Player Discussion Will Borgen

[nyr2k2]

On the offer sheets. The Broberg and Holloway situation may have opened the door for more teams to try it. Broberg has been good and Holloway is finally living up to his potential.

Difference with us is we have the space to keep our guys. It's one thing to do the offer sheet when you really think you're going to get the player. When you know the parent club is likely to match, now you're just pissing them off by making them pay more than they want. I wouldn't expect to see much of that. Which we never have.

I would be very surprised to see any of our guys sheeted.

 

[NYR Viper]

As much as I hated this trade... Borgen has been good.

And if people knew some of the behind the scene stuff with Kakko, they would understand he was likely never going to flourish here in NY.

The only regret I have is not trading him after his 18 goal 40 point season when his value was higher.

A bit more than I'd have liked to pay and a year too long but I guess you need to get some stability.

What does this mean about Kakko?

 

[GAGLine]

Wanna see long term on Cuylle. He has 4 years left of RFA. 6 year deal to buy out 2 of those UFA years? Brings him to UFA going into his age 29 season. What is fair? 6.5?

Bridge for K'andre. Such an enigma. Think I would still prefer to see him moved for a similar talented young forward in the offseason.

K'Andre only has 2 RFA years remaining, so it's either a 1-year deal or a 3+ year deal.

I think we need to remember how much better he was under Gallant. That player is still in there somewhere and we've seen hints of it recently. I wouldn't be so quick to move him.

If we do move him, then we've got to a find a replacement, and we may end up paying a premium in terms of assets and/or cap space to fill that spot. And that would be on top of whatever we are doing with the other 2 spots on the left side.

 

[McRanger92]

Wanna see long term on Cuylle. He has 4 years left of RFA. 6 year deal to buy out 2 of those UFA years? Brings him to UFA going into his age 29 season. What is fair? 6.5?

Bridge for K'andre. Such an enigma. Think I would still prefer to see him moved for a similar talented young forward in the offseason.

Was thinking 6x4.75 for Cuylle. He does everything. Will be our Sam Bennett as a 20-20 guy who can play seamlessly in the top 6 on either wing. Have him take a few faceoffs while we're at it.

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

And then you sign someone else, and that player wants protection, only they probably have more leverage to get it.

The protection on Borgen's contract is a non-factor. It's an NMC for one year, then it drops every year until there's no protection in the final year.

If that is what we gave without leverage I'd be hiding behind the sofa to see what he'd get up to for a player with more.

It is this trend and the fact players of this standard and ability get move protection in the first place. In a capped league it is absolutely ludicrous. Should only be reserved for star players, and even then I am not especially keen on it unless you are talking about a cornerstone to the franchise player.

They have saddled us before and will do so again at some point. I will give Drury credit in that he has managed to work his way around them cleverly this season. That type of thing is going to be removed in the next CBA you can bet your bottom dollar. If clauses at that point are still being dished out like candy that's a bad mix.

 

[McRanger92]

K'Andre only has 2 RFA years remaining, so it's either a 1-year deal or a 3+ year deal.

I think we need to remember how much better he was under Gallant. That player is still in there somewhere and we've seen hints of it recently. I wouldn't be so quick to move him.

If we do move him, then we've got to a find a replacement, and we may end up paying a premium in terms of assets and/or cap space to fill that spot. And that would be on top of whatever we are doing with the other 2 spots on the left side.

If this is the K'Andre we are getting with more maturity + a stable partner in Borgen, I can stomach a long term deal in the 6s with the cap rising. The upside is very obviously still there. That being said if an enticing trade for a young center comes along, KAM is not untouchable. And his contract negotiations wont be as simple as what I said.

 

[Alluckks]

Was thinking 6x4.75 for Cuylle. He does everything. Will be our Sam Bennett as a 20-20 guy who can play seamlessly in the top 6 on either wing. Have him take a few faceoffs while we're at it.

I think that feels far too low money of what it would need to buy 6 years, especially with 2 of those years being UFA years.

 

[GAGLine]

If that is what we gave without leverage I'd be hiding behind the sofa to see what he'd get up to for a player with more.

It is this trend and the fact players of this standard and ability get move protection in the first place. In a capped league it is absolutely ludicrous. Should only be reserved for star players, and even then I am not especially keen on it unless you are talking about a cornerstone to the franchise player.

They have saddled us before and will do so again at some point. I will give Drury credit in that he has managed to work his way around them cleverly this season. That type of thing is going to be removed in the next CBA you can bet your bottom dollar. If clauses at that point are still being dished out like candy that's a bad mix.

