Will Parise and Clarkson be booed at the Rock?

[Cowbell232]

Parise's shortcomings during our SCF run are over-stated - and rightfully so considering how he left afterward.

However, in addition to what Kyle has said above, he was also the captain. There's something to be said for that as well.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

2nd on the team in scoring
T-1st on the team in goals
Played just under 21 minutes per game (2nd most on the team)

Uhhhhhhhh

Again, more then half his goals were empty nets and playing over 21 minutes doesn't mean anything if you can't elevate your game when the team needs it the most.

Kovy did, despite being almost crippled.

 

[Cowbell232]

I'm not underminding what he did, but let's not act like he took the bulls by the horn (Kovy did BTW) and carried this team to the finals.

If he wasn't there, someone else would've probably did the same. He scored a clutch goal and that's about it. Heck, even Volchenkov scored a key goal but that doesn't change the fact that he sucks royal balls.

My point was that moving Parise wouldn't of killed our hopes to reach the finals or make the playoffs and we would've gotten a King's ransom for his services if Lou would've moved him the same summer he inked that one year deal.

That's how I honestly feel about the matter, that's all.

We would have gotten something similar to what Atlanta got for Kovy - that's the ONLY comparable that exists.

I'd rather have the SCF run 101 times out of 100.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

We would have gotten something similar to what Atlanta got for Kovy - that's the ONLY comparable that exists.

I'd rather have the SCF run 101 times out of 100.

Absolutely not and to think so is basically putting Lou on the same level as Don Waddell and that almost warrants a infraction right there

Kovy was a one dimensional forward that declined a 100M$ contract from the Thrashers around the deadline, wich saw him hit the market 2 months after. Parise was resigned to a entire year, is a workhorse in all 3 zones but can't elevate his game in clutch situations.

The comparision is way, way off.

 

[Cowbell232]

Absolutely not and to think so is basically putting Lou on the same level as Don Waddell and that almost warrants a infraction right there

Kovy was a one dimensional forward that declined a 100M$ contract from the Thrashers. Parise was resigned to a entire year, is a workhorse in all 3 zones but can't elevate his game in clutch situations.

The comparision is way, way off.

No, it's not. The amount of traded elite-level upcoming UFAs is virtually 0. Especially in the prime years of their careers.

If you know they intend to go UFA - which by trading you are admitting that - you get nothing out of the team you are sending them too because they might not stay.

As players they are very different, sure. But as assets? They're comparable.

 

[Burner Account]

Again, more then half his goals were empty nets and playing over 21 minutes doesn't mean anything if you can't elevate your game when the team needs it the most.

Kovy did, despite being almost crippled.

I'm not a math major, but I don't think 2 of 8 is "more than half".

Playing 21 minutes per game - the second most on your team, including defensemen - means everything when your team makes it to the Stanley Cup Final. If you are still getting more icetime than everyone else by the fourth round, it means you're doing something right, and that your coach believes that you being on the ice as much as possible gives your team the best chance of winning. The team made it to the Final with Parise playing more than most guys each night. How does that not make him a key to the run?

You're being silly.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

I'm not a math major, but I don't think 2 of 8 is "more than half".

Playing 21 minutes per game - the second most on your team, including defensemen - means everything when your team makes it to the Stanley Cup Final. If you are still getting more icetime than everyone else by the fourth round, it means you're doing something right, and that your coach believes that you being on the ice as much as possible gives your team the best chance of winning.

You're being silly.

Parise is a motor that never dies and I never said otherwise... but he's not a "go-to-guy" you can rely on if you want to lift Lord Stanley. We had him as our top player for years and he could never pull it together and carry us past the 1st round and that was the major knock on Zach. There was other variables as well but you look towards your top dog to carry you threw thick and thin.

He would be invisible against stronger, tougher opponents cause he was real easy to contain when the game was played much tighter.

I'm not saying he was on the same level as Brian Gionta but I do think we would've went as far in the postseason, with a lesser player to replace Zach and more assets to build towards the future.

