William Nylander Discussion Thread

[Peasy]

Even on his off games he's still easily the best puck mover on the team.

And yet he's never given the opportunity for zone entries whenever he's on pp1. Kinda weird never using your best zone entry player for zone entries on the pp.

 

[rumman]

Sorry I just meant to show he is no different than 96% of the rest so why anyone wants to harp on it is beyond me.

Nylander get flack because of his "aloof" attitude, and yes he's certainly not the only player on the Leafs with this problem, but after all this is a Nylander thread seems like the appropriate place to discuss his game, or lack thereof............

 

[Confucius]

Nylander get flack because of his "aloof" attitude, and yes he's certainly not the only player on the Leafs with this problem, but after all this is a Nylander thread seems like the appropriate place to discuss his game, or lack thereof............

Fine my two cents was added his effort or lack thereof is no different than anyone else.

 

[justloveleafs]

Pretty sure, he will be nothing but enthusiastic, but I have to remember the next time I talk to Borje, ask him what he thinks of Nylander.

But Swedes and Australians stick up for each other more than anyone else I have encountered.

I lived in florida with three Aussies and I uttered a negative comment about Aussie chicks.

Woof, being pounded by three guys at once ensued. I wish the Leafs had a few Aussies on the team lol.

 

[stickty111]

I'd agree but then a Nylanderthal or two would label me a Nylander hater. LOL. Wonder if the ghost of William Nylander shows up in the playoffs.

Nicknames don't help your point. In fact it makes it worse. Usually indicates biases.

 

[stickty111]

Why he is not getting PP1 usage is beyond me. Easily 90 point potential in the right set up, maybe 100 points in a career year. Wasting his talent. Dude is a monster in the zone on possession.

90 is pushing it but PPG is very possible. Nylander is usually consistently engaged and ever since Keefe came on, one of our harder workers, and that has raised his ceiling.

 

[frizzer1]

If you saw Nylander play for the first time last nite, you would see a great skater ,great edges, great stickhandler and excellent shot.
He looks like a guy who could be among the league’s scoring leaders.
That’s what’s so frustrating about him....all those tools and what you get is a 60 point player.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If you saw Nylander play for the first time last nite, you would see a great skater ,great edges, great stickhandler and excellent shot.
He looks like a guy who could be among the league’s scoring leaders.
That’s what’s so frustrating about him....all those tools and what you get is a 60 point player.

How many scoring leaders get 16 minutes with 2nd PP unit time?

 

[MarMarSab3]

The misuse of Nylander since his arrival has always left me confused.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How many scoring leaders get 16 minutes with 2nd PP unit time?

I would definitely tolerate his on/off mentality much easier if he was on the first PP scoring more and improving it. I kind of have a mid ground understanding on his usage in that it relates to his on/off level of effort from game to game. Thing is when you see the flying Willy and the off Willy the contrast is really striking on the positive and negative. The gap is stark and really noticeable. That’s why posters turn on him. It frustrates fans.

If he was a Goalie he would have .500 win % with shutouts in every win ha. Keefe needs to wake up and put him on the first PP absolutely. It B.S he’s not on it.

 

[frizzer1]

How many scoring leaders get 16 minutes with 2nd PP unit time?

Are you suggesting that his production matches his level of talent?

 

[Antropovsky]

If you saw Nylander play for the first time last nite, you would see a great skater ,great edges, great stickhandler and excellent shot.
He looks like a guy who could be among the league’s scoring leaders.
That’s what’s so frustrating about him....all those tools and what you get is a 60 point player.

Like to see him at center personally

 

[Martin Skoula]

I would definitely tolerate his on/off mentality much easier if he was on the first PP scoring more and improving it. I kind of have a mid ground understanding on his usage in that it relates to his on/off level of effort from game to game. Thing is when you see the flying Willy and the off Willy the contrast is really striking on the positive and negative. The gap is stark and highly noticeable. That’s why posters turn on him. It frustrates fans.

If he was a Goalie he would have .500 win % with shutouts in every win ha. Keefe needs to wake up and put him on the first PP absolutely. It B.S he’s not on it.

