Why is Boston such a good organization?

[WarriorofTime]

Great post, but one correction, Chara damaged his knee early in the 2014-15 season, not the 2013 Cup run season. That knee injury degraded Chara permanently. He was still an impactful player but it absolutely degraded his cycle killing prowess which was pretty close to perfect. IMO if that injury doesn't happen Bruins may have not pulled a DNQ in 2015 or 2016 and McAvoy and Carlo may not have even been drafted.

and Bergeron was playing with a broken rib and separated shoulder in the 2013 Playoffs

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I think there have been threads about Pittsburgh and Chicago at naseum yeah but getting Crosby or Kane like 1st overall picks will also drive success. Chicago is now in shit land and the kings bottomed out pretty bad. Pittsburgh had continued periods of success but again, Crosby and Malkin will carry that. I love Bergeron and Krejci, and Bergy is a 1st ballot HHOFer for different reasons than Crosby and Malkin, but Im not dumb enough to try to compare them.

That leaves the Lightning, I wont get into the COVID/Bubble cups discussion its not worth it.

brings it back to the original point of the post, the Bruins had two high success periods 2008-2015 and 2018-Now (yes I consider getting to another SCF a success even if its a spectacularly embarrassing loss). Had a 2/3 year stretch of yuck mediocrity but didn't bottom out. to me thats more the point of this thread. how did they do that?


to me an most bruins fans it was signing this guy on July 1st 2006.

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They also signed Savard that off season and had Tim Thomas clearly take the starting goalies position, yet DNQ due to having no other impact player on D behind Chara.

Then, the next year an eventual HHOF center goes down after 10 games in Bergeron
who was the #2 scorer the prior DNQ year and make the PO. Hockey can be an insane sport.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

and Bergeron was playing with a broken rib and separated shoulder in the 2013 Playoffs

Yes he was and it hurt Boston and Horton hurt his shoulder in that series also but thats part of the game. Hawks had a great team and there was no shame losing in 6.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

I think there have been threads about Pittsburgh and Chicago at naseum yeah but getting Crosby or Kane like 1st overall picks will also drive success. Chicago is now in shit land and the kings bottomed out pretty bad. Pittsburgh had continued periods of success but again, Crosby and Malkin will carry that. I love Bergeron and Krejci, and Bergy is a 1st ballot HHOFer for different reasons than Crosby and Malkin, but Im not dumb enough to try to compare them.

That leaves the Lightning, I wont get into the COVID/Bubble cups discussion its not worth it.

brings it back to the original point of the post, the Bruins had two high success periods 2008-2015 and 2018-Now (yes I consider getting to another SCF a success even if its a spectacularly embarrassing loss). Had a 2/3 year stretch of yuck mediocrity but didn't bottom out. to me thats more the point of this thread. how did they do that?


to me an most bruins fans it was signing this guy on July 1st 2006.

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Good post. And I do agree Chara was the difference maker. They should try to get him into leadership asap.

For the other people suggesting it’s been many decades of consistency, I don’t see it. I was in Boston a lot before and after the time they just acquired Chara. Clearly it ended up building to something. But I remember feeling kinda glum for the hardcore fans I was meeting. I saw a lot of empty seats, the team was middle of the pack and still felt like they were missing Thornton (I saw more Thornton jerseys than current players and it had been a couple years since he was traded). This was not a franchise that anyone would say was a model of sustained good performance.

And it definitely turned around! I just don’t see the franchise as being a massive outlier relative to a few others who’ve had sustained high performance (the point about high draft picks is fair, but other teams with sustained performance for more than a decade also thrived because of great selections in later draft rounds).

I think the real test for Boston will be in a couple years, when the Chara era (Ch-era?) is really in the rear view.

 

[Mohar Ikram]

We have to accept one thing.

Massachusetts is a hell of Sports state.

Their big 4 sports team (Red Sox, Pats, Celtics and Bruins) are always top dog.

Even when they down, they always competitive. Their bad periods are not as damning as other team bad period (except maybe Celtics Rick Pitino era is the worst but still miles better than others).

Respect to sports culture far above the Northeast there.

 

[nbwingsfan]

And that really is amazing.

There really are " no excuses" in Bruinsville

Im not a Bruins fans.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Tanking kills a lot more teams than it helps and the average fan here doesn't realize it. The opposite is also true.

