Why Anže Kopitar should be front-runner for MVP

[a mangy Meowth]

What does Doughty have to do with Kopitar having 7 times the PK time that MacKinnon has?

It's more that Doughty controls play at even strength better than any Dman on the Avs and plays a lot with Kopi

He'd easily be our best Dman. His ability to break cycles and defend are things that we simply don't have yet on the Avs

 

[Bandit]

Do you realize that sports writers don't go to bed at 9 PM and typically watch west coast games, considering it's their job? No, you probably don't. And that wasn't my point anyways.

Just because Anson ****ing Carter complained once about a late game as a joke doesn't mean sports writers in the PHWA don't watch LA Kings games. Give me a break dude. It's an hour difference.

They actually do not stay up to watch west coast games. Regularly. I brought up NBC because it happened last night. Can't get a more recent example than that. Even the NHL does not update their own standings or their news stories for west coast games until the next morning frequently. But feel free to believe what you want. You'd should probably get irate about it though, and use lots of f***ing f***s because it makes your f***ing point... or not.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

But feel free to believe what you want.

You seem to be believing whatever you want as well, considering you absolutely have no idea what the PHWA chapters do in their own time and yet you make assumptions that they're either too lazy to DVR games or stay up and watch them, or that they conspire to screw Kings players out of trophies. And if you can't handle a few bleeped words, the internet might not be the place for you lol. Irate... xD

But please, by all means, if you have some evidence that they are avoiding the games, lay it out. I wouldn't mind admitting I'm wrong.

 

[kingsfan28]

Mac
Hall
Kuch
McDavid
Malkin

Anze's great and maybe if it was last year, he'd be up there, but it's a different season and the guys I listed are playing very well.

McDavid doesn't belong on anyone's list this season. He's been good, but on a bad non-playoff team.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

winner: mackinnon
kucherov and malkin

then kopitar and hall in my eyes.

Kopitair is probably having his best season ever and no one even knows it

 

[Bandit]

winner: mackinnon
kucherov and malkin

then kopitar and hall in my eyes.

Kopitair is probably having his best season ever and no one even knows it

Why no one? Everyone in Los Angeles that watches hockey knows it. Nobody ELSE knows it because, well...

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

Why no one? Everyone in Los Angeles that watches hockey knows it. Nobody ELSE knows it because, well...

i mean no one is talking about him, not a shot at LA, i know they have great fans.

I just mean he quietly is having an incredible year.

 

[Bandit]

i mean no one is talking about him, not a shot at LA, i know they have great fans.

I just mean he quietly is having an incredible year.

Oh I know, I'm not taking it personally, was more making a comment on the larger context of this discussion:

Bob McKenzie: "MacKinnon is the best player in the league this year"

Anze Kopidor: Never heard of him.

Nope, no bias whatsoever...

 

[Sol]

Kopitar should win it.

 

[Yamazaki]

I haven’t seen a player as good as Mackinnon this year and that includes McDavid. Mac should win the hart especially if the Avs get into the playoffs.

 

[Admiral Awesome]

The argument being made for Kopitar is the same one that was being made for Datsyuk years ago, but like it or not, the voters look at offensive numbers first and foremost.

 

[Telos]

Nice breakdown, but the subjective hockey awards are never given to a player merely because of statistical accomplishment. It is mainly just based off of feelings and popularity the players have with the few at the PHWA that have voting membership.

 

[Admiral Awesome]

Nice breakdown, but the subjective hockey awards are never given to a player merely because of statistical accomplishment. It is mainly just based off of feelings and popularity the players have with the few at the PHWA that have voting membership.

Yeah i mean there is some truth to that but that's the formula. You'd be hard pressed to find a Hart-winning forward who finished outside of the top 5 in scoring AND whose team finished outside of the top 5 in the standings.

 

[Dan Kelly]

in my opinion, Kopitar should absolutely be considered for the league's MVP, especially after having an off year last year.

 

[bathdog]

The argument being made for Kopitar is the same one that was being made for Datsyuk years ago, but like it or not, the voters look at offensive numbers first and foremost.

Yup. Doubt he wins the Hart regardless of how valuable and great he actually is. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't top5.

Kopitar playing in his 12 season (leading scorer in 10) for LA Kings is having his best season yet. He currently has 80 points (29 G 51 A) and has 29 point lead on the second LA kings scorer Drew Doughty (51 P). His most common linemates are Dustin Brown (48 P, third leading scorer) and Alex Iafallo (25 P, undrafted rookie). Their last season leading scorer(Jeff Carter) got injured in the start of this season in which he played only 16 games. Their second line center was most commonly Adrian Kempe (34 P).

He plays second most TOI/GP at 22:00, plays on average 2:14 of PK per game on second best PK in league, second best team in GA, he has 55 even strength points (5. in league, Kings are only 25 in PP/G opportunities), he has 47,7% OFF zone starts, while other Hart candidates are well over 55% (except Giroux 45.5% and Barkov 41.4%). Not only does he leads team by 29 points second best in league (Hall 31P lead), he also plays the role of third defender and is a top contender for Selke trophy. He might not be the most flashy player but he is the kind of player you win games and championships with. Kings are currently third in Pacific, if they qualify for playoffs he should be prime canditate for MVP.

