Who would you like as the next GM?

[daveleaf]

If you fire your GM because he wanted an undeserved raise, and then turn around and have to offer an extortionate contract to pry another GM out from his current team, what was the point of that manoeuvre

Like if you go to Armstrong and offer him $4M, and he says, "I don't want to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for $4M," and then you offer him $6M and he says, "I want to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for $6M," you've just recreated the sequence that got Dubas fired. Armstrong is disqualified because he's not committed to the Leafs enough to manage them, as evidenced by him only conditionally wanting the job.

Different individual, different circumstances.

The issue with making a GM change at this stage is that someone new could come in and just play the "I need to assess what we have" card before making any big decisions ...

First of all part of the interview process would be to give their take on what they would do in the situation because time is the essence here. The person that says that will not get the gig.

 

[leafan11]

Totally off the board pick but Bobby Margarita?? Who else knows more about the players and the game than him ?

 

[Brobust]

His Eichel return wasn't bad though I will give him that, Tage Thompson was a great return

The problem I am struggling with and I believe is that Armstrong wants more autonomy and I believe shanahan will not allow that.

Tage Thompson was for O'Reilly. Widely trashed trade at the time and pure dumb luck for the Sabres that Thompson turned it around.

Eichel return was Tuch + Krebs. And it was the current GM who made that trade.

 

[Cor]

100% with you, seems Shanahan, as suspected, has no god damn clue how to assess a team's on-ice product and seems totally satisfied with the team and culture. It's incredibly surprising and upsetting.

I never thought I'd miss Dubas, but after his PC, I actually left that feeling strongly one of the core would be gone.

Another thing that I found interesting on Friedman’s podcast, is he said Dubas wasn’t trying to “push Shanahan” out, but rather he wanted to figure out a way to streamline the internal approval process as they were entering a summer with some big contract negotiations and big trade discussions and wanted to avoid delays in getting everyone to say yes and to help avoid leaks, etc.

It’s another hint that Dubas was planning to make a major change to the core.

FWIW, I think that still happens. I think the organization understands the entire big 4 won’t be back next year. A lot of talk about the players being too comfortable.

Apparently player exit interviews internally don’t go well, with some players being blunt of what happened.

The reckless speculation being guys like ROR/Schenn were blunt about the mindset of this team, more notably the core, versus their championship winning teams.

Which is sorta backed by Schenn’s comments in round 2 of it being about who cares about being there.

The issue with making a GM change at this stage is that someone new could come in and just play the "I need to assess what we have" card before making any big decisions ...

There’s no time for that in our situation lol

James Mirtle mentioned that whoever the new GM is will come in with a likely mandate that more than cosmetic changes are going to be made.

Friedman clarified today that’s what he meant when he said someone with “bite”. Leafs are looking for someone who is willing and able to deal with the major off-season the Leafs will have.

 

[The Iceman]

I don't want an average team, lol...that's not how to win a Cup.

if you are 200% better than average you win a Cup every 16 years.

People need to recognize progress and embrace it.

 

[FerrisRox]

The issue with making a GM change at this stage is that someone new could come in and just play the "I need to assess what we have" card before making any big decisions ...

Because of the realties of the contracts for Auston Matthews and William Nylander, that's not really an option. The clock is running on big decisions already.

 

[The Iceman]

Tage Thompson was for O'Reilly. Widely trashed trade at the time and pure dumb luck for the Sabres that Thompson turned it around.

Eichel return was Tuch + Krebs. And it was the current GM who made that trade.

with a 3rd round pick.

Buff also got a 1st (16 overall) and a 2nd

 

[BallardEra]

32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Hockey fans already know the name, but this is not the blog. From Sportsnet, 32 Thoughts: The Podcast with NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas is a weekly deep dive into the biggest news and interviews from the hockey world.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I'm not saying I endorse Trevling as the new General Manager, but the people in this thread pointing to Hubredeau's new contract like it's a huge blemish on Trevling's resume are either very short sighted or are only looking at stats and deciding Hubredeau is a dud. If you actually watched much of the Flames this year, I think you'd have a very different take.

Hubredeau's steep decline in points this year had *a lot* to do with Darryl Sutter. Hubredeau wasn't being used in a way to maximize his skillset. It doesn't matter if your general manager gives you a Lambourghini; if you decide to attach a plow to the front and use it to clear the driveway you're not using it properly and it's going to be very underwhelming.

I think Hubredeau will bounce back in a big way next year and will continue to have an excellent career for the Calgary Flames.

I think it is a blemish and a major one.

I always judge a GM based on the variables in front of him when a signing/trade takes place. Everything else is hindsight.

The sudden drop in points for Huberdeau is bad luck for Treliving. I can agree with that. Huberdeau is still in his prime, so he should have performed well before the extension kicked in. The fact he didn't is not a good look for Treliving's team-building skills chemistry-wise but perhaps Treliving wanted to remove Sutter and couldn't.

I can back him on that.

However, the real issue is signing Huberdeau in desperation without knowing how he fits into the team. Not only this, the extension begins as he exits his prime. At least, 5-6 seasons in his extension will be post-prime years. Plus, the contract is essentially buy-out proof and a real burden with the full NMC.

In comparison, at least Tavares was signed as a 27-year-old with 3-4 years of his prime left.

Treliving has made major mistakes as a GM with no vision and honestly shouldn't even be considered for this position. It will be a real shame if this is the direction Shanny goes in.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think it is a blemish and a major one.

I always judge a GM based on the variables in front of him when a signing/trade takes place. Everything else is hindsight.

The sudden drop in points for Huberdeau is bad luck for Treliving. I can agree with that. Huberdeau is still in his prime, so he should have performed well before the extension kicked in. The fact he didn't is not a good look for Treliving's team-building skills chemistry-wise but perhaps Treliving wanted to remove Sutter and couldn't.

