Will Kris Letang make the HOF?

[Walkingthroughforest]

It's very hard to explain to my family and relatives how much HFBoards mean to me. I do have a bit obsession about this community, as prove this post - that I'm writing on a Christmas night, after hours of reading different post about hockey and whatnot.

I have been lurking here for a decade now. I remember coming here after every big event, and not only related to sports, from 9/11 to more joyful events and what not. I discovered my favourite band through the entertainment board - a band, The National, I have now seen 7 different times in three different countries. I've mot some people IRL that I first met here, online, that have become close friends, even. I almost lost a job because of HFboards - and even back, I kept going back. Because I have such a strong bond with this community, it's bigger than me.

So this is why I decided to take a time to share one of my most personnal stories, that I have mostly only told to my first wife and my parents because of how unbelievable it seems - and because honestly, no one except real hockey nerds will truly appreciate.

So here it goes : let's go back to December 23th, in the year of 2004.

I just went undrafted in the 2003 draft. This is where I first heard the name of Kris Letang - a person I couldnt believe would save my life, a few months later.

I went back to my hometown Val D'Or, to meet with my girlfriend which I would end up marry for Christmas. I was driving through one of those exceptionnal snowstorm you would end up telling your kids about. I just had a freak injury, working in the shop, so I was driving my Toyota Camry with a arm in a plaster.

It was a 8 hours road, through snow and hell, with only one functional arm! This was obviously very dangerous, but I was in a hard place in my life and I just really wanted to be with my girlfriend. So I drove until I got lost - and snowed in. I remember it being around 9 pm, only, and thinking it was a matter of time before another car would take the same winding road as me and help me out.

Keep in mind this was early 2000. I didnt even had one of those bad cellphone with bad reception. I was just sitting there, hoping for glowing lights to appear behind me. My mind was running wild - I kept thinking about my future, the dream I had to play in the NHL was all but lost. Between the pratices, my bad grad at school, a girlfriend I would neglect... I got lost among my dream.

Then the snow got thickier, thickier, and I had to get out every hour or so to make sure my Camry wouldnt get snowed-in. I had a fair amount of gaz left, but I thought... what if?

What if no one pass by this road? What if I have to sleep here? Would I get frozen to death? Probably not, but I was starting to get scared. I couldnt start to walk anyway, because I was seriously lost, and I might have been miles away from the closest home.

So I did what I had to do : I slept there. I took all the clothes I had in my luggage, made myself a nice bed, and prayed I wouldnt get frozen to death, and thinking my girlfriend would be worried sick.

Just like in a horror movie, I was waken up by a loud banging on my window - giving me the scare of my life. And there was a young dude, besides his pickup. I checked time, it was a little bit past 6 a.m.

Kris Letang was there, on his route from Montréal to Val D'or, to meet players he met at a training camp. It's the team that drafted him, and for which he'd ended up playing.

My car was out of gaz - but I was so relieved to finally see someone. Kris picked me up, and we would do the road to the closest gaz station. Even at the times, he was already extremely beautiful, with his long dark hair and his dreamy eyes. I remember thinking how nice he smelled, especially for someone who just drove a long night roadtrip.

We discussed the previous draft, in which we were both, in the stands, hoping to hear our name get called. And then, he told me : '' Dont worry. Life will find a way to make you happy, just like I found you. ''

He was so confident. You could tell by the time he was a future champion. I was a bit shy, to tell the truth. But he made me feel so comfortable. He's an easy talker, he had well thought opinions on everything. Keep in my mind, we were just entering the Irak invasion fiasco, he was really informed about it. I was so enlighted. But one thing that made me doubt, is when I asked him about his future. He told me : I will make the NHL. I will play there. And I will become the first white player to play in this league.

I told him there was already plenty of white players in the league, which is still mostly played only by caucasian players. He didnt seemed to mind. And at this point, neither did I. It was just one of those perfect moment.

On the road back, I asked him to sign my plaster, which he did.

But he didnt only signed his name, after dropping me by.

He told me : ''For Kev. Just watch me, in a few years I will be known as the Penguin to play in the NHL. Kris''

I told him: there's a much better chance of that to happen, if you mean Penguin the team, and not the animal.

And then he winked, and told me ''Sometimes, Life finds a way''

And he drove away

 

[biturbo19]

One of those borderline cases who probably does get in after a few years of eligibility when there's a weak crop some year. Biggest problem is some of the missed time and lack of a Norris trophy. But he's got strong production over a sustained period of time, Cup ring, and despite them winning one without him, part of the "three musketeers" of that Penguins mini-dynasty core. He's also shown a ton of perseverance with his heart condition and coming back from a stroke. That kind of feel good story always helps with the voters, as does always being a good friendly, well-spoken interview.


I think the sheer volume and consistency of times he's been in the Norris conversation does enough to get him in, despite not ever being the absolute best in an era that has featured some pretty incredible defenceman seasons.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It's an interesting question. I think we need to acknowledge that there have been players who have been inducted who are outright mistakes. If we accept the bar as Leo Boivin, Kevin Lowe, Edgar Laprade, Mike Vernon, Clark Gillies, Dick Duff, Dave Andreychuk, Gerry Cheevers etc - there are easily 50 players (maybe closer to 100) who should be immediately inducted using them as precedent. That feels wrong.

I like to ask myself if a player is better than the bottom 10% of the Hall. If the answer is clearly yes, they should be inducted. For me, this includes players like JC Tremblay, Carl Brewer, Jeremy Roenick, Theo Fleury, Henrik Zetterberg, Patrik Elias, John LeClair, Curtis Joseph, etc.