Here is a comparison to other leading Hart trophy candidates :
(point and goal percentages for the top guys in the Hart race)

Malkin 37% 16.8%

Ovechkin 35% 19.4%

MacKinnon 38% 15.2%

Kucherov 35% 13.2%

Kopitar 39% 14%

Hall 36% 14.6%

Giroux 40% 12.5%

Wheeler 33% 7.6%

Barkov 34% 12%

McDavid 44% 16.8%

As a Kings fan I don't care about regular season awards. Let whoever on whatever overachieving team win the Hart or whatever. I hope Kopitar wins the Conn Smythe.

You wanna see a dangerously close, albeit (imo) slightly better version, of what Kopitar is currently doing?

Exactly a decade ago...

Zetterberg had 92 points (on pace for 101) in 07/08 which was his best season - Kopitar is currently on pace for 92 points.

Zetterberg played 22:04 TOI/GP (8th, but most ahead were all out offensive forwards) - Kopitar 22:00 (2nd).

Zetterberg played 2:09 of PK - Kopitar 2:14. (DET 8th 84.03% - LAK 2nd 83.83%, DET 1st 2.24 GA/GP - LAK 2nd 2.51 GA/GP)

Zetterberg had 55 ES PTS (on pace for 60) and finished 11th in league (on pace for 6th) - Kopitar currently has 55 ES PTS (5th).

Zetterberg finished 3rd in a relatively close Selke voting with a not unsubstantial amount of people feeling he was better strictly defensively than Datsyuk - Kopitar is also in contention for the Selke.

Zetterberg was not going to stand out in a flashy perspective with Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin in their heyday, let alone with Datsyuk on his own team - Kopitar isn't the most flashy player either.

Zetterberg 35.8% 16.7% (on arguably the best team post-lockout, while missing 8.5% of the GP) - Kopitar 39% 14%.

Zetterberg finished tied 6th in PTS and tied 5th in goals (despite 7 missed games) - Kopitar is currently tied 7th in PTS and tied 17th in goals.

Both of these players are the ones that doesn't garner close to the most attention in the league, but come crunch time, it's ones you want on your team.

How did he do in the Hart voting? Not so well, 10th with unsignificant support.

How did he do in the Smythe voting? Won it, in what I assume to be, a convincing manner.

No, I don't think Kopitar wins the Hart, or will really be close, but I do think he'll be a crucial part of any potential success Kings have in the playoffs.

 

[Ulysses31]

Dunno about the hart with mackinnon but kings are definitely a team iafallo

 

[Puck93]

Yup. Doubt he wins the Hart regardless of how valuable and great he actually is. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't top5.





You wanna see a dangerously close, albeit (imo) slightly better version, of what Kopitar is currently doing?

Exactly a decade ago...

Zetterberg had 92 points (on pace for 101) in 07/08 which was his best season - Kopitar is currently on pace for 92 points.

Zetterberg played 22:04 TOI/GP (8th, but most ahead were all out offensive forwards) - Kopitar 22:00 (2nd).

Zetterberg played 2:09 of PK - Kopitar 2:14. (DET 8th 84.03% - LAK 2nd 83.83%, DET 1st 2.24 GA/GP - LAK 2nd 2.51 GA/GP)

Zetterberg had 55 ES PTS (on pace for 60) and finished 11th in league (on pace for 6th) - Kopitar currently has 55 ES PTS (5th).

Zetterberg finished 3rd in a relatively close Selke voting with a not unsubstantial amount of people feeling he was better strictly defensively than Datsyuk - Kopitar is also in contention for the Selke.

Zetterberg was not going to stand out in a flashy perspective with Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin in their heyday, let alone with Datsyuk on his own team - Kopitar isn't the most flashy player either.

Zetterberg 35.8% 16.7% (on arguably the best team post-lockout, while missing 8.5% of the GP) - Kopitar 39% 14%.

Zetterberg finished tied 6th in PTS and tied 5th in goals (despite 7 missed games) - Kopitar is currently tied 7th in PTS and tied 17th in goals.

Both of these players are the ones that doesn't garner close to the most attention in the league, but come crunch time, it's ones you want on your team.

How did he do in the Hart voting? Not so well, 10th with unsignificant support.

How did he do in the Smythe voting? Won it, in what I assume to be, a convincing manner.

No, I don't think Kopitar wins the Hart, or will really be close, but I do think he'll be a crucial part of any potential success Kings have in the playoffs.

Thank you for your comment and comparison. I also think that defense is overlooked too much, but lately the trend is going towards playing 200 foot game, so i think voting could be different but not as much for Kopi to win Hart. I just wanted to highlight a player that is overlooked, because of reasons i don't understand. I'm probably biased, i'm coming from Slovenia same as Kopitar and have been big fan of his through his entire career. Cheers to you, Zetterberg is one hell of a player and hoping players like him and Kopi get the credit they deserve in regular season in the future.

