Will Marc Andre Fleury Choke Again?

[Joejosh999]

I completely unashamed the criticism

Fleury has one job.. to stop pucks from going into the back of the net, especially during the playoffs.

He hasn't exactly done a great job of that the past 4 years. In fact, statistically he is the worst among all NHL goaltenders at doing that job.

If you can't understand the criticism, well... then I don't know what to say. You might want to get reacquainted with reality.

And think it is mostly unfounded.
You need to watch the game.
MAF is unsuited for the very un-responsible type of D played under Dan Bylsma, just as he was fairly well suited to play under Therrian.


When we kept Bylsma we should have released MAF, or vice versa.
MAF has improved greatly this year, but since Bylsma is still the coach and the D is still a joke, it's anybody's guess if he can stand on his head during the playoffs, because that is what it will take.


You can find statistics to tell you Global Warming doesn't exist.

You are acquainted with your own reality.

 

[Pancakes]

All I'll say is don't be too quick to jump on or off the bandwagon one way or the other. Last year he started the playoffs with a shutout, and we all know how he ended them.

It's going to be a game by game evaluation for Fleury. He's going to have a few bad games in the playoffs even if he's at or close to the top of his game. The question is whether he can rebound from those bad games rather than letting them balloon into him falling completely apart. In the regular season he usually shakes the bad ones off. In the playoffs he often doesn't.

People may forget though that during the cup run he did have some stinkers that playoffs. Game 5 vs Detroit, game 2 vs Carolina we won I think 6-4 and Maf was awful in that one. He gave up a lot of goals in games 1-2 vs the Caps. Yet overall he was there when we needed him to be.

Funny thing is I think that Pens team showed resilience and shook off bad losses a lot better than this one does. That team wouldn't have been phased by going down 0-2 to the Flyers in a playoff series, or by Maf having a laugher. This one is far more fragile for some reason.

 

[Joejosh999]

Totally agree. Pancakes, we are just going to have to eval as we go.

I have a bit of hope this year because MAF seems more stable, so who knows maybe the shrunk they sent him to had so e good effect lol!

But really, the way this team plays D is tough for any G and MAF is more fragile than most.

Fingers crossed.

 

[ArcticFox]

Fleury has one job.. to stop pucks from going into the back of the net, especially during the playoffs.

I repeat myself but: this teams defence is a joke which is not helping at all. Noone gave Miller grief when he was playing behind the Sabres "defence".

With that said Flower lets in some soft as hell goals and just plain starts shaking under pressure and is out of position alot once he starts choking.
But all I want to say is he's also playing in a defensively shoddy system (at best when Bylsma isn't just being outcoached altogether) with the pylons Brooks and Scuds in front of him. He could stand to play for a coach that makes it easier for him.

 

[Joejosh999]

Yup.
Though I think the Soft as Hell goals have not happened for awhile.....he seems much more stable this year.

But as always....the measuring stick will be the playoffs.

I'm rooting for MAF but I know how tough it will be playing behind this D and this coach.

 

[NastyNick]

i thought Vokoun looked real good in net last year. 92+ save percentage too. Have never gotten that from Fleury.

Let me explain why Fleury sucks as a goalie, and why he sucks especially more in the playoffs (when the opponent has time to abuse him)

Fleury cannot play dump-ins. Hes horrible at it. Why is this important? Because it kills the Penguins transition game. And teams like the Flyers exploit the hell out of it.

In fact any opponent who is willing to commit themselves to dumping and chasing will have a huge edge on the Penguins. They'll get the D pinned in, they'll frustrate the forwards who hate playing in their own end, and they'll rest their own D who will be called upon from time to time to exert a lot of energy stopping Crosby + Malkin.

Next time you watch the Pens, watch how bad Fleury is within dump-ins. The few times that he does stop the puck, he will either take too long to pass it to the D (causing them to get pressured and end up pinned in) or he will turn it over himself. This is the exact opposite of what we had with Vokoun in net. Vokoun got the puck to the D quickly and with authority, and the D turned it back up the ice. Vokoun wasn't better at making saves. Hell no. He was terrible going east west. Usually fell down. But he played the puck effectively, and thats all the Pens need.

