Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Doc300c]

I think we should both accept that neither one of us will change our mind on this. My stance is if we land Matthews, forget about Stamkos. We're set at centre in the event we land Matthews and have Nylander in waiting. You think differently and that's okay.

The beauty of this is we might have a 15% chance to land Matthews or something along those lines. So ultimately I wouldn't worry too much about the possibility of landing both. Just wouldn't bother with Stamkos if lottery goes our way.

I wouldn't go above 9-9.5 to land Stamkos either. People are just attaching a value to him based upon his name.

I've watched a LOT of Lightning games this season, because I actually consider Stamkos as a potential future investment. He isn't a 10+ million player though.

His passing/vision/puck handling isn't as good as you'd expect from a player of his caliber. He looks unengaged some nights and playing not to get hurt. I don't see the intensity. I don't know if he's just trying to save himself for the playoffs or just doesn't want to get injured before signing a new contract, but Stamkos isn't what the majority of this board thinks.

He isn't taking over games or winning them singlehandedly for the Lightning. He isn't Kane, Crosby, Ovechkin etc etc and he doesn't provide enough defensively to make up for the offense like Toews-Kopitar.

This board will quickly turn on him if he plays like he has this season in a Leafs uniform.

I'm sure playing in a position you don't want to play, on the 2nd or 3rd line for a coach you don't agree with, in a system that doesn't suit your style, for a team that hasn't tried to resign you, has traded away your mentor out of spite, and isn't where you want to play is hard to swallow.

 

[Stephen]

Marner and Nylander may just be superior prospects to Drouin, who was projected to be a St. Louis replacement.

 

[zeke]

If Stamkos isn't going to be playing C he wont be a Leaf.

I doubt that's true.

More true is that if Stamkos makes any demands as to his usage, he'll never be a leaf under shanny/lou/babcock.

Nylander and Marner would be a bad line because they will both want them puck constantly. Same with Kadri

I think you would need each of those 3 on a different line.

That's why I was suggesting Kadri as an awesome 3rd line C behind Stamkos and Matthews/Nylander.

all the best lines have multiple puck dominators. that's what makes them the best lines.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm sure playing in a position you don't want to play, on the 2nd or 3rd line for a coach you don't agree with, in a system that doesn't suit your style, for a team that hasn't tried to resign you, has traded away your mentor out of spite, and isn't where you want to play is hard to swallow.

Stamkos has been 1st or 2nd line all year, mostly 1st though with the injuries Johnson has dealt with. Sometimes he's been shifted to wing though.

I ask this though, Nylander said directly to Babcock and management (before Lou was hired) that he wanted to play centre, and they have accommodated him by developing him as one thus far. This is a guy we've drafted and put 2 years into. Outside of Stamkos having pedigree in the NHL (and granted he has quite a bit) we're kind of screwing over the kid we've drafted and purposely held back in the AHL and going to stick him on wing now? Same situation, just one is obviously less established in the league, but you could see where Nylander could become bitter- and I'm sure most people on this board won't care but I see it as a similar situation.

 

[Menzinger]

Regarding Stamkos' production

I do think his best days are behind him - he's likely more of a 70-80 point guy than an 80-90 point guy from now on: however, you can likely also explain his dip in production due to him having lesser linemates. If one of amarner or Nylander develop into a player of near St. Louis's caliber - his production will go up.

 

[Faltorvo]

Stamkos has been 1st or 2nd line all year, mostly 1st though with the injuries Johnson has dealt with. Sometimes he's been shifted to wing though.

I ask this though, Nylander said directly to Babcock and management (before Lou was hired) that he wanted to play centre, and they have accommodated him by developing him as one thus far. This is a guy we've drafted and put 2 years into. Outside of Stamkos having pedigree in the NHL (and granted he has quite a bit) we're kind of screwing over the kid we've drafted and purposely held back in the AHL and going to stick him on wing now? Same situation, just one is obviously less established in the league, but you could see where Nylander could become bitter- and I'm sure most people on this board won't care but I see it as a similar situation.

Do you honestly think Willi would be bitter if he ended up being a 1rst line winger to Stammer and the chemistry is working well?

I mean lets face it, that's about how he would end up there full time.

If no chemistry then there are other options on where to play Nylander.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Regarding Stamkos' production

I do think his best days are behind him - he's likely more of a 70-80 point guy than an 80-90 point guy from now on: however, you can likely also explain his dip in production due to him having lesser linemates. If one of amarner or Nylander develop into a player of near St. Louis's caliber - his production will go up.

90 points is good for the Art Ross these days, but I know what you're saying.

He has been playing with Palat and Namestnikov lately and they are basically there to get him the puck. He NEEDS a playmaker.

If we drafted Chychrun/Sergachev/Laine, I always felt that Marner was the best fit for Stamkos.