 

[Burner Account]

Parise is a motor that never dies and I never said otherwise... but he's not a "go-to-guy" you can rely on if you want to lift Lord Stanley. We had him as our top player for years and he could never pull it together and carry us past the 1st round and that was the major knock on Zach.

He would be invisible against stronger, tougher opponents wich made him real easy to contain when the game was played much tighter.

I'm not saying he was on the same level as Brian Gionta but I do think we would've went as far in the postseason, with a lesser player to replace Zach and more assets to build towards the future.

How did he not carry us past the first round? He was our second leading scorer and leading goalscorer. And played more than everyone on the team except for one guy. Personally, I think Parise is overrated, but suggesting that he wasn't instrumental to that cup run is silly.

I don't think that 6th-seeded team would have gone as far as it did without its captain and one of its top scorers.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I miss Zach.

Will be nice to watch him live.

 

[Cowbell232]

Not to mention, if Parise is traded, the 'lesser' player in his place can't handle that workload and maybe someone gets injured or something like that in trying to take on the extra shifts?

Also, it changes the defensive pairings sent out against the Devils and probably leads to a completely different look for each game.

Why can't you ever admit there are different ways of looking at things DATW? Seriously, this is crazy.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Not to mention, if Parise is traded, the 'lesser' player in his place can't handle that workload and maybe someone gets injured or something like that in trying to take on the extra shifts?

Also, it changes the defensive pairings sent out against the Devils and probably leads to a completely different look for each game.

Why can't you ever admit there are different ways of looking at things DATW? Seriously, this is crazy.

Why can't I ever admit there are diffrerent ways of looking at things? Seriously? This coming from the poster who isn't agreeing with me but keeps on posting why I'm the one in left field?

Pretty ironic, don't you think?

You and whoever else might think Parise was a key figure in our cup run is a fair point cause that's what you truly believe and that's fair... I just don't see it the same way, that's all.

I just don't know why certain posters feel the need to be on the same page about everything and if you go against the grain, you're not looking at the POV that the mass is throwing your way.

You have your POV, wich is perfectly fine with me... and I have mine. I guess I just like to defend my point a little harder then others, that's all.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Not to mention, if Parise is traded, the 'lesser' player in his place can't handle that workload and maybe someone gets injured or something like that in trying to take on the extra shifts?

Also, it changes the defensive pairings sent out against the Devils and probably leads to a completely different look for each game.

Why can't you ever admit there are different ways of looking at things DATW? Seriously, this is crazy.

You shouldn't even humor that argument. We all hate how he left but man - very unlikely that even if we trade him for someone else we make it to the SCF.

We had a very rare breed of player who was perfect for the Devils and our system. Probably the best shoot out player I've seen wear the uniform. We would have won 5 or 6 more games with his shoot out ability alone last year.

 

[PWiz30]

A lot of assumptions there. But since you said clearly, I have to believe you.

Where did I say anything controversial? There were numerous articles/posts about how he didn't leave for more money at the time so it's not like Lou wasn't prepared to pay up. If wasn't about the money then there were other factors which meant there was no way Lou would be able to re sign him. Unless Zach is really dumb he would have known this early in the process and the decent thing to do would be to let his long time employer who gave him the opportunity to play in the NHL know that he wasn't coming back. If he had done this, then Lou would have begun looking elsewhere in the free agent market while there were still quality unsigned free agents. You're right, there are assumptions there but given the fact that are available and a little bit of basic logic, they are safe assumptions.

 

[NJDevs26]

* Darcy Regehr said that he has no intention to lose two of his best players, who are also UFA, in Vanek and Miller... so he's basically gathering all the offers that will be thrown his way and go with the best one that will help rebuild his franchise.

You don't understand the difference between a team in obvious rebuild mode (Buffalo) and one that's in the playoffs most years and looking to contend every year (NJ)?

And fwiw maybe the playoff run turns out the same with Zach, and maybe it doesn't. But you can't gloss over the regular season with Zach's 30+ goals, 70+ points, a bunch of SO goals and say he wasn't important to our season. They certainly don't finish with 100 points without him, maybe don't even make the playoffs - or squeeze in and get bounced early.