 

[majormajor]

Winning cultures are a thing. It’s not something just unique to the Bruins, there are multiple franchises in every sport that are almost always competitive. It usually starts with having the right people in place in regards to ownership, management and coaching. Once that is stable, the players in the room then have high expectations to perform, because anything less won’t be accepted or they’ll be gone.

Same goes for the flip side. There are purely incompetent organizations that are continually bad because they have idiots running the show, and once they start losing it’s hard to get out of that hole because the players don’t know how to win.

The winning culture the Bruins have is in the room and on the ice.

This is the same management that gave us the Mitch Miller fiasco, it was the players admonishing the team for it.

The Bergeron and Chara core established the right way to play back in the Claude Julien era, and everyone has to fit into that. There are clearly defined duties that players have to fulfill.

 

[majormajor]

1. Culture
The Bergeron/Chara culture of inclusion has made for many tight locker rooms which leads to accountability from your peers, which is more sustainable than relying on the coach. Which leads into…

2. Focusing on two way players that offer a better $ to cap hit value than more one dimensional scorers
They get guys that buy in (and ship them out if they don’t, even if they are very good players like Thornton, Kessel, or Seguin). That buy in leads to teams that are consistently greater than the sum of their parts.

The flip side of 1+2 is that they often don’t have another level to elevate to in the post season. They tend to overachieve in the regular season relative to their talent.

3. Goaltending
Thomas to Rask to Ullmark to Swayman is insane. The structure of the D certainly helps. And so does Bob Essensa, who should have more recognition across the league as a difference making coach.

4. Pulling stars out of their ass later in the draft
This feels like luck. The Bruins run from 2006-2013 mirror those of most top tier contenders. Have a few really good drafts, build up talent, make some runs, and have guys start to age out. Not sure if things would have gone differently against Chicago if Bergeron and Chara didn’t get hurt, but Chara was never a real Norris guy again after he f***ed his knee. Looked like the end there. And then the Seguin trade blew up in their face.

But then they got lucky getting elite talents like McAvoy and Pasta in the mid to late 1st and were able to make another go at it with the Bergeron/Krejci/Chara backbone with an upset loss to STL. Over the years made some picks and deals and were able to transition almost seamlessly from an elite D lead by Chara, Boychuk, Seidenberg to an elite D led by McAvoy, Lindholm and Carlo.

They have just done a brilliant job on keep the defense and goaltending elite. And Lorhei looks like he could be the next step in keeping the D going when Lindholm slows down.

Up front? Well, it looks like they had a nice reclamation project go their way in Zacha. And Poitras looks like a surprise top 6 C with an unknown ceiling, but they are going to have to find another high end talent up front somehow to turn over to this post Bergeron/Krejci forward core.

They will have a lot of money next summer. We will see.

This post should probably be stickied to the OP.

Maybe cause of Neely's iron fist. He's been the only constant so far. And everytime guys in management leave, they suck elsewere.

Their success has little to do with any of their managers including Neely.

This is not an ownership + management + coaching led project. The players might as well have done it despite the higher ups.

 

[PaulD]

Im not a Bruins fans.

Sorry if my post read like you were. I'm not either.

Doesnt make their teams any less amazing though.
And I will repeat, they "dont make excuses" or come up with "reasons" to suck, tank, or lose while rebuilding, never blame injuries to key players, guys retiring while still great, or coaching changes etc etc etc

The Canadiens used to be able to say all that too. Them days are long gone. Arrgh.

 

[Caps8112]

meh, not like they set the world on fire anymore then any other team. They had a really good run with classy captains. 30 more wins doesnt really mean much when other teams have 1 to 2 more championships. Can say from watching the Caps kill it in the regular season and go out early you care less and less each year about the reg season.

 

[inthewings]

A lot of hockey fans are going to have to redefine organizational success. The league is up to 32 teams and will continue to grow, and a binary criteria for success (Cup or no Cup) will continue to make less and less sense. The Bruins are a model organization.

 

[PaulD]

This post should probably be stickied to the OP.



Their success has little to do with any of their managers including Neely.

This is not an ownership + management + coaching led project. The players might as well have done it despite the higher ups.

Who got all those players?

Who decided which players to keep, sign long term.....and which ones to let go to the rest of the league?
Who kept getting great goalies to take over for great goalies?