Its a huge swing in favor of whoever plays the Pens. If the Pens are allowed more time on offense, they can wear teams down with their skill and fill the net. If they are forced to play in their own end, their D get tired, they get sloppy, and eventually they will lose.

On top of that, Fleury has a habit of letting in some awful goals - especially from shots from behind the crease. He really has anxiety issues or vision issues in those corners.

 

[hamzahirani]

Maybe, for the last 3 years or so, fleury has played terribly in the playoffs. Hope Vokoun will be healthy by playoff time, cause even zatkoff has no experience

 

[Joejosh999]

Seriously if you think dump ins are the major problem for MAF I've no response.
Do you understand how the rule change and then"trapezoid" affected all that ?
Never mind.

 

[66-30-33]

i thought Vokoun looked real good in net last year. 92+ save percentage too. Have never gotten that from Fleury.

Let me explain why Fleury sucks as a goalie, and why he sucks especially more in the playoffs (when the opponent has time to abuse him)

Fleury cannot play dump-ins. Hes horrible at it. Why is this important? Because it kills the Penguins transition game. And teams like the Flyers exploit the hell out of it.

In fact any opponent who is willing to commit themselves to dumping and chasing will have a huge edge on the Penguins. They'll get the D pinned in, they'll frustrate the forwards who hate playing in their own end, and they'll rest their own D who will be called upon from time to time to exert a lot of energy stopping Crosby + Malkin.

Next time you watch the Pens, watch how bad Fleury is within dump-ins. The few times that he does stop the puck, he will either take too long to pass it to the D (causing them to get pressured and end up pinned in) or he will turn it over himself. This is the exact opposite of what we had with Vokoun in net. Vokoun got the puck to the D quickly and with authority, and the D turned it back up the ice. Vokoun wasn't better at making saves. Hell no. He was terrible going east west. Usually fell down. But he played the puck effectively, and thats all the Pens need.

Its a huge swing in favor of whoever plays the Pens. If the Pens are allowed more time on offense, they can wear teams down with their skill and fill the net. If they are forced to play in their own end, their D get tired, they get sloppy, and eventually they will lose.

On top of that, Fleury has a habit of letting in some awful goals - especially from shots from behind the crease. He really has anxiety issues or vision issues in those corners.

Fleury sucked those 2 years in the playoffs because he's never been good against Flyers or islanders. Unless we play Flyers we wont see "that" Fleury against Columbus or Detroit. Some teams just bring out the absolute worst in him.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Fleury sucked those 2 years in the playoffs because he's never been good against Flyers or islanders. Unless we play Flyers we wont see "that" Fleury against Columbus or Detroit. Some teams just bring out the absolute worst in him.

He played the Flyers during the 2nd cup run and didn't seem too bad.

I really think the Flyers bring out to worse in everybody on our team.

I'm a born again believer in Mark Andrew Flanders!

 

[Fogel]

Fleury has been backsliding and getting back to his old ways. Earlier in the season, he was more controlled and set, more mechanically sound. It looks like he is losing that part and reverting to relying on his athleticism and scrambling more. Not as square and sound as he was earlier.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

i thought Vokoun looked real good in net last year. 92+ save percentage too. Have never gotten that from Fleury.

Let me explain why Fleury sucks as a goalie, and why he sucks especially more in the playoffs (when the opponent has time to abuse him)

Fleury cannot play dump-ins. Hes horrible at it. Why is this important? Because it kills the Penguins transition game. And teams like the Flyers exploit the hell out of it.

In fact any opponent who is willing to commit themselves to dumping and chasing will have a huge edge on the Penguins. They'll get the D pinned in, they'll frustrate the forwards who hate playing in their own end, and they'll rest their own D who will be called upon from time to time to exert a lot of energy stopping Crosby + Malkin.