You also don't understand that teams will take a short-term hit no matter how many futures you get back, and your team may not be good when the futures help. The Pens' pieces for Jordan Staal didn't help them in the playoffs last year.

Plus Elias signed a one-year deal in '06, he wasn't gone.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

You don't understand the difference between a team in obvious rebuild mode (Buffalo) and one that's in the playoffs most years and looking to contend every year (NJ)?

And fwiw maybe the playoff run turns out the same with Zach, and maybe it doesn't. But you can't gloss over the regular season with Zach's 30+ goals, 70+ points, a bunch of SO goals and say he wasn't important to our season. They certainly don't finish with 100 points without him, maybe don't even make the playoffs - or squeeze in and get bounced early.

You also don't understand that teams will take a short-term hit no matter how many futures you get back, and your team may not be good when the futures help. The Pens' pieces for Jordan Staal didn't help them in the playoffs last year.

Plus Elias signed a one-year deal in '06, he wasn't gone.

Rebuild or no rebuild, losing your best player for free will eventually bite you in the ass, unless you have the proper depth to replace that void... wich we didn't last year and saw us finish 3rd last in goals scored.

Am I saying that the pieces we would've gotten back would've made the difference, absolutely not, but they could've helped us in a potential trade for immediate help... just like the move Lou made for Schneider. The Bruins parted ways with Phil Kessel for a couple of picks, wich turned out to be Seguin and Hamilton. Seguin got moved and now the B's are going to ice one of the most underated players in the league in Eriksson on a already stacked and deep roster.

With the lack of depth we had in our pipeline, we had to know that if we didn't bring in anyone from the outside, we were going to have to rely on Kovalchuk like the Thrashers used to rely on him. He went down and our entire offense went down with him.

We've had several 100+ point seasons that saw us get knocked out in the 1st round for like 3 or 4 years straight, that to me doesn't mean a thing. The Kings won the cup and made the postseason by the skin of their teeth.

When making this type of move, you can't look at it 12 months later cause trying to replace a top line forward won't give you the results you're looking for today, but I'm pretty certain that Shero can build a better team around the guys he has today, compared to if he would've let Jordan walk for free last summer.

To me, it's like playing the lottery with one shot to win out of 29. Odds aren't stacked in your favour but if you can make a nice run and still manage to salvage something for a piece you know you'll end up losing, it's a win-win scenario now and down the road as well.

 

[Burner Account]

The Thrashers traded their best player and captain, who was a pending UFA.

Ask them how that worked out.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

The Thrashers traded their best player and captain, who was a pending UFA.

Ask them how that worked out.

The Thrasers had one of the dumbest Gm's to run their team straight out of town. Again, comparing a HOF in Lou Lamoriello and Don "what did I achieve at the NHL level" Waddell is comparing Megan Fox to...

 

[Burner Account]

The Thrasers had one of the dumbest Gm's to run their team straight out of town. Again, comparing a HOF in Lou Lamoriello and Don "what did I achieve at the NHL level" Waddell is comparing Megan Fox to...

Who said anything about the history of the GMs? You really can't compare the GMs. I'm comparing the situations

Waddell did the dumb thing - which you are suggesting you would rather do - by trading his best player and captain.

Lou did the smart thing, and held onto Parise. Even if it meant losing him for nothing. Because that is what gave his team the best chance to win. And his faith was rewarded with a trip to the Stanley Cup Final.

 

[MartyOwns]

seriously?

um, how about the goal against Quick in game 5?

come on man. I know what youre trying to say but its just silly. Parise was a key piece in our playoff run.

parise's biggest accomplishment was drawing defensemen away from his linemates. not exactly a pivotal role, but i guess you could argue that we wouldnt have gotten as far without him.

we didnt get to the SCF by having a phenomenal roster- and that includes have parise. we got there by hard work and a ****-ton of luck. so, i think the argument could be made both ways

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

This isn't a video game. If Lou trades Parise and the Devils don't make a Cup run we likely don't sell out nearly every home game and we likely finish near the bottom in attendance.