JVR-Stakos-Marner
Laine-Nylander-?

Do you honestly think Willi would be bitter if he ended up being a 1rst line winger to Stammer and the chemistry is working well?

I mean lets face it, that's about how he would end up there full time.

If no chemistry then there are other options on where to play Nylander.

What if Nylander turns out to be better then Stamkos? Not historically but just better then the current version of Stamkos.

I see cap hell.

 

[Faltorvo]

90 points is good for the Art Ross these days, but I know what you're saying.

He has been playing with Palat and Namestnikov lately and they are basically there to get him the puck. He NEEDS a playmaker.

If we drafted Chychrun/Sergachev/Laine, I always felt that Marner was the best fit for Stamkos.

JVR-Stakos-Marner
Laine-Nylander-?



What if Nylander turns out to be better then Stamkos? Not historically but just better then the current version of Stamkos.

I see cap hell.

can't name many goal scorers that don't need a skilled set up man and the ones that come to mind end up being on the list of greatest players of all time.

If willi turns out better then current version of Stammer and we have Stammer, well then colour thrilled.

cap hell? what are you talking about??? when, what year does this start?

after the next two seasons our books are wide open, we have 1 player under contract,1 LTIR (Horton) and 1 cap retention (1.2m kessel) for the start of the 18/19 season ,

jeesus man if that is not a cap situation where almost anything can be done, then league is seriously broken.

 

[WTFMAN99]

can't name many goal scorers that don't need a skilled set up man and the ones that come to mind end up being on the list of greatest players of all time.

If willi turns out better then current version of Stammer and we have Stammer, well then colour thrilled.

So at some point you're going to need to give Nylander 10M, Stamkos will have 10-11M, Matthews if drafted will need 10M eventually.

We also have Rielly, Marner....and an entire roster to fill out.

 

[Pookie]

if Stamkos signs here, he likely calls his terms, his position and gets a look at the "plan"

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think getting rid of Dion contract pretty much confirms they will

 

[Faltorvo]

So at some point you're going to need to give Nylander 10M, Stamkos will have 10-11M, Matthews if drafted will need 10M eventually.

We also have Rielly, Marner....and an entire roster to fill out.

do the math on when any of our kids could ever dream of demanding those kind of contracts and then compare that to a Stammer 7 year deal and it will make sense to you.

Plus your worried that we will have kids that can demand 10m a year way way down the road?

I say bloody hell awesome then, that means all this went perfectly to plan and we will have years of being a true cup contender.

 

[WTFMAN99]

do the math on when any of our kids could ever dream of demanding those kind of contracts and then compare that to a Stammer 7 year deal and it will make sense to you.

Plus your worried that we will have kids that can demand 10m a year way way down the road?

I say bloody hell awesome then, that means all this went perfectly to plan and we will have years of being a true cup contender.

When their contract expires and they outproduce Stamkos?

Stamkos currently isn't even a PT/Game

I have high expectations for Nylander, Marner and whoever else we pick in the draft, and if it's Matthews...I am pretty confident they will all be put in a position to have success.

 

[Doc300c]

So at some point you're going to need to give Nylander 10M, Stamkos will have 10-11M, Matthews if drafted will need 10M eventually.

We also have Rielly, Marner....and an entire roster to fill out.

Matthews, Marner and Nylander all have 3 year ELC contracts, that would mean that Stamkos is already down to 4 years remaining before they need new contracts.

If we get Matthews and he becomes a $10M player as well as Nylander and Marner we just need a 4 year bridge contract, which will still hold all of them to RFA's where we will be past Stamkos and can get them all $30M.

Its more likely that if they do all become $10M players that it wont be at the same time.

Even if its 1 at a time we would need to bridge the other 2.

Chicago has 2 $10.5M players right now. In another 4 years with the cap going up we could have at least an extra $6M to work with.

 

[Faltorvo]

When their contract expires and they outproduce Stamkos?

Stamkos currently isn't even a PT/Game

I have high expectations for Nylander, Marner and whoever else we pick in the draft, and if it's Matthews...I am pretty confident they will all be put in a position to have success.

It takes 7 seasons at the earliest to be able to demand UFA contract numbers like Stammer.

Stammer would be starting his 2nd contract with us before any of the kids can demand enough to cause cap issues.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Matthews, Marner and Nylander all have 3 year ELC contracts, that would mean that Stamkos is already down to 4 years remaining before they need new contracts.

If we get Matthews and he becomes a $10M player as well as Nylander and Marner we just need a 4 year bridge contract, which will still hold all of them to RFA's where we will be past Stamkos and can get them all $30M.

Its more likely that if they do all become $10M players that it wont be at the same time.

Even if its 1 at a time we would need to bridge the other 2.