He has a baseline game that is present no matter if he's on or not, that game is still helpful to us even though it's not as helpful as when he's on. His off games, he's a lot less puck dominant in the offensive zone, but he still does the best job of anyone on our team of actually getting the puck to the offensive zone. His skating, hands, and IQ don't disappear even if the killer instinct does. His bad games are still better than someone like Johnsson's absolute best peak performance, you're at worst getting an above-average middle-6 winger on any given night. That's an ok trade-off for me when 75% of the time you're getting someone between a top-10 2nd line RW and an all-star level RW. If he didn't have off-games he'd be making 10+.

Are you suggesting that his production matches his level of talent?

I'm not sure how to even answer this non-point. If you play Gretzky 1 shift a game, are you going to complain that it must be his work ethic causing the gap between his talent and his production level?

 

[Menzinger]

Are you suggesting that his production matches his level of talent?

More so his production is in line (or dare I say constrained) with his given opportunities. Guys who score more than him tend to get more opportunities (higher toi, 1st unit pp) to use their talents.

 

[socko]

If they keep Willy as the net front guy on the PP, I think our PP would improve. He's better at it than Tavares or Simmonds. And Tavares is a far better shooter from distance than Nylander.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He has a baseline game that is present no matter if he's on or not, that game is still helpful to us even though it's not as helpful as when he's on. His off games, he's a lot less puck dominant in the offensive zone, but he still does the best job of anyone on our team of actually getting the puck to the offensive zone. His skating, hands, and IQ don't disappear even if the killer instinct does. His bad games are still better than someone like Johnsson's absolute best peak performance, you're at worst getting an above-average middle-6 winger on any given night. That's an ok trade-off for me when 75% of the time you're getting someone between a top-10 2nd line RW and an all-star level RW. If he didn't have off-games he'd be making 10+.



I'm not sure how to even answer this non-point. If you play Gretzky 1 shift a game, are you going to complain that it must be his work ethic causing the gap between his talent and his production level?

Yeah i watched him long enough to know what he’s doing well when he’s doing it.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Like to see him at center personally

Me too. I’ve mentioned it a few times. Posters seem hot and cold to it. I would love him 3rd line center. He’d be a better player and make us a better team

 

[Jojalu]

Nylander get flack because of his "aloof" attitude, and yes he's certainly not the only player on the Leafs with this problem, but after all this is a Nylander thread seems like the appropriate place to discuss his game, or lack thereof............

I will share this..

I work with elite athletes from 15u right to pros. One thing that has happened over the past 10-15 years is that youth sports has shifted from competition to a showcase mentality.

We train athletes now to be skill specific and parade them to showcases. Kids know how to work hard, and polish their skills but for the most part don't understand what it takes to compete.

When you are super elite, it is difficult to teach because they are so much better than everyone and work on only things that will get them to the next level.

At least with hockey there is the CHL, but even then it depends on who you are drafted by and whether or not they are rebuilding or are a playoff team.

It is definately something we have seen become more and more of an issue.

 

[Walshy7]

Pretty sure, he will be nothing but enthusiastic, but I have to remember the next time I talk to Borje, ask him what he thinks of Nylander.

But Swedes and Australians stick up for each other more than anyone else I have encountered.

I lived in florida with three Aussies and I uttered a negative comment about Aussie chicks.

Woof, being pounded by three guys at once ensued. I wish the Leafs had a few Aussies on the team lol.

Aussie chicks are the worst, that’s why I left and married a Canadian.

there has only been one Aussie ever to play in the nhl and he sucks

 

[Apotheosis]

90 is pushing it but PPG is very possible. Nylander is usually consistently engaged and ever since Keefe came on, one of our harder workers, and that has raised his ceiling.

I see the talent for 90. He isn't getting PP time on PP1 and his opportunities have been up and down. Does not help that JT started off the season on a very average pace.

 

[Havoc]

Warning: Random Nylander rant. Skip if you don't like him.

Check a Vegas game if you ever get some free time in the evening and the boys aren't playing.

Nylander easily puts up 90 there. Those guys like to move the puck around and then generate shots that actually get through. They keep it simple and smart. Nylander would absolutely tear it up with his zone entry, edge work and ability to spin off guys and keep the play moving. He'd be a dream for Vegas honestly. Most likely PP1 him. It's an absolute joke Thornton and Simmonds pushed Will to PP2 for 95% of the season.

Also not sure if people notice, when Nylander gives the puck up in the o-zone, he gives it up in a way his team mates can still come in and fight for it. When Tavares is on, he's usually right there to scoop it up. We saw this a lot last season. When those two were along the boards together it was rare to NOT see Tavares come away with it. Those dudes in Vegas would be all over it.