Oh and if we don't make that Cup run we likely don't pull in UFAs this year, who have all mentioned how close we are to resembling that Cup team.

And again - we might seriously be talking relocation if we don't make that Cup run.

Thanks, Zach, for the help.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Who said anything about the history of the GMs? You really can't compare the GMs. I'm comparing the situations

Waddell did the dumb thing - which you are suggesting you would rather do - by trading his best player and captain.

Lou did the smart thing, and held onto Parise. Even if it meant losing him for nothing. Because that is what gave his team the best chance to win. And his faith was rewarded with a trip to the Stanley Cup Final.

... and we missed the playoffs the year after but you won't bring that point up since it goes against your point, but that's cool.

The situation would've been the same if Waddell didn't ask for a turd like return for the player who scored the most goals out of any other player, since joining the league. His scouting was way off on almost every player he acquired and that's how you turn a struggling franchise in a "rough market" into the Winnipeg Jets.

You and I and the entire planet can agree that we were a better team with Parise then without Parise. I'm just saying that sacrificing the future for the present might not always be the perfect solution.

I guess you can say that we traded Parise for Schneider, since we missed the playoffs the same year Zach bolted to Minny, giving us the 9th overall pick, wich we flipped for Cory

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

This isn't a video game. If Lou trades Parise and the Devils don't make a Cup run we likely don't sell out nearly every home game and we likely finish near the bottom in attendance.

Oh and if we don't make that Cup run we likely don't pull in UFAs this year, who have all mentioned how close we are to resembling that Cup team.

And again - we might seriously be talking relocation if we don't make that Cup run.

Thanks, Zach, for the help.

Alot of IF's in that post.

And IF we would've traded Zach to the Av's for Statsny and their 2013 pick, we could've had Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon or Jonathan Drouin.

 

[Burner Account]

... and we missed the playoffs the year after but you won't bring that point up since it goes against your point, but that's cool.

The situation would've been the same if Waddell didn't ask for a turd like return for the player who scored the most goals out of any other player, since joining the league. His scouting was way off on almost every player he acquired and that's how you turn a struggling franchise in a "rough market" into the Winnipeg Jets.

You and I and the entire planet can agree that we were a better team with Parise then without Parise. I'm just saying that sacrificing the future for the present might not always be the perfect solution.

I guess you can say that we traded Parise for Schneider, since we missed the playoffs the same year Zach bolted to Minny, giving us the 9th overall pick, wich we flipped for Cory

I didn't bring up the 2012-13 season because that is where the similarity between the situations ends.

You can argue that Waddell's scouting was equal to Lou's, since Bergfors was a 1st-round pick and Cormier was a 2nd. The Devils were hoping they would pan out when they drafted them, and the Thrashers were hoping they would pan out when they traded for them. You can argue that the two franchises had the same expectations for those players. Oduya was just Oduya.

And by your logic we didn't lose Parise for nothing. So we kept him to make a fairly successful playoff run, and wound up using an asset we had because of our playoff absence, to acquire a #1 goalie. Not bad.

 

[NJDevs26]

It wasn't dumb for Waddell to trade Kovy, they were 50-50 just to make the playoffs nevermind do anything in them. They should rebuild. Especially considering Kovy turned down 100 million plus there.

Playoff teams do not trade their UFA's at the deadline, ever - other than the Sharks last year who made two brilliant deals with expendable pieces. I guarantee they wouldn't have dealt Couture if he was a FA though. I didn't see Boston dealing Nathan Horton either, so lets not act like Lou's the only GM that doesn't trade UFA's off playoff teams.

 

[Oneiro]

As far as booing Clarkson and Parise...When they wore the uniform, they were exemplary NJ Devils. And good human beings too, as far as we know.

Nah.

I'll save my boos for Messier, Lindros-arrogant types.

I'm not really into being a butthurt fan. The NJ Devils way is to move on and make something when everyone else tells them they've got nothing.