Why did Quebec not get a team?

OG6ix

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Apr 11, 2006
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Because Quebec is not needed. Sorry not sorry but when they are going to do very little for corporate money and tv rights what's the point? A packed house for 5 years until they suck again and then everyone blames the Canadian Dollar again?

No thanks. Smaller market than Winnipeg and we all saw the issues last year with their ownership group complaining.
 

cptjeff

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Sep 18, 2008
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Atlanta and Minnesota given 2nd chance. Quebec should have one too
The MSP metro area has 4.7 times the population of the Quebec metro area. The Atlanta metro area has nearly 8 times the population of the Quebec City metro area.

The bigger the market, the more potential money to be made, both locally and for TV deals. The more corporate wealth is in an area, the more money you make from sponsorships, and that's an area where Minneopolis-St. Paul punches well above its weight vs population. Atlanta, of course, is just a corporate juggernaut.

What's the argument beyond "we like hockey and want a team"? There's zero business case for it. It's simply not a major league market.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

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Jul 21, 2009
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Hamiltonians(and others outside of Toronto) would LOVE to have a team besides the Leafs to cheer for. I mean, we are talking about an automatic sell out, and a line up of advertisers to buy media time and boxes, which is more than you can say about many of the other locations being talked about. It's an easy sell, as opposed to Houston, Atlanta(two time losers), KC, and the like. Yes Houston has a large population, but only a fraction of them know or care about hockey. In Ontario, OTOH, it's #1.

It's such a no brainer. I get that you want to "grow the game", but for how much longer can you ignore a huge market that's already there, and would be an instant money maker?

Hamilton is absolutely the best spot to put a new team in Canada bar none. Its not close.

People want one in Quebec for nostalgic reasons but there are a multitude of reasons that it doesn't make sense to take a team. Super small city, low corporate support. Quebec taxes. And a city that barely speaks English. Loads of players won't want to go there especially if they have families.

The GTA can absolutely support another team. The only reason that makes any sense as to why it hasn't happened yet is the Maple Leafs blocking it.

The question is if those Hamiltonians and others outside of Toronto already give money to the NHL or not. If they do, the NHL doesn't gain anything by adding a second team and just diverting money from the Leafs or whichever teams those fans spend money on today. The other question is if Rogers is willing to pay significantly more on the next television rights deal just because Toronto got a 2nd team.

Filling another 15-20k seat building 42 times a night is absolutely additional revenue for the NHL.

And most of those new fans are going to want new swag with the new colours and logo. That's all money being spent that wasn't being spent before.
 

HuGort

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Jun 15, 2012
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The MSP metro area has 4.7 times the population of the Quebec metro area. The Atlanta metro area has nearly 8 times the population of the Quebec City metro area.

The bigger the market, the more potential money to be made, both locally and for TV deals. The more corporate wealth is in an area, the more money you make from sponsorships, and that's an area where Minneopolis-St. Paul punches well above its weight vs population. Atlanta, of course, is just a corporate juggernaut.

What's the argument beyond "we like hockey and want a team"? There's zero business case for it. It's simply not a major league market.
Passion for game. QC has same passion as Montreal. Montreal has largest local tv and radio money by country mile. There's not even a distance second.
 

AtlantaWhaler

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Jul 3, 2009
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I was considering creating a new thread, but decided to bump the last thread we had on Quebec.

Last time around I was pretty much on the side that they would never get another team. But in reading that Atlanta is being considered YET again.. I am no longer against Quebec getting another team.

With Atlanta I see a lot of spit balling that it was all the owners. Here is the thing. When they moved the last team to Canada.. there was not a lot out pouring of grief when the team left. I work in aviation and spent a lot of time down there over the years.

It seems to me the biggest reason why people want another team is they talk about population and stuff like that. Curious to know how many of those people actually spend time in the city? Atlanta fans of any sport are picky. Like many cities, if a team is winning the will come out but if a team sucks? Not so much.