At the very least Boston has better ownership and management/coaching than most of their competitors.

 

[19 for president]

They are doing very similar things to what the Wings did from the 90s era to the early cap era. Good drafting, a bit of luck, and a solid winning culture. Their older to younger transition was more at D/ Goalie than at center like the Wings. Then you had a holdover staple in Bergeron like the Wings had in Lidstrom. It will be interesting to see how long they can continue without at least one high end center. Pasta/ March are better forwards than what the Wings were left with on D post Lids (really Kronner and nothing else). Dats and Z were also getting towards the end when Lids retired, and Boston's D is younger. I could see them holding out from a total basement team, but I don't know if I buy them as a true contender long term unless they can figure out a way to get some more center depth without a top of cap space. Pasta and Marchy were both vastly outperforming their contracts. March still is, but no that Pasta is getting paid fair value, its going to be harder to find that cap space.

The Bruins are who I think Stevie is really modeling the Wings after. In the cap era it is easier to build a long term contender through defense and goalie than it is at forward. Forwards simply cost too much. Unless you luck into a Malkin/Crosby kind of duo I think its better to build around 2 way 70-85 pt forwards than mega star scorers (100+). You get more bang for your buck overall.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This post should probably be stickied to the OP.



Their success has little to do with any of their managers including Neely.

This is not an ownership + management + coaching led project. The players might as well have done it despite the higher ups.

How do you think Chara and Bergeron came to Boston?

meh, not like they set the world on fire anymore then any other team. They had a really good run with classy captains. 30 more wins doesnt really mean much when other teams have 1 to 2 more championships. Can say from watching the Caps kill it in the regular season and go out early you care less and less each year about the reg season.
View attachment 763864

The best starting point is when the cap came in, not before.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

They are doing very similar things to what the Wings did from the 90s era to the early cap era. Good drafting, a bit of luck, and a solid winning culture. Their older to younger transition was more at D/ Goalie than at center like the Wings. Then you had a holdover staple in Bergeron like the Wings had in Lidstrom. It will be interesting to see how long they can continue without at least one high end center. Pasta/ March are better forwards than what the Wings were left with on D post Lids (really Kronner and nothing else). Dats and Z were also getting towards the end when Lids retired, and Boston's D is younger. I could see them holding out from a total basement team, but I don't know if I buy them as a true contender long term unless they can figure out a way to get some more center depth without a top of cap space. Pasta and Marchy were both vastly outperforming their contracts. March still is, but no that Pasta is getting paid fair value, its going to be harder to find that cap space.

The Bruins are who I think Stevie is really modeling the Wings after. In the cap era it is easier to build a long term contender through defense and goalie than it is at forward. Forwards simply cost too much. Unless you luck into a Malkin/Crosby kind of duo I think its better to build around 2 way 70-85 pt forwards than mega star scorers (100+). You get more bang for your buck overall.

This is a good take. Probably 30% of your best forwards (top 100) exceed
20 minutes a night, while 80% of D men (top 100) do.

If your Dmen and Goalies are good, say top 7-8, your going to be in games most every night. Boston fits that model and add in #88 and #63 and even with the losses of
Krejci, Bergrron, Hall and Foligno they should be a bubble team barring injuries.

 

[wintersej]

meh, not like they set the world on fire anymore then any other team. They had a really good run with classy captains. 30 more wins doesnt really mean much when other teams have 1 to 2 more championships. Can say from watching the Caps kill it in the regular season and go out early you care less and less each year about the reg season.
View attachment 763864

I think that "cap-era" is more favorable to Boston than including those seasons where Detroit had a payroll 300% as much. In that cap era period they are also third in playoff wins (in addition to first in regular season wins). Not sure what site you were looking at that has series wins. Curious about how those number look!

 

[Caps8112]

How do you think Chara and Bergeron came to Boston?