Next time you watch the Pens, watch how bad Fleury is within dump-ins. The few times that he does stop the puck, he will either take too long to pass it to the D (causing them to get pressured and end up pinned in) or he will turn it over himself. This is the exact opposite of what we had with Vokoun in net. Vokoun got the puck to the D quickly and with authority, and the D turned it back up the ice. Vokoun wasn't better at making saves. Hell no. He was terrible going east west. Usually fell down. But he played the puck effectively, and thats all the Pens need.

Jonathan Quick sucks azz at playing the puck too. It might be his only weakness. The key is to not play the puck as often, especially when you know that you are not good at it.

 

[cassius]

I repeat myself but: this teams defence is a joke which is not helping at all. Noone gave Miller grief when he was playing behind the Sabres "defence".

With that said Flower lets in some soft as hell goals and just plain starts shaking under pressure and is out of position alot once he starts choking.
But all I want to say is he's also playing in a defensively shoddy system (at best when Bylsma isn't just being outcoached altogether) with the pylons Brooks and Scuds in front of him. He could stand to play for a coach that makes it easier for him.

I'm sorry.. but I gotta go here since you guys still seem skeptical. You can't blame these softies on a bad defense.

This is just flat out horrendous goaltending.. no other way to put it really.

So there you have it.. most goalies would struggle to have 4 of these gaffes in an 82 game season. Fleury managed to pull this off in a series of 5 playoff games. Thats just flat out impressive.

You literally have to be *insane* to think the defense is the problem because it isn't. That is just horrible, horrible, goaltending at the most crucial stretch of the season no less.

 

[TheSniper26]

I'm sorry.. but I gotta go here since you guys still seem skeptical. You can't blame these softies on a bad defense.

This is just flat out horrendous goaltending.. no other way to put it really.

So there you have it.. most goalies would struggle to have 4 of these gaffes in an 82 game season. Fleury managed to pull this off in a series of 5 playoff games. Thats just flat out impressive.

You literally have to be *insane* to think the defense is the problem because it isn't. That is just horrible, horrible, goaltending at the most crucial stretch of the season no less.

Yeah the "bad defense" excuse would probably be more valid if we hadn't seen backups come in and play as well or, in Vokoun's case, much better than Fleury behind the exact same defense.

The guy just over-thinks and tries to do way too much on every shot when the pressure gets ratcheted up. I'm still rooting for him to turn things around but, after the last 4 postseasons, I have no idea how he still has defenders/apologists at this point.

 

[penguins2946*]

Fleury's main problem, which someone said above, is his inconsistency in playing a simple and composed game. I don't give a crap of he stopped it, Fleury should not be making saves like the Alfy shootout save. Fleury's skill and athleticism is top-5 in the league, easily. However, his fragile mental game a and his refusal to play a simple and composed game kills him. It almost seems like he cares more about being flashy and having fun than stopping the puck. That it he's just incredibly stupid and doesn't understand how to play technically sound.

Btw, I've hated Fleury stylistically since that Briere goal in the 2012 playoffs. What he did there is what is do if I was at sticktime screwing around, not in a freaking playoff game. That's an easy save if he doesn't try that flying poke-check garbage. I honestly think that if that goal would have been stopped, the Pens would have beaten the Flyers in that series. That was the turning point where the Flyers took over.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

I have no idea how he still has defenders/apologists at this point.

I don't think anyone can really defend what he's done in the the past four playoffs, particularly the last 2.

He is very skilled, but is also a head case. I personally think that it is still not too late to start to reverse his playoff stigma, but it has to start during these playoffs.

As for the likelihood, I wouldn't go any further than cautiously optimistic.

I would rather see someone in house become a very solid goalie, with tenure, rather than play the FA carousel - if possible. We are not ever going to get Miller, Halak, Hiller, etc. through FA, IMO.

 

[Fire Shero*]

I'm shocked that 45% think he won't choke... good lord, what does this idiot have to do at this point to show he is a disaster in the playoffs?

