Why Anže Kopitar should be front-runner for MVP

[Martyros]

again, i have posted overwhelming data comparing the two. None of the stats listed indicated Kopitar is a better penalty killer than giroux. i don't know what more you want from me. Answer me this, what would i have to show you in order for you to come to the conclusion that Giourx is a better Pker than Kopitar. Please do not answer with 1. kopitar plays more minutes on pk, or 2 Selke. Those things give no indication on who is better.

I continue to learn new things from you. Thank you. the less you play on pk, the less chance of getting shot at, ergo increasing corsi stats = better pker. Also, winning selke doesn't mean you're a good defender. Love it. Sure, i can't back anything up; Giroux will be the best defender in the league to never lead their team in pk minutes and neither be nominated for the Selke.

 

[Machinehead]

Ah, here's the culprit

if you are done, then you are not a fan of stats. and facts

rieder, brown jokkinen, shore, toffoli and more have had better years pking for the kings. yes some of those players are not kings but when they were they are better. Guess how i came to this conclusion ....Stats.

Kopitar gives up a ton of corsi events on the pk, to a degree that he is hurting the kings on the pk. he s -.13 corsi rel % shorthanded. That is not good.

Kopitar gives up a ton of corsi events on the pk

corsi events on the pk

corsi pk

 

[King'sPawn]

Less words more numbers. Any opinion you give please have correlating data to support it.

So when was Giroux a full time PKer again? Last time he was top four among forwards on his team, it was several years ago.

Is Bergeron bad on the PK because his corsi rel on the PK is on the negative?

You're ignoring statistical evidence and saying people aren't presenting any. That's textbook trolling.

 

[Jtown]

Ah, here's the culprit

The NHL's Best Penalty Killers

but its so much more than just corsi. I've already posted the stats of each . Feel free to look

 

[Machinehead]

The NHL's Best Penalty Killers

but its so much more than just corsi. I've already posted the stats of each . Feel free to look

Outside of this article, I've never seen anyone consider these analytics to be reputable on special teams.

 

[Martyros]

The NHL's Best Penalty Killers

but its so much more than just corsi. I've already posted the stats of each . Feel free to look

Congrats, you got an article from a journalist. That's like taking advice from Larry Brooks.
I'm in the medical field. When I want to read articles about medicine and what is the best choice, i prefer to read from stats drawn by actual clinicians.....not journalists.

 

[Jtown]

So when was Giroux a full time PKer again? Last time he was top four among forwards on his team, it was several years ago.

Is Bergeron bad on the PK because his corsi rel on the PK is on the negative?

You're ignoring statistical evidence and saying people aren't presenting any. That's textbook trolling.

there is no statsical evidence to suggest that kopitar is a better penalty killer than giroux.

Corsi Against per 60 minutes (CA60	G 68.65 , K 104.84
Corsi Percentage (CF%)	G 21.51 , K 12.39
Scoring Chances Against per 60 minutes (SCA60)
Expected Goals Against (xGA60)	G 4.62, K 7
Actual Goals Against per 60 minutes (GA60)	G 6.58 , K 4.14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The last stat is the only one that can be used in any argument to suggest Kopitar isa better pker. However, that stat does not take into consideration any other player on the ice. the flyers have fielded the worst goal tending in the league this year shorthanded and can used as a good argument to explain this.

 

[Jtown]

Outside of this article, I've never seen anyone consider these analytics to be reputable on special teams.

ok, lets judge the two by the analytics you think are more indicative of successful pking.

 

[Martyros]

ok, lets judge the two by the analytics you think are more indicative of successful pking.

let's start by goals against on every 60 shots against or every 60 minutes played shorthanded.

 

[Jtown]

let's start by goals against on every 60 shots against or every 60 minutes played shorthanded.

that stat was already listed in that article and has already been addressed.

 

[Machinehead]

ok, lets judge the two by the analytics you think are more indicative of successful pking.

We don't really have good special teams analytics. What you're using are widely considered to be even strength analytics and you're just throwing them at the PK.

 

[Martyros]

that stat was already listed in that article and has already been addressed.

goals against for every such number of shot ATTEMPTS against? on the pk?