Everything is a negotiation. If we gave him less clauses, he'd want a higher AAV, and you'd complain about that.

But it seems like in this instance you're just complaining based on principle. The actual clauses in his contract are largely irrelevant. They won't stop us from trading him if it comes to that.

Whether you like it that UFAs get these clauses is completely irrelevant. The NHLPA collectively bargained for them, and they aren't likely to go away any time soon. Players have rights too, and one of the most important things for them is being able to have some say in where they are playing.

Imagine you had a job where your company could trade you to anywhere in the US or Canada that they want, at any time, and you have absolutely no say in the matter. Yes, these people get paid a lot of money, but money or not, if you were in their situation, you'd want the same thing. So, don't begrudge others for wanting them.

 

[Kodiak]

Just for fun, let's look at the Brendan Smith contract and the Borgen contract, because that comparison keeps being made and I think some people need to recalibrate their frame of reference for these contracts. The cap keeps going up and all salaries are rising as a result.

Smith was signed for $4.35m and his contract started in 2017-18, when the salary cap was $75m. Smith's contract was 5.8% of the total cap. If the cap rises to $97m as many are saying, then an equivalent contract for 2025-26 would be $5.63m.

Alternatively, Borgen just signed for $4.1m against a $97m cap, which is 4.23%. An equivalent contract in 2017-18 would be $3.17m.

Now, whether Borgen is worth the contract depends on your view of him as a player. Some people say that $4.1m is too much for a 3rd pairing dman, and that's not an unreasonable take. However, Borgen has played a top 4 role for this team since he was acquired, and has played well after an initial settling in period. So I think that if you don't believe him to be a true top 4 dman, then at worst you would have to call him a high-end #5 that can move up into a #4 spot when necessary. That has significant value and he would command a similar contract in free agency.

But as for saying that a third pairing dman should be making $1m, that's just out of touch with the current salary structure. If you are signing a veteran dman for $1m, then you are getting a guy that is spending most nights in the press box and occasionally getting bounced to the minors. We have that guy already. His name is Chad Ruhwedel and I don't think anyone wants to see him play 82 games in a season.

 

[zlev]

pretty cool that you can play halfway decent for...8 games? and get $20mil for it. thanks to Chris Drury.

 

[GAGLine]

I think that feels far too low money of what it would need to buy 6 years, especially with 2 of those years being UFA years.

I don't have any idea what Drury would be willing to offer on a 6-year deal, or what Cuylle would accept. His production has fallen off big time since the start of the season.

October: 8 points in 9 games
November: 12 points in 14 games
December: 4 points in 13 games
January: 2 points in 12 games

He has no doubt been impacted by other factors, such as Fil getting hurt, Kakko getting traded, and the lines being put in the blender.

He does have 2 goals in his last 3 games, and the team has been playing better overall, so maybe this is the start of him getting back on the scoresheet more regularly.

There's risk for both the player and the team on a long-term deal. Offer him too much and we may regret it. Offer him too little and he may regret it. I guess it comes down to which player the team thinks he is and which player he and his agent thinks he is. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle, but what sort of contract would reflect that?

I think it's far more likely that he'll sign and 2-year deal and see where the chips fall.

 

[GAGLine]

pretty cool that you can play halfway decent for...8 games? and get $20mil for it. thanks to Chris Drury.

The 233 games he played with Seattle don't count?

 

[NYR Viper]

pretty cool that you can play halfway decent for...8 games? and get $20mil for it. thanks to Chris Drury.

Its posts like this that make my eyes bleed

 

[nyr2k2]

I mean Brendan Smith showed up fat and late to camp and then broke his hand fighting a teammate in an AHL practice. His downfall wasn't exactly typical. There's always a risk when you sign anyone that they decide to become a lazy slug, but again, that's not a normal route forward.

More likely would be Borgen's play falling off a cliff, but you're going to run that risk with anyone you sign. Soy Boy Zibanejad seemed like a good bet to play at a high level for at least the first half of his contract but now he looks like a partially reanimated corpse despite only being 31. You do your best to project but it's hard to know.

 

[mike14]

Edstrom is 21 games away from qualifying as a group 2 RFA.
That puts him, along with Cuylle and Miller at risk of being given offer sheet(s).
Adam Edstrom is a 24 year old 6’6” forward with speed who takes the body. I’m guessing there will be 31 GMs out there that will be climbing over each other to give him along with Miller and Cuylle offer sheets.

That's a fair point, I didn't consider offer sheets. I also forgot about Gabe, so 3 of your 4 required forwards could be ELCs, and as much as I like Edstrom if some wants to really over pay him you have to let him go and see what Othmann can do there.