I personally think it is time to consider Quebec for another team if Atlanta is under consideration
Atlanta fans are picky? Top-5 in MLB attendance, sets records for attendance with the MLS team, sold out season tickets for Falcons, near 100% for the shitty Hawks, UGA only 45 minutes away, US Soccer HQ here, and college football HOF here. Yeah… crazy picky
 

DJJones

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Nov 18, 2014
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Passion for game. QC has same passion as Montreal. Montreal has largest local tv and radio money by country mile. There's not even a distance second.
Montreal is like 4 or 5 times larger, has way more money and has solid corporate sponsors.

Quebec would be behind Winnipeg in all likelihood. And they wouldn't look at Winnipeg for expansion either now.
 
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frightenedinmatenum2

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Sep 30, 2023
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The only place in Canada that will ever get another team would be a second Toronto franchise. Things are completely different now from 15 or so years ago when Winnipeg got their team back. There is no league-wide benefit to putting another team in Canada because it does nothing to increase HRR over the baseline of what an American franchise might. The reason is, US TV rights fees for sports have gone through the roof in the last decade. The Canadian national deal is big money, but putting a team in Quebec City, or Saskatchewan, or Moncton will have a negligible effect on it. Where as, adding an American team in a major metro market that they have yet to penetrate will make a big difference on the national footprint that they can sell to broadcasters. Look at the recent TV deal as an example of this.

Putting a team in a Canadian city generally doesn't create as many new customer as putting a team in a territory that isn't already saturated. For example, Ottawa would have never gotten a team if the league wasn't run with short-term tunnel vision at the time, where their primary concern was the 50 million dollar fee, rather than any long-term business growth. If Ottawa never got the Senators, there is next to no chance they would ever get an NHL team because their territory would already be saturated with hockey fans, mostly Canadiens and Leafs fans. Where as, putting a team in Vegas created six figures plus worth of brand new fans.

A second GTA franchise would not only attract a massive franchise fee, it would give the Canadian broadcasters a reason to pay more for the national deal because there would be double the chance of a GTA team making the playoffs, and there would also be a chance for a GTA team to progress beyond the first round. Rogers lost their butts on the deal, partially because of Toronto's lack of playoff success. Being able to demonstrate that there is more than one team that can draw Canadians in the playoffs could help them sell a more expensive rights deal.
 
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BLONG7

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Hamiltonians(and others outside of Toronto) would LOVE to have a team besides the Leafs to cheer for. I mean, we are talking about an automatic sell out, and a line up of advertisers to buy media time and boxes, which is more than you can say about many of the other locations being talked about. It's an easy sell, as opposed to Houston, Atlanta(two time losers), KC, and the like. Yes Houston has a large population, but only a fraction of them know or care about hockey. In Ontario, OTOH, it's #1.

It's such a no brainer. I get that you want to "grow the game", but for how much longer can you ignore a huge market that's already there, and would be an instant money maker?
Leafs would not allow this to happen, or it probably already would have......it is a no brainer, but one of the top revenue producers in the league, would double down and veto this in a heartbeat.

Hamiltonians(and others outside of Toronto) would LOVE to have a team besides the Leafs to cheer for. I mean, we are talking about an automatic sell out, and a line up of advertisers to buy media time and boxes, which is more than you can say about many of the other locations being talked about. It's an easy sell, as opposed to Houston, Atlanta(two time losers), KC, and the like. Yes Houston has a large population, but only a fraction of them know or care about hockey. In Ontario, OTOH, it's #1.

It's such a no brainer. I get that you want to "grow the game", but for how much longer can you ignore a huge market that's already there, and would be an instant money maker?
Leafs would not allow this to happen, or it probably already would have......it is a no brainer, but one of the top revenue producers in the league, would double down and veto this in a heartbeat.
 

Salsero1

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Nov 10, 2022
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Minnesota didn't lose the North Stars because of lack of fans, corporate money or TV deals. The North Stars left because Norm Green was one of the biggest scum bags to ever own an NHL team.
They also almost went broke in the 70s an attendance was pretty abysmal in the late 80s-the move to Dallas. That would be unforgivable if Minneapolis was in Texas. This is why fans of sunbelt teams often have a very short fuse. Any problems are our (the fans) fault, but problems in a northern market are everything but the fans' fault.
 