 

[penguins2946*]

I'm shocked that 45% think he won't choke... good lord, what does this idiot have to do at this point to show he is a disaster in the playoffs?

In order for him to choke, he has to be expected to put up good numbers and then fall on his face. A lot of people expect him to just fall flat on his face. That's not choking, that's expected.

A better poll would be "will Fleury suck again?", which has much less grey area.

 

[Al Smith]

I'm sorry.. but I gotta go here since you guys still seem skeptical. You can't blame these softies on a bad defense.

This is just flat out horrendous goaltending.. no other way to put it really.

So there you have it.. most goalies would struggle to have 4 of these gaffes in an 82 game season. Fleury managed to pull this off in a series of 5 playoff games. Thats just flat out impressive.

You literally have to be *insane* to think the defense is the problem because it isn't. That is just horrible, horrible, goaltending at the most crucial stretch of the season no less.

Wow - that was only slightly worse than reliving my college P. Chem. final. Perhaps this year won't be as bad, but to overcome the last several years of incompetence, MAF would need a rock-solid D in front of him and that's not happening.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

And think it is mostly unfounded.
You need to watch the game.
MAF is unsuited for the very un-responsible type of D played under Dan Bylsma, just as he was fairly well suited to play under Therrian.


When we kept Bylsma we should have released MAF, or vice versa.
MAF has improved greatly this year, but since Bylsma is still the coach and the D is still a joke, it's anybody's guess if he can stand on his head during the playoffs, because that is what it will take.


You can find statistics to tell you Global Warming doesn't exist.

You are acquainted with your own reality.

Come on, you can do better than that. We can talk hockey without having to drag politics into it.

 

[PensPlz]

I'm sorry.. but I gotta go here since you guys still seem skeptical. You can't blame these softies on a bad defense.

This is just flat out horrendous goaltending.. no other way to put it really.


So there you have it.. most goalies would struggle to have 4 of these gaffes in an 82 game season. Fleury managed to pull this off in a series of 5 playoff games. Thats just flat out impressive.

You literally have to be *insane* to think the defense is the problem because it isn't. That is just horrible, horrible, goaltending at the most crucial stretch of the season no less.

Do you have 3 goals our own defense put in the net against the Red Wings a couple weeks ago? Scuds had two of them. Or any number of the goals against were scored #4 #44 and #27 were all on the ice at the same time? Let's put all of those on MAF, too.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Playoff Fleury has transcended the defense. Any shot on net is dangerous and the puck being near the net is dangerous, the defense can't stop that from happening. At the end of the day the goalie has to stop the puck at some point, Fleury can't be trusted to do that. The defense has issues, Fleury has more and the defense can't be held responsible for every time he Fleurys. I'm not going to say that the team and the system haven't contributed to him getting to where he is, but the level of horribleness he's reached is all him. The damn system doesn't make him do the **** he does. It's also not like he doesn't have a history of mental weakness prior to his NHL career.

You also have to look at how the team must see him, I doubt he's trusted. The team settled down once it was shown that Vokoun was capable of stopping the puck with any consistency, it's potentially a dangerous cycle. This never should have been allowed to reach this point, the shrink should have been forced on him sooner and if it hadn't helped he should have been gone; or just gone by now without the shrink.

 

[66-30-33]

This D would be better if we had a goalie who knew how to handle the puck ala Halak. Get rid of the trapazoid, get Halak, win!

 

[canadianguy77]

I like Fleury as a human, so I'll give him one more post-season before giving up on him entirely. That said, I think he's the worst goalie in the league when it comes to shots from the sides of the net or off the end-boards. Those are literally the easiest shots a goalie has to save. I don't understand why he still gives up those goals. He's pretty money on breakaways though, and has been better this season on cross-creases and odd-mans.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This one is so freaking hilarious because of just how weirdly positioned he is. Every time I see it, I think of those old EA NHL games where the goalies will glitch and face whatever direction the puck is even if it's behind the net.