 

[Jtown]

We don't really have good special teams analytics. What you're using are widely considered to be even strength analytics and you're just throwing them at the PK.

ok no such thing as good pk analytics.
Then i guess this argument is moot.
The same concepts that occur at even strength occur during the pk.
Can you support this proof that there are no good special team analytics with an article?

if not i will take you at your word.

 

[Machinehead]

ok no such thing as good pk analytics.
Then i guess this argument is moot.
The same concepts that occur at even strength occur during the pk.
Can you support this proof that there are no good special team analytics with an article?

if not i will take you at your word.

There's no article written about it because it's obvious. It's like asking me to find an article on water being wet.

The corsi share on special teams is close to a 15/85 spread. It's a horrid sample to draw team analytics from, let alone individual analytics.

 

[King'sPawn]

there is no statsical evidence to suggest that kopitar is a better penalty killer than giroux.

Corsi Against per 60 minutes (CA60	G 68.65 , K 104.84
Corsi Percentage (CF%)	G 21.51 , K 12.39
Scoring Chances Against per 60 minutes (SCA60)
Expected Goals Against (xGA60)	G 4.62, K 7
Actual Goals Against per 60 minutes (GA60)	G 6.58 , K 4.14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The last stat is the only one that can be used in any argument to suggest Kopitar isa better pker. However, that stat does not take into consideration any other player on the ice. the flyers have fielded the worst goal tending in the league this year shorthanded and can used as a good argument to explain this.

So Giroux's actual goals against are worse than expected, and Kopitar's actual goals against are better than expected?

Even assuming these metrics are good at evaluating PK effectiveness, the actuals versus expected doesn't support your claim at all.

So is Toffoli a better PKer than Giroux?

 

[Jtown]

So Giroux's actual goals against are worse than expected, and Kopitar's actual goals against are better than expected?

Even assuming these metrics are good at evaluating PK effectiveness, the actuals versus expected doesn't support your claim at all.

So is Toffoli a better PKer than Giroux?

no what it does support is the flyers terrible goal tending. 10 percent save percentage less than the kings. The only metric that supports Kopitar is better is not a metric at all , but rather just hard data. hard data such a points, plus minus , and gaa . That hard data is not indicative of much, we live in an era of much better stats.

 

[Martyros]

Kopitar has given up 12 goals on 177 minutes of shorthanded time on ice. Giroux has given up 7 on 65 minutes time on ice. that's almost 3 times as much as time.....meanwhile if we were to have Giroux play those 177 minutes to match kopitar....expected goals against would be 19. Giroux would allow more goals against in 60 minutes as opposed to Kopitar. That is what matters. Add in your pathetic corsi stats and take into account of the shots attempted and it's even more impressive. Also, hard to have more shots against when the player takes offensive zone starts, of course they'll have better chances of getting shots on goal compared to a player that is relied upon for defensive zone starts.

 

[Jtown]

There's no article written about it because it's obvious. It's like asking me to find an article on water being wet.

The corsi share on special teams is close to a 15/85 spread. It's a horrid sample to draw team analytics from, let alone individual analytics.

So obvious, that you can't even prove it. I will you give ample time.

UCSB Science Line and here is an article discussing if water is wet or not

 

[Jtown]

Kopitar has given up 12 goals on 177 minutes of shorthanded time on ice. Giroux has given up 7 on 65 minutes time on ice. that's almost 3 times as much as time.....meanwhile if we were to have Giroux play those 177 minutes to match kopitar....expected goals against would be 19. Giroux would allow more goals against in 60 minutes as opposed to Kopitar. That is what matters. Add in your pathetic corsi stats and take into account of the shots attempted and it's even more impressive. Also, hard to have more shots against when the player takes offensive zone starts, of course they'll have better chances of getting shots on goal compared to a player that is relied upon for defensive zone starts.

How do you know that Giroux's zone starts on the pk are not because he generates a lot more shots for on the pk than kopi does. You don't

Not all goals are the same. If I judge a pker who has prime Dominik hasek vs a pker who has Michael leighton, want to venture a guess who will have the higher raw totals? The great thing about bout analytics is that it takes raw data and puts it into perspective.