There are a lot of players where the answer is no, or maybe. This includes players like Claude Giroux, Steve Larmer, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar, Kris Letang, Adam Foote, etc. I wouldn't vote to induct them. Yes, you can find 5-10 inductees who they're (arguably) better than. But there should be some recognition that mistakes have been made in the past, so let's not make it worse by inducting 50 defensemen who are more deserving than Leo Boivin.

I don't think I'd put LeClair in the upper list. His production was too closely tied to playing with Lindros.

 

[norrisnick]

It's an interesting question. I think we need to acknowledge that there have been players who have been inducted who are outright mistakes. If we accept the bar as Leo Boivin, Kevin Lowe, Edgar Laprade, Mike Vernon, Clark Gillies, Dick Duff, Dave Andreychuk, Gerry Cheevers etc - there are easily 50 players (maybe closer to 100) who should be immediately inducted using them as precedent. That feels wrong.

I like to ask myself if a player is better than the bottom 10% of the Hall. If the answer is clearly yes, they should be inducted. For me, this includes players like JC Tremblay, Carl Brewer, Jeremy Roenick, Theo Fleury, Henrik Zetterberg, Patrik Elias, John LeClair, Curtis Joseph, etc.

There are a lot of players where the answer is no, or maybe. This includes players like Claude Giroux, Steve Larmer, Peter Bondra, Sergei Gonchar, Kris Letang, Adam Foote, etc. I wouldn't vote to induct them. Yes, you can find 5-10 inductees who they're (arguably) better than. But there should be some recognition that mistakes have been made in the past, so let's not make it worse by inducting 50 defensemen who are more deserving than Leo Boivin.

The trick here is that your etc is doing some very heavy lifting. The list of names that are shaky, if those specific guys are shaky, is just as long if not longer.

What separates Andreychuk from Sundin? Length of Toronto tenure? Why is Andreychuk iffy but no one bats an eye for Sundin?

 

[Voight]

I don't care how they compare to existing members. Just because someone got in that shouldn't have doesn't mean current players should get in.

As for the standards, I would say major individual hardware is pretty important, and there are very few situations where a player can get in without it. I don't think an offensive defenseman that has never hit 70 points rises to that level. Great career. If he somehow managed to eke out a Norris one of his best seasons, I'd probably say he gets in, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. And I'd say he's close but probably falls a little short.

I agree to an extent but I'd argue a fair amount of cases need context.

I.e Brad Park/other guys who had their primes the same time as Bobby Orr, high scoring guys (especially centers) from the 80s when Gretz had pretty much every award locked down, players who were consistently among the best in the league even if they didn't beat out the competition

 

[Hockey Outsider]

The trick here is that your etc is doing some very heavy lifting. The list of names that are shaky, if those specific guys are shaky, is just as long if not longer.

What separates Andreychuk from Sundin? Length of Toronto tenure? Why is Andreychuk iffy but no one bats an eye for Sundin?

Without getting too far off topic, I don't think Andreychuk and Sundin are in the same ballpark.
Andreychuk is one of the worst post-WWII players inducted into the HOF. Sundin is an average to slightly below average HOF forward.

Andreychuk placed in the top 20 in scoring twice in a 23 year career. He didn't lead his team in scoring either of those years. Sundin placed in the top 20 in scoring 8 times, leading his team all eight times.

Andreychuk led his team in scoring 3 times in 23 years. Two of those three teams missed the playoffs, and the other lost in the first round (which meant that if Andreychuk was your top forward, your team wasn't going far). Andreychuk's biggest scoring lead was 7 points. Sundin led his team in scoring 13 times (with margins of 34, 27, 22, 21, 19 and 18 points - double Andreychuk's largest margin).

Andreychuk was never a year-end all-star, despite playing at the much less competitive LW position. Sundin was a year-end all-star twice. Andreychuk got zero votes for the Hart trophy in his entire career. Sundin got votes five times, peaking at 8th.

I don't like comparing players based on career totals, but Sundin has (slightly) more points. He did that while playing in a lower scoring era (1983 vs 1991 debut), and in nearly 300 fewer games.

Andreychuk has 16 more playoff points than Sundin. It took him 71 more games to get there - and he had the advantage of playing 80 games before 1995 (when scoring started to drop). Sundin played 6 playoff games before 1995. And Sundin is an all-time great performer in international play; Andreychuk never played in a major best-on-best tournament.

Andreychuk was a bit stronger and more physical. Defensively, at ES, they're roughly even. Sundin played on the PK more consistently throughout his career.

The only reason Andreychuk is in the Hall is because the voters were apparently impressed that he hung around and scored 0.5 PPG as a third liner for close to a decade. He's absolutely one of the worst players in the Hall. Sundin sometimes gets overrated by Leafs fans, but he's so far above Andreychuk the comparison is kinda insulting. It would be like comparing Mike Modano, Marian Hossa or Anze Kopitar to Dino Ciccarelli and Mike Gartner.

 

[Empoleon8771]

MAF is debatable IMO

No he's not, he's 100% making the HOF.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree to an extent but I'd argue a fair amount of cases need context.

I.e Brad Park/other guys who had their primes the same time as Bobby Orr, high scoring guys (especially centers) from the 80s when Gretz had pretty much every award locked down, players who were consistently among the best in the league even if they didn't beat out the competition

I agree. Don’t think Letang hits that threshold though. Was he ever considered a top 2-3 defensemen in the game? If he was, not for a very long time. Seems like he was a consensus top 10 for a lot of years, but never much more than that. He had only two top 5 Norris finishes, and only one of them he got anywhere close to winning.