Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Warden of the North]

Was in the pro-Stamkos corner, but now I'm not so sure. I would rather slow cook the rebuild and not have him here. Cap will become more important when our guys are actually developed, to the point where his cap hit will actually be a detriment.

Heard a good opinion on this recently from Jeff Marek in his podcast

That the reason Edmonton failed with their kids is that they didnt have good players in the 25-30 year range to guide their stars and teach them the NHL game. Yes they had old vets (which are easy to find), but they were missing the key demographic of guys in their prime right now. He thinks that Stamkos can be this guy in Toronto.

 

[JoeyBeans]

Was in the pro-Stamkos corner, but now I'm not so sure. I would rather slow cook the rebuild and not have him here. Cap will become more important when our guys are actually developed, to the point where his cap hit will actually be a detriment.

Hes only 26. But still, I get you.

 

[yakfish]

I'd love to see Stamkos as a Leaf but I don't think he's worth more than 10m. something like 9m for 8 years would be fine with me. He isn't at the same level as a Toews, Crosby, Oveckin or Kane IMO. He seems to me to be more inline with Giroux, Malkin and Getzlaf. If he demands more than 10m he can go elsewhere. I could se a team shelling out big dollars and giving him 11m+

 

[MJ65]

Heard a good opinion on this recently from Jeff Marek in his podcast

That the reason Edmonton failed with their kids is that they didnt have good players in the 25-30 year range to guide their stars and teach them the NHL game. Yes they had old vets (which are easy to find), but they were missing the key demographic of guys in their prime right now. He thinks that Stamkos can be this guy in Toronto.

I don't mind Stamkos but at what price? is he worth $11 plus which he might seek or might even get it?

 

[JoeyBeans]

I don't mind Stamkos but at what price? is he worth $11 plus which he might seek or might even get it?

Maybe hes not going in greedy.. Maybe he is willing to take a little less, to make this rebuild work. After all hes from The Big Smoke.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I don't mind Stamkos but at what price? is he worth $11 plus which he might seek or might even get it?

I'm not a professional scout...but from the Tampa games i've seen this year...no.

He has a great one timer but to me he doesn't look that dangerous every game.

 

[dirk41]

Heard a good opinion on this recently from Jeff Marek in his podcast

That the reason Edmonton failed with their kids is that they didnt have good players in the 25-30 year range to guide their stars and teach them the NHL game. Yes they had old vets (which are easy to find), but they were missing the key demographic of guys in their prime right now. He thinks that Stamkos can be this guy in Toronto.

Edmonton has made a ton of mistakes. You can point to any one and say it was the cause of their ****** record. It's ridiculous.

 

[WillNytheSwedishGuy]

Edmonton has made a ton of mistakes. You can point to any one and say it was the cause of their ****** record. It's ridiculous.

And it would be ideal if the Leafs could try and avoid making each one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Heard a good opinion on this recently from Jeff Marek in his podcast

That the reason Edmonton failed with their kids is that they didnt have good players in the 25-30 year range to guide their stars and teach them the NHL game. Yes they had old vets (which are easy to find), but they were missing the key demographic of guys in their prime right now. He thinks that Stamkos can be this guy in Toronto.

I agree with the premise. I don't think it's a valid reason to take a huge risk with Stamkos though. It would be cheaper to keep Bozak, extend Kadri and maybe JVR. But yeah, Stamkos would definitely have value in this regard as well. With Phaneuf gone, I think we are getting to the point where we shouldn't be trading the very few quality players we have left for futures or the Edmonton scenario is what may await us, and with no McDavid to save us at the end of the line.

It's a complicated situation, I keep changing my mind on it. I guess my opinion these days days is that I'm OK with overpaying him, just not by too much (whatever that means). And I'm not sure where I would draw the line dollar wise. I am happy I don't have to make that decision and I trust the guys who will make it.

 

[Stephen]

I agree with the premise. I don't think it's a valid reason to take a huge risk with Stamkos though. It would be cheaper to keep Bozak, extend Kadri and maybe JVR. But yeah, Stamkos would definitely have value in this regard as well. With Phaneuf gone, I think we are getting to the point where we shouldn't be trading the very few quality players we have left for futures or the Edmonton scenario is what may await us, and with no McDavid to save us at the end of the line.

It's a complicated situation, I keep changing my mind on it. I guess my opinion these days days is that I'm OK with overpaying him, just not by too much (whatever that means). And I'm not sure where I would draw the line dollar wise. I am happy I don't have to make that decision and I trust the guys who will make it.

To me, the conservative, status quo choice doesn't mean there's no risk. You can keep Bozak and re-sign a Kadri or someone for a combined $10 million odd and keep your cap relatively clear, but if it came down to it, is that so much of a better option than to delete both of them and add one Stamkos for that dollar amount?