No surprise then, Nylander "looking" better is a side effect of Tavares finally playing well in the o-zone. I put looking in quotes because even on Nylander's bad days, he's still doing the things that is helping him and JT rack up some points right now. Nylander is not a one man show like McDavid, Mackinnon, Matthews etc. But hockey is about structured play and playing as a unit where everyone brings their individual strengths and it accumulates into a team that is hard to beat. That's where Nylander excels and teams will line up for him if he is ever made available. He's a specialist at what he does. Especially teams like Vegas who probably already have him written down (due to the constant Nylander trade garbage talks) as a guy who can take their style of offence to another level.

I feel to this day, minus when we had Hyman-Matthews-Nylander (which was top 5 in the league at even strength in case people forgot) Nylander either gets poor usage or (recently) has under performing line mates. Last season Tavares' thumb ruined Nylander's assists when he shot up the goal scoring ranks (yet was still pacing 90ish points after December) and this season Tavares was just pretty bad overall offensively and ruined any chance Nylander had of being a point per game player (along with Keefe taking PP away from him).

The best is yet to come with Bill. That's why I bring up a team like Vegas because if you can picture how Nylanders game slots in there, you would never risk losing him. And a theme in this thread sometimes is that Nylander is expendable.

 

[ruaware41]

More so his production is in line (or dare I say constrained) with his given opportunities. Guys who score more than him tend to get more opportunities (higher toi, 1st unit pp) to use their talents.

On the other hand many 2nd line players who get similar minutes as Willy probably also often out up 60 on the year.

yet we don’t rate them at the level of the top players. It’s a classic case of do you produce less because you get less minutes or are you getting less minutes because you produce less/aren’t as good. And the answer is only Willy knows. We know what he can do. At some point Willy has to speak for himself and let his work do the talking instead of us having oppression Olympic battles about his minutes. He’s dug himself this hole and it’s on him to play very hard every game and extraordinary play to start getting the minutes of M+M

 

[Confucius]

On the other hand many 2nd line players who get similar minutes as Willy probably also often out up 60 on the year.

yet we don’t rate them at the level of the top players. It’s a classic case of do you produce less because you get less minutes or are you getting less minutes because you produce less/aren’t as good. And the answer is only Willy knows. We know what he can do. At some point Willy has to speak for himself and let his work do the talking instead of us having oppression Olympic battles about his minutes. He’s dug himself this hole and it’s on him to play very hard every game and extraordinary play to start getting the minutes of M+M

Well lets just rate him against all right wingers in the league, 1st liners 2nd liners 3rd liners 4th liners. Look at that only 12 right wingers in the entire league with more points and Marner is one of them.

 

[zeke]

Since Keefe:

Nylander: 87gms, 17:29, 35gls/72pts pace

#101 in TOI/gm
#97 in PP TOI/gm
#22 in goals
#38 in points
#18 in goals/gm
#41 in goals/gm

Stud 1st line production despite getting only 2nd line TOI.

On 90% of the teams in the NHL he'd be getting legit 1st line ice time, of course, with a commensurate boost in production.


And he does this while being an all-around player, controlling 56.1% of expected goals when he's on the ice, +2.4 relative to his team.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I will share this..

I work with elite athletes from 15u right to pros. One thing that has happened over the past 10-15 years is that youth sports has shifted from competition to a showcase mentality.

We train athletes now to be skill specific and parade them to showcases. Kids know how to work hard, and polish their skills but for the most part don't understand what it takes to compete.

When you are super elite, it is difficult to teach because they are so much better than everyone and work on only things that will get them to the next level.

At least with hockey there is the CHL, but even then it depends on who you are drafted by and whether or not they are rebuilding or are a playoff team.

It is definately something we have seen become more and more of an issue.

Showboats. They have been around forever but it’s interesting to know your perspective here. Really interesting. So who or what is socially engineering them to be like that in a larger number, well a much larger number than before... i wonder. I don’t like showboats much in sports actually.
Certain times i do but don’t go overboard i guess. We used to hate cherry-picking players that only wanted to score. There was lots of them. I wasn’t much a hockey player but i was out there to pick off the cherry pickers. They weren’t even liked on their own teams ha.

It’s been around a long time anyways. I’m not sure i like putting tags on younger people. I just don’t like it and think there is a system issue going on. Maybe? I don’t know but i have faith in yutes