Chicago has 2 $10.5M players right now. In another 4 years with the cap going up we could have an extra $6M to work with.

Yeah but we have to consider Rielly as well, and hopefully some other half decent defenseman, goalie, and entire roster to fill out.

I'll just state that I think signing Stamkos if we draft Matthews would be a terrible idea for the reasons I have listed. I respect everyone else's opinion on this of course, but I have mine.

 

[Confucius]

If he wants 10 from the Bolts, the Leafs will need to offer more to offset the larger tax rate in Ontario compared to Florida.

I've come around to wanting Stamkos (mildly at least), but I don't think he signs with a bottom feeder team like the Leafs for a dime under 11 million.

About the taxes, I'm not really sure if he'd be paying less playing in Florida. Reason being, he is a Canadian working in the U S. I think foreigners may be taxed more. Pretty sure I've read where quite a few players take out U S citizenship to ease their tax burden. Pretty sure that's why Gretzky and Lemieux did.

 

[080]

Stamkos has been 1st or 2nd line all year, mostly 1st though with the injuries Johnson has dealt with. Sometimes he's been shifted to wing though.

I ask this though, Nylander said directly to Babcock and management (before Lou was hired) that he wanted to play centre, and they have accommodated him by developing him as one thus far. This is a guy we've drafted and put 2 years into. Outside of Stamkos having pedigree in the NHL (and granted he has quite a bit) we're kind of screwing over the kid we've drafted and purposely held back in the AHL and going to stick him on wing now? Same situation, just one is obviously less established in the league, but you could see where Nylander could become bitter- and I'm sure most people on this board won't care but I see it as a similar situation.

Why can't Nylander be a second-line centre?

Stamkos
Nylander
Kadri
Whoever

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Well I know when I have to take the QEW, I always see this bill board with Phaneuf selling some watch.... Stamkos can have that

Honest question: Would it be illegal (Conflict of interest) for Bell or Rogers to offer him something? I could see Stamkos trying to sell us Leafs TV, or NHL center ice etc....

Yeah you would likely see that Phaneuf ad swapped out for Stamkos' Tissot endorsement.

Regarding Rogers, they already have access to certain likeness and rights to athlete imagery after signing their broadcasting package. So I would assume they could use Stamkos for promotional integrations on a limited basis.

 

[Ace]

It takes 7 seasons at the earliest to be able to demand UFA contract numbers like Stammer.

Stammer would be starting his 2nd contract with us before any of the kids can demand enough to cause cap issues.

Good luck with that.

If those players are great they will get paid after 3 years. It's the way the league is going. Tarasenko got 8 times 60. Subban did a bridge and now makes nearly 10 per before he reached 7 years. McDavid will get a ton per after 3 years.

If those young players are great they will get paid young or they will sign offer sheets and get paid young somewhere else.

 

[New Liskeard]

Why can't Nylander be a second-line centre?

Stamkos
Nylander
Kadri
Whoever

Many are suggesting Kadri will get 5 to 5.5 maybe 6 per in his next negotiations. Having Kadri play 3rd line c which is very likely under those circumstances making even 5 mil per is a horrible decision, and likely for another 5 years.

 

[Leafin]

People are worried about having too many players worth 10 million? When we get there lets deal with it then. Until then we should be looking to add as many of those as we can.

If all of Marner, Nylander, 2016 draft pick + Rielly, + Stamkos is worth 10 million our team should downright nasty. At that point you deal with it. Get as many elite talent players as we can.

The NHL roster has 1 elite talent in Rielly. Lets really worry about it when we have 6.

 

[Le Cobra]

Ignore if old

Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun: Word is the Lightning aren’t close to a contract extension with Steven Stamkos. Reports last month were that the Lightning offered Stamkos eight-years at a $8.5 million cap hit. Belief is that Stamkos wants close to eight-years and a $10.5 million cap hit.Rumors are that Stamkos will sign with the Maple Leafs if he goes to the open market.
Teams will be calling the Lightning before the trade deadline to see what the asking price for Stamkos would be. Since the Lightning are in the playoff race, they are going to want to keep their players.

Source: http://mynhltraderumors.com/steven-stamkos-toronto-maple-leafs/2016/02/10/

 

[WTFMAN99]

Ignore if old



Source: http://mynhltraderumors.com/steven-stamkos-toronto-maple-leafs/2016/02/10/

The 8.5M offer is a good one and fair one. He's paid for what he's done this year, and maybe even above that in all honesty.

It also allows them to keep a cup contending team together.

 

[Apotheosis]

Was in the pro-Stamkos corner, but now I'm not so sure. I would rather slow cook the rebuild and not have him here. Cap will become more important when our guys are actually developed, to the point where his cap hit will actually be a detriment.