 

[Machinehead]

Here's why he shouldn't: Nathan MacKinnon

Also why he shouldn't: Brad Marchand

 

[bsu]

Mac attack

 

[bathdog]

Thank you for your comment and comparison. I also think that defense is overlooked too much, but lately the trend is going towards playing 200 foot game, so i think voting could be different but not as much for Kopi to win Hart. I just wanted to highlight a player that is overlooked, because of reasons i don't understand. I'm probably biased, i'm coming from Slovenia same as Kopitar and have been big fan of his through his entire career. Cheers to you, Zetterberg is one hell of a player and hoping players like him and Kopi get the credit they deserve in regular season in the future.

Kopitar has been quietly performing without proper recognition forever. I think part of it is nationality, part of it him not posting huge totals as well as not standing out too much visually. But it's almost criminal to the extent Toews got hyped in comparison.

One could realistically make an argument he'd be their 1st choice for forward going into the playoffs this year. I wouldn't make it, but there also aren't many forwards I'd take above him.

 

[unicornpig]

while i dont think he will win, people arguing malkin LOL. crosby and kessel putting up 70 while kopitar has brown at 48. east coast fans are clueless.

 

[Empoleon8771]

while i dont think he will win, people arguing malkin LOL. crosby and kessel putting up 70 while kopitar has brown at 38. east coast fans are clueless.

It's almost like the Hart isn't awarded like that, and votes for the Hart are extremely correlated to point finishes and other awards. Wow!

The only people who are wrong when it comes to Malkin being in the Hart discussion are the people saying he's not in the Hart discussion.

 

[Ivan13]

Just for comparison, each of those 3 highest point line mate
Stamkos has 82 points
Rantanan has 74 points
Brown has 48 points


Mack has 11 more points than ratanan
Kuch has 9 more points than Stamkos
Kopitar has 32 more points than brown

that's pretty ridiculous, granted I still see Kucherov or mackinnon winning.... but I think kopitar should get 3rd at the very least(if he finishes the season with 90+ points) I also think Taylor Hall should be in the discussion too(he is 31 points ahead of anyone on his team)

How many games has Nate played? And in other threads people are calling Mikko a product of Nate, so which one is it? Seems the narrative shifts with the agenda.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bringing this from the Marchand thread:

2017: McDavid (won the Art Ross), Crosby (won the Richard), Bobrovsky (won the Vezina), Burns (won the Norris), Karlsson (2nd in the Norris)
2016: Kane (won the Art Ross), Crosby (finished the year really hot and was 3rd in points), Benn (2nd in points), Holtby (won the Vezina), Thornton (tied for 4th in points)
2015: Price (won the Vezina), Ovechkin (won the Richard), Tavares (2nd in points), Dubnyk (3rd in Vezina voting) and Crosby (3rd in points, 1st in PPG)
2014: Crosby (won the Art Ross), Getzlaf (2nd in points), Giroux (3rd in points), Varlamov (2nd in Vezina voting) and Bergeron (won the Selke)
2013: Ovechkin (won the Richard), Crosby (finished tied for 2nd in points in 12 less games), Tavares (carried a bad team to the playoffs), Toews (won the Selke), Bobrovsky (won the Vezina)
2012: Malkin (won the Art Ross), Stamkos (won the Richard), Lundqvist (won the Vezina), Giroux (3rd in points), Quick (2nd in Vezina voting)
2011: Perry (won the Richard), Sedin (won the Art Ross), St. Louis (2nd in points), Rinne (2nd in Vezina voting), Thomas (won the Vezina)
2010: Sedin (won the Art Ross), Ovechkin (2nd in both goals and points while missing a bunch of games), Crosby (won the Richard), Miller (won the Vezina), Bryzgalov (2nd in Vezina voting)
2009: Ovechkin (won the Richard), Malkin (won the Art Ross), Datsyuk (won the Selke and was 4th in points), Mason (won the Calder, 2nd in Vezina voting), Parise (5th in points)
2008: Ovechkin (won the Richard and Art Ross), Malkin (2nd in points), Iginla (3rd in goals on a bad team), Lidstrom (won the Norris), Brodeur (won the Vezina)

It seems pretty clear how the Hart is awarded, it's based on these criteria:

1. Be on a playoff team.
2. Win another major trophy (Vezina, Art Ross, Norris or Richard)
3. If you don't win another major trophy, finish at the top of the league in points.
4. Win a minor trophy (Selke mainly) or be a finalist for another major trophy.

The Hart has never been voted on based on team strength, or rather, no one has ever won based on team strength. I genuinely have no idea why people here insist that carrying a bad team or not having much support makes a player Hart worthy. The Hart has never been voted on that way. If you have to point to the rest of a team to support why player A deserves the Hart, then he doesn't deserve the Hart.

 

[Getzmonster]

Kopitar is in his 12th season already?! Man I'm old.

Good argument for Kopi, he deserves to be in the conversation, but it's MacKinnon's to lose for me at this point. It's unreal how he and his line line are carrying that team this season. Colorado has no business near the playoffs, I'm not sure you can honestly say that about most of the other teams with Hart candidates being discussed.