Signing Stamkos could give the franchise the jump start Curtis Joseph gave us years ago. Maybe he helps some of our kids going earlier, maybe he starts making Toronto a viable destination so the rebuild is actually 'accelerated' but in a good way. Maybe the Leafs continue to bank blue chip prospects while carefully adding quality free agents in 2017 and 2018 and the result is a good combination of young veterans and absolutely impressive kids pushing up from the farm. This looks like what Tim Murray's trying to accomplish in Buffalo.

 

[Ace]

To me, the conservative, status quo choice doesn't mean there's no risk. You can keep Bozak and re-sign a Kadri or someone for a combined $10 million odd and keep your cap relatively clear, but if it came down to it, is that so much of a better option than to delete both of them and add one Stamkos for that dollar amount?

Signing Stamkos could give the franchise the jump start Curtis Joseph gave us years ago. Maybe he helps some of our kids going earlier, maybe he starts making Toronto a viable destination so the rebuild is actually 'accelerated' but in a good way. Maybe the Leafs continue to bank blue chip prospects while carefully adding quality free agents in 2017 and 2018 and the result is a good combination of young veterans and absolutely impressive kids pushing up from the farm. This looks like what Tim Murray's trying to accomplish in Buffalo.

I can tell you from the Buffalo perspective that the RoR factor can't be overstated. It gave Reinhart someone to look up to and learn how to prepare from and it sheltered Eichel into not having to have the whole weight of the world dumped on his shoulders.

If there is one thing about Edmonton that you can really point to its been the utter lack of that. Teens are just drafted, played, and expected to do it. Hell even last year Gionta/Gorges managed to keep the younger guys heads up through the bad season. Babcock has already been instilling that in your team before a lot of the youth that's going to be a part of the team gets there. Similarly, Stamkos in the room when all those kids get there has value beyond his own production.

 

[Faltorvo]

Good luck with that.

If those players are great they will get paid after 3 years. It's the way the league is going. Tarasenko got 8 times 60. Subban did a bridge and now makes nearly 10 per before he reached 7 years. McDavid will get a ton per after 3 years.

If those young players are great they will get paid young or they will sign offer sheets and get paid young somewhere else.

you can't be even remotely serious here.

I was debating someone that was talking about other players on the team wanting 10m contracts.

and the best rebuttal you can pull up is a 7.5m and a 9m ?

might I add you also listed arguably a top 5 D man in the league and top 5 winger in the league, oh and you added that jem nugget of the leagues next generational player also..


so lets add up this fear mongering, we have

Stammer
We develop a generational player
A top 5 D man
A top 5 winger


and folks are worried about the cap?

HA, all I'm worried about, at that point is


the parade route.

 

[Faltorvo]

To me, the conservative, status quo choice doesn't mean there's no risk. You can keep Bozak and re-sign a Kadri or someone for a combined $10 million odd and keep your cap relatively clear, but if it came down to it, is that so much of a better option than to delete both of them and add one Stamkos for that dollar amount?

Signing Stamkos could give the franchise the jump start Curtis Joseph gave us years ago. Maybe he helps some of our kids going earlier, maybe he starts making Toronto a viable destination so the rebuild is actually 'accelerated' but in a good way. Maybe the Leafs continue to bank blue chip prospects while carefully adding quality free agents in 2017 and 2018 and the result is a good combination of young veterans and absolutely impressive kids pushing up from the farm. This looks like what Tim Murray's trying to accomplish in Buffalo.

Stephen, I think there is part of the Stammer debate that is being overlooked.

Stammer gives Marner a mature, bona fide high end sniper to play with and off of.

Skill begets skill , skill can enhance skill.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Is the point of getting Stammer so we finish 9th in the East ?

We are not ready for Stammer.

Management would trade almost every player if they could.
They want to start fresh with their "own players" ... not hand me downs.

He would be bad for the Tank.

 

[Faltorvo]

I can tell you from the Buffalo perspective that the RoR factor can't be overstated. It gave Reinhart someone to look up to and learn how to prepare from and it sheltered Eichel into not having to have the whole weight of the world dumped on his shoulders.

If there is one thing about Edmonton that you can really point to its been the utter lack of that. Teens are just drafted, played, and expected to do it. Hell even last year Gionta/Gorges managed to keep the younger guys heads up through the bad season. Babcock has already been instilling that in your team before a lot of the youth that's going to be a part of the team gets there. Similarly, Stamkos in the room when all those kids get there has value beyond his own production.

This is a very solid post.

I'll pile on a bit here

Stammer is a known gym rat, work out fanatic and we have a coach who embraces the philosophy of "best players need to be your hardest working", I have 0 issue with those two as our leaders and examples of excellence . Basically the complete opposite of fat fill.