Dickie Dunn

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They also almost went broke in the 70s an attendance was pretty abysmal in the late 80s-the move to Dallas. That would be unforgivable if Minneapolis was in Texas. This is why fans of sunbelt teams often have a very short fuse. Any problems are our (the fans) fault, but problems in a northern market are everything but the fans' fault.
The NHL itself almost went broke in the 70’s. Attendance was not abysmal. Are you from here or just trolling?
 

Salsero1

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Nov 10, 2022
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The NHL itself almost went broke in the 70’s. Attendance was not abysmal. Are you from here or just trolling?
Min1.png
Min2.png


Again, these numbers are not great. Folks would be frothing at the mouth if this was anywhere you don't have to shovel your driveway every day for half the year.

Edit: the numbers are not "not great" they're just a normal market behaving the way a normal market behaves. I hate how it gets used as an indictment against newer warm weather markets but gets excused away if it gets snowy.
 
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HuGo Sham

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multiple factors imo:
not enough of a corporate, sponsorship base.
A Canadian dollar worth 74 cents US (which it wasn't when Winnipeg reacquired its team).
Not enough of a TV market - not compared to places like Atlanta, Houston etc.
Owners not interested in dealing with Peladeau (even if he has been great as a CFL owner. I know, not comparable). Maybe if another owner with very, very deep pockets emerged.
I also don't believe Molson wants to share the huge bilingual, Quebec market with another team - despite what he says publicly.
Yes, the kings are playing in QC in a few weeks...even when habs offered to play there for free, but as time goes by I think Molson's banking on many nords fans, or their kids becoming Montreal fans someday.
 
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Dickie Dunn

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View attachment 909036View attachment 909037

Again, these numbers are not great. Folks would be frothing at the mouth if this was anywhere you don't have to shovel your driveway every day for half the year.

Edit: the numbers are not "not great" they're just a normal market behaving the way a normal market behaves. I hate how it gets used as an indictment against newer warm weather markets but gets excused away if it gets snowy.
Are you going to mention that the North Stars played in one of the smallest NHL arenas? Max crowd for a North Stars game was 14,400. Except for a couple economically down seasons I don’t see the pattern here you are trying to suggest.
 

LPHabsFan

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Because the people in the NHL head offices would rather chase expansion money (understandably so since it's not part of HRR) than have a middle of the pack revenue while still maintaining profitability team that won't bring their revenues down.

They also stupidly believe that Quebec is an already saturated market because they really don't know the market at all.

They're still chasing that National TV deal that will never come no matter how many southern/non traditional tv markets they add.

It's typical of American capitalism. Go for the quick money no matter how it comes.

The only legitimate reason they have is the whole PKP and current separation and language issues that have been going on for the past half dozen years that we know they're wary of.
 

Rob

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Feb 27, 2002
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From a nostalgic point I would love to see them back in Quebec. Those 80’s battles with Montreal were epic.

From a business point it just doesn’t make sense.
 
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Cas

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Jun 23, 2020
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Atlanta and Minnesota given 2nd chance. Quebec should have one too
If somebody showed up with a billion dollars in bribes expansion fees, the NHL would put a team on a disused oil rig in the Caribbean.

It's not about "second chances," its about money. Atlanta apparently has a prospective ownership group that is able and willing to pay the cost of joining the league and put together a viable business case. Quebec doesn't. It's just business.
 

norrisnick

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Apr 14, 2005
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Maybe I'm getting old and my memory is going but I count 1. Plus they never lost it in the salary cap era with cost certainty.
Not nearly old enough. The Hamilton Bulldogs used to be in Quebec over 100 years ago. Cost certainty is a league wide thing. Individual teams can and do still lose money hand over fist. See the no longer existing Coyotes. Quebec is a market that would struggle hitting the salary floor and stay solvent.
 

ffh

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Jul 16, 2016
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Not nearly old enough. The Hamilton Bulldogs used to be in Quebec over 100 years ago. Cost certainty is a league wide thing. Individual teams can and do still lose money hand over fist. See the no longer existing Coyotes. Quebec is a market that would struggle hitting the salary floor and stay solvent.
I beg to differ
 

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