While I'm sure there are some GMs considering offer sheets, it would be a pretty ballsy move knowing that Panarin is done after next season and the Rangers have $11.5m to go 'revenge shopping' with if they choose to.

 

[haveandare]

I like borgen but with such a small sample size after struggling in seattle we somehow don’t seem to get any break on money, term or protections?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't have any idea what Drury would be willing to offer on a 6-year deal, or what Cuylle would accept. His production has fallen off big time since the start of the season.

October: 8 points in 9 games
November: 12 points in 14 games
December: 4 points in 13 games
January: 2 points in 12 games

He has no doubt been impacted by other factors, such as Fil getting hurt, Kakko getting traded, and the lines being put in the blender.

He does have 2 goals in his last 3 games, and the team has been playing better overall, so maybe this is the start of him getting back on the scoresheet more regularly.

There's risk for both the player and the team on a long-term deal. Offer him too much and we may regret it. Offer him too little and he may regret it. I guess it comes down to which player the team thinks he is and which player he and his agent thinks he is. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle, but what sort of contract would reflect that?

I think it's far more likely that he'll sign and 2-year deal and see where the chips fall.

Will fell off big time last season as well. Probably just coincidental though. Hopefully he is catching his second wind.

 

[McRanger92]

I think that feels far too low money of what it would need to buy 6 years, especially with 2 of those years being UFA years.

I thought 3.75 for borgen so maybe 5.1 for Cuylle?

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I wouldn't assume that Drury is done tinkering with the defense. Keep in mind also that 2 years ago, K'Andre put up 43 points and we were all extremely stoked about his future. He has been better of late. If he can find his way back to being that guy we saw 2 years ago, the defense as a whole will look very different.

No one is offer-sheeting a Rangers player. Other GMs don't want to risk souring that relationship.

The only players who sign offer sheets are non-arbitration eligible RFAs like Broberg and Holloway. The only player we'd have to worry about then is Cuylle, unless you think someone is going to throw money at Rempe or Garand.

Drury has shown the ability to get contracts done early. He got Laf, Shesty and now Borgen all done well before free agency. He could sign Cuylle before July 1st, making it a complete non-starter.

Every year, people panic about offer sheets. Kakko, Laf, whoever. They never happen. They won't happen. No GM is that stupid.

The sample size is much larger than Borgen's time with the Rangers. He played 233 games with Seattle before we traded for him. Those games count.

Borgen is making 2.9 mil in actual salary this year. 4.1 mil isn't much of a leap. You're nuts if you think there wasn't another team out there willing to give him that. Lindgren is making 4.5 mil this year. Which player would you rather have long term?


Schneider has 1 year left on his current contract, and he will be an arbitration-eligible RFA. Borgen was a pending UFA. One contract has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

St. Louis successfully offer sheeted two oilers for this season.
Maybe the etiquette has changed?

 

[Machinehead]

*Rangers sign this contract*

The main boards:

 

[GAGLine]

St. Louis successfully offer sheeted two oilers for this season.
Maybe the etiquette has changed?

Edmonton had much bigger cap issues than we do. They were much more vulnerable.

We have plenty of cap space to match any offer for Cuylle and then figure it out later. It's possible that we move someone between now and July 1st, creating more cap space. It's possible that Cuylle will sign before July 1st. It's possible that Cuylle is given an offer sheet and refuses to sign it. And I still maintain that no GM wants to risk alienating the Rangers as a trade partner, or risk whatever retribution the Rangers would enact.

Offer sheets happen infrequently for a reason. The handwringing over it every year is unnecessary. Kakko didn't sign one. Laf didn't sign one. Miller didn't sign one. Fox didn't sign one. Schneider didn't sign one. Cuylle won't sign one. You can take that to the bank.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

offer sheets are only tough when a team is either right up against the cap or if they’re a poverty stricken franchise and cant pay up

rangers will be neither this offseason

 

[Daves a mess]

GDT being locked brings me here to say, that that 15 second stretch of stupidity, at the end of the game, is up with the all time dumbest shit I've ever seen.

That seriously some lame ass pee wee hockey play out there.

 

[Draft Guru]

GDT being locked brings me here to say, that that 15 second stretch of stupidity at the end of the game is up with the all time dumbest shit I've ever seen.

That seriously some lane ass pee wee hockey play out there.

$20.5M, baby

 

[noncents]

GDT being locked brings me here to say, that that 15 second stretch of stupidity at the end of the game is up with the all time dumbest shit I've ever seen.

That seriously some lame ass pee wee hockey play out there.

lol for a second i thought this thread was a snarky title for the PGT