to his strengths (vulturing around the net) while covering his weaknesses (too slow to keep up with the flow of the game) .

AM with Mitch and JT

Kerfoot with Willie and Kase/Bunting

bottom 6 can stay the same and Ritchie can be waived and sent to the Marlies once Mik is back

I think you are on to something. When Nylander is driving his own line it seems he is more productive. He is a little more aggressive taking the puck to the net and has a shoot first mentality odf the rush.

When he is with Matthews or JT, it appears he is looking pass first.

 

[ToneDog]

I think you are on to something. When Nylander is driving his own line it seems he is more productive. He is a little more aggressive taking the puck to the net and has a shoot first mentality odf the rush.

When he is with Matthews or JT, it appears he is looking pass first.

Yup let's move JT up with Matty and Mitch and go with Bunting, Kerfoot and Nylander as our second line and see how it plays out.

 

[Nooodles]

It's actually a rare footage of Nylander haters from 2018 hugging Nylander today, colorized.

 

[VanW27]

I'd spread out on 3 lines, but yeah, I agree - Nylander plays better with Kerfoot than he does with Matthews/Tavares

Something like:

Bunting - Matthews - Kase
Ritchie - Tavares - Marner
Nylander - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kampf - Simmonds

Give Nylander a couple extra shifts with the top 2 lines throughout the game to boost his minutes up a bit

 

[Notsince67]

I'd spread out on 3 lines, but yeah, I agree - Nylander plays better with Kerfoot than he does with Matthews/Tavares

Something like:

Bunting - Matthews - Kase
Ritchie - Tavares - Marner
Nylander - Kerfoot - Spezza
Engvall - Kampf - Simmonds

Give Nylander a couple extra shifts with the top 2 lines throughout the game to boost his minutes up a bit

Hard no to Ritchie on the first or second line

 

[VanW27]

Hard no to Ritchie on the first or second line

Yeah, I don't love that either. But if you give Nylander a couple of his shifts every game you can keep his minutes down to more of a 3rd liner level.

My hope would be he fits better with Tavares who plays a more low grinding and get it to the net game than Matthews.