The best starting point is when the cap came in, not before.

thats fine, but other chart was first thing on google and had playoff series tallied to.. here a link to espn saying penguins have been most successful
The Accolade Index: Ranking every NHL team's success in the cap era

I think that "cap-era" is more favorable to Boston than including those seasons where Detroit had a payroll 300% as much. In that cap era period they are also third in playoff wins (in addition to first in regular season wins). Not sure what site you were looking at that has series wins. Curious about how those number look!

see above

 

[wintersej]

thats fine, but other chart was first thing on google and had playoff series tallied to.. here a link to espn saying penguins have been most successful
The Accolade Index: Ranking every NHL team's success in the cap era

see above

Thanks, that 2018 date in the article obviously misses another Cup appearance and two more Presidents trophies, and some individual accolades by Bergeron, Ullmark and Pastrnak (if those matter for this exercise, and I might be missing some end of season All Star selections, too. Oh and I guess some Jack Adams awards) and a lot of wins while some of the regular season stalwarts above them started to fade.

I think I would rather be a fan of Boston than Colorado, LA and Chicago. LA had an extra Cup but a lot of very lean years where it wasn’t fun to be a fan. Chicago similarly had a lot of lean years and some *brutal* off ice stuff, although getting Bedard in the end makes you feel better about the lean years. I think the off ice stuff makes it really hard to judge Chicago to be honest and I would totally understand someone disagreeing with my assessment. Colorado has the extra Cup but also a lot of shitty years to be a fan. There is no argument for Boston over the Pens or Tampa.

 

[Score08]

 

[theVladiator]

They are doing very similar things to what the Wings did from the 90s era to the early cap era. Good drafting, a bit of luck, and a solid winning culture. Their older to younger transition was more at D/ Goalie than at center like the Wings. Then you had a holdover staple in Bergeron like the Wings had in Lidstrom. It will be interesting to see how long they can continue without at least one high end center. Pasta/ March are better forwards than what the Wings were left with on D post Lids (really Kronner and nothing else). Dats and Z were also getting towards the end when Lids retired, and Boston's D is younger. I could see them holding out from a total basement team, but I don't know if I buy them as a true contender long term unless they can figure out a way to get some more center depth without a top of cap space. Pasta and Marchy were both vastly outperforming their contracts. March still is, but no that Pasta is getting paid fair value, its going to be harder to find that cap space.

Somebody clearly forgot the Wings drafts of that era. I would too, if I could. Hakan Andersson is almost god, but he was just one guy, trying to turn the shit-tide.

The Bruins are who I think Stevie is really modeling the Wings after. In the cap era it is easier to build a long term contender through defense and goalie than it is at forward. Forwards simply cost too much. Unless you luck into a Malkin/Crosby kind of duo I think its better to build around 2 way 70-85 pt forwards than mega star scorers (100+). You get more bang for your buck overall.

I do not think Yzerman needs to be a copy cat, having built a cup winner already elsewhere. Bruins aren't the only highly successful team of an era either. No matter what Bruins fans tell you here, they did not invent winning culture, or good drafting, or great goaltending. What this thread is a great example of, is how good Bruins marketing team is at selling the team to the fans.

 

[BostonBob]

Bruins aren't the only highly successful team of an era either. No matter what Bruins fans tell you here, they did not invent winning culture, or good drafting, or great goaltending.

( SIGH ) Not one Bruin fan here said that the Bruins invented or hold a patent on forming a winning culture.

What this thread is a great example of, is how good Bruins marketing team is at selling the team to the fans.

What this thread really is a great example of is showing how some people ( like you ) who have no idea what they are talking about still feeling the need to post anyway.

 

[Voight]

It also seems that they're always in the running for upper tier free agents/players should they have interest.

Taylor Hall as an example would only accept a trade to Boston, and then stayed there. Hampus Lindholm was traded to Boston, signed a long term extension right away.

 

[JaegerDice]

Are they?

They have one cup in the cap era.

They’re very good at staying competitive enough to make JJ money, not sure they’re the gold standard as far as actually, you know, winning the ultimate prize.

 

[goldnblack]

Are they?

They have one cup in the cap era.

They’re very good at staying competitive enough to make JJ money, not sure they’re the gold standard as far as actually, you know, winning the ultimate prize.

See my post on the previous page. The rebuild you're in now and have been in for some time, Boston is able to skip that phase. It's uncommon. You have to be a tremendously good organization to pull that off. Sparing the fans the years of rebuild is something none of us take for granted.

It starts by deciding what a "good" organization is. I think good is being the fave or close to it in any given game you play, for a very long time. It means you're always considered among the best. Boston has been that now for quite some time. I have a lot of appreciation for that.

Most players are typically proud to put on the black and gold. That also stands for a lot.