Toss in the little nugget that Stammer is a C, a #1C arguably the hardest commodity in the nhl to get (fair argument can be made for #1D),

for me it's a no brainer , we sign Stammer if able , with one saving grace, if Stammer wants to be like Dion and demand a contract that he can never possibly live up to, then I utterly pass.

 

[thewave]

Edmonton has made a ton of mistakes. You can point to any one and say it was the cause of their ****** record. It's ridiculous.

Not having an established star player to bring in the kids is a big mistake. Not having competent D and a G is a big thing as well.

You can't just tank forever and be good. We dumped Dion and we're even worse. What does losing while even playing great do over time?

This team should NOT be looking at any kind of tank next season. The may not make the PO but they can't keep this crap up and expect a confident team.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

if Stammer wants to be like Dion and demand a contract that he can never possibly live up to, then I utterly pass.

what Cap hit is that ?

 

[Faltorvo]

what Cap hit is that ?

Well hammer, contract value is also in the devils details, like nmc s and ntc s , bonus structure , cash tapering and the likes , so for me it's really hard to peg an exact cap number because of those unknown variables but

I'll say this , anything over a 10.5m cap hit and I start to cringe.

 

[thewave]

Well hammer, contract value is also in the devils details, like nmc s and ntc s , bonus structure , cash tapering and the likes , so for me it's really hard to peg an exact cap number because of those unknown variables but

I'll say this , anything over a 10.5m cap hit and I start to cringe.

To be perfectly honest here... 9.5 is not unfair, 10 is sweetened and 10.5 should be seen as a we mean business just get your Jersey ready now because we're not joking around offer.

How many teams have 10.5 space and the talent exclusively cost controlled for the term of his deal? All the other teams pretty much could make room but it bites them in the ass within 3 years.

 

[613Leafer]

I don't mind Stamkos but at what price? is he worth $11 plus which he might seek or might even get it?

11M is really really pushing it IMO. Kopitar, Toews, and Kane have all signed contracts recently under a similar cap ceiling, and are all under that.

Stamkos doesnt remotely have the two-way game of Toews/Kopitar, and as of today no team has won a SC without an elite two-way centre as their top C since 2009. His offence is also starting to come into question, ever since St. Louis left. A guy like Kane seems to still produce big numbers despite not playing with any elite linemates, but can Stamkos do that?

Id sign him at 9.5-10.0. 11M though? Thats a tough one. With all the young talent we have, capspace shouldnt be an issue for years and years, but those final two years, when Stamkos is potentially declining, are when it would get pretty tough.

I would definitely insist on structuring the deal so that it was frontloaded, and so that if we needed to move him in the final few years, that low budget teams could be interested in a guy who's salary might only be ~7M despite a higher caphit.

 

[thewave]

11M is really really pushing it IMO. Kopitar, Toews, and Kane have all signed contracts recently under a similar cap ceiling, and are all under that.

Stamkos doesnt remotely have the two-way game of Toews/Kopitar, and as of today no team has won a SC without an elite two-way centre as their top C since 2009. His offence is also starting to come into question, ever since St. Louis left. A guy like Kane seems to still produce big numbers despite not playing with any elite linemates, but can Stamkos do that?

Id sign him at 9.5-10.0. 11M though? Thats a tough one. With all the young talent we have, capspace shouldnt be an issue for years and years, but those final two years, when Stamkos is potentially declining, are when it would get pretty tough.

I would definitely insist on structuring the deal so that it was frontloaded, and so that if we needed to move him in the final few years, that low budget teams could be interested in a guy who's salary might only be ~7M despite a higher caphit.

Absolutely needs front loaded and any NTC lifted or expanded for year 7. 10.5 is tops.

 

[AppsSyl]

If Stamkos Wins Cup This Year Does It Increase or Decrease Chance of T.O Signing Him?

Just curious about people's thoughts on whether or not, if Stamkos wins the Stanley Cup with Tampa this year, will it increase or decrease his chances of coming to the Leafs in the summer?

 

[thewave]

Well it decreases the chances. Just like if they miss the PO it increases the chances. If they are out in the 1st round he has to think the team is regressing and may walk as well.

Sometimes that one shot at it is all you get with a program. See Vancouver. Now TB has all sorts of cap issues to sort out.

 

[Popcorn]

Stamkos will not win the cup this year and thats the reality of it.

 

[AppsSyl]

I wonder if winning a ring though would make him more comfortable joining the Leafs in a rebuild, because he now has a ring, which for most players is the goal. But in Toronto he could then focus on winning "the Ring," that every hometown boy dreams of growing up.