I can back him on that.

However, the real issue is signing Huberdeau in desperation without knowing how he fits into the team. Not only this, the extension begins as he exits his prime. At least, 5-6 seasons in his extension will be post-prime years. Plus, the contract is essentially buy-out proof and a real burden with the full NMC.

In comparison, at least Tavares was signed as a 27-year-old with 3-4 years of his prime left.

Treliving has made major mistakes as a GM with no vision and honestly shouldn't even be considered for this position. It will be a real shame if this is the direction Shanny goes in.

I don't think the Tkachuk trade should define Trelivings entire career just like Dubas won't be defined by how he handled the Kadri trade. That goes for a lot of the other GMs really.

Leafs won't be able to find anyone to hire if they have that level of open mindedness. You have to look at more than just a recent trade or a recent signing.

 

[ToneDog]

I think it is a blemish and a major one.

I always judge a GM based on the variables in front of him when a signing/trade takes place. Everything else is hindsight.

The sudden drop in points for Huberdeau is bad luck for Treliving. I can agree with that. Huberdeau is still in his prime, so he should have performed well before the extension kicked in. The fact he didn't is not a good look for Treliving's team-building skills chemistry-wise but perhaps Treliving wanted to remove Sutter and couldn't.

I can back him on that.

However, the real issue is signing Huberdeau in desperation without knowing how he fits into the team. Not only this, the extension begins as he exits his prime. At least, 5-6 seasons in his extension will be post-prime years. Plus, the contract is essentially buy-out proof and a real burden with the full NMC.

In comparison, at least Tavares was signed as a 27-year-old with 3-4 years of his prime left.

Treliving has made major mistakes as a GM with no vision and honestly shouldn't even be considered for this position. It will be a real shame if this is the direction Shanny goes in.

In his defense Calgary is not a favourite destination for players. Gotta overpay to get pending UFAs and UFAs to sign there. He'd also look pretty silly if he had nothing left to show for the Tkachuk trade other than the 1st.

 

[Brobust]

In his defense Calgary is not a favourite destination for players. Gotta overpay to get pending UFAs and UFAs to sign there. He'd also look pretty silly if he had nothing left to show for the Tkachuk trade other than the 1st.

Based on what I read.

The Blues had a horrid low ball offer based around Tarasenko.

The Canes centred their deal around Necas + picks.

Florida offered what they did.

There's logic to Treliving's choice, but he chose wrong. The team would be set up much better with Necas. But we wouldn't have thought so 12 months ago.

 

[jaric1862]

I really hope the leafs can find a way to get Doug Armstrong.

 

[leafan11]

I really hope the leafs can find a way to get Doug Armstrong.

I don’t think that name was floated by accident , hoping there’s some smoke around it

 

[SprDaVE]

I really hope the leafs can find a way to get Doug Armstrong.

I don’t think that name was floated by accident , hoping there’s some smoke around it

Agreed. More than 1 insider brought up his name without being prompted. Very similar to the Burke and Lamoriello smoke from years ago.

They've all said there aren't any indications that the Leafs asked or that Armstrong showed interest.... yet. But it's how it starts, through the media.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I don't think the Tkachuk trade should define Trelivings entire career just like Dubas won't be defined by how he handled the Kadri trade. That goes for a lot of the other GMs really.

Leafs won't be able to find anyone to hire if they have that level of open mindedness. You have to look at more than just a recent trade or a recent signing.

I agree one decision is not the end of the world but a lot of things work against Treliving.

1. Calgary itself never went past the 2nd round in his tenure
2. Huberdeau signing (including how the deal is structured)
3. Kadri signing
4. Letting Gaudreau walk
5. James Neal signing

At least when you go for experience, the GM should be a proven winner. It's a bare minimum.

Yes, we can point to specific circumstances such as Sutter or Calgary as a destination but that's hardly convincing when hiring a GM. All Treliving has is experience and I don't think it paints a good picture.

Treliving seems like a lottery ticket where it might hit or it will all go to zero. The only guy with experience that's a serious upgrade would be McPhee and he's not coming.

I think Shanahan needs to cast a wide net and look at assistant GMs with experience. The guys I prefer like Tulsky/Darche have 4-5 years of experience but I'm sure there are other names out there with more experience. I would sit down with all of these candidates and hear their vision to see how it fits with the existing setup.

 

[hockeywiz542]

SIMMONS: With turmoil with Leafs, Raptors and TFC, these are troubling times for MLSE

These are not the best of times for the presidents who occupy top billing with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

torontosun.com

Leiweke spent and the Leafs started winning and the Raptors started winning and Toronto FC won an MLS championship (and probably should have won three). And when Larry Tanenbaum and others at MLSE couldn’t deal with Leiweke anymore — he is a handful and then some — they mutually agreed to part ways from each other.

But a culture was built around winning — and utilizing financial power to win and accomplish what others could not.

Shanahan has had a rather remarkable nine-year run as president of the Leafs, all that in spite of what hasn’t happened in the playoffs. When he first took over the job, he was clear about one thing: These are the Maple Leafs, they deserve the best.

So when he needed a coach, he went out and overpaid for Mike Babcock, who was coming off two Olympic gold medals and a Stanley Cup win in Detroit. And when he needed a general manager, he went out and recruited his former mentor, Lou Lamoriello, already in the Hockey Hall of Fame, and brought him to Toronto. In between, he scouted across junior hockey and identified three people he wanted to hire: Kyle Dubas, Mark Hunter and Kelly McCrimmon.

He got two of them.

Dubas became his general manager. McCrimmon became general manager in Vegas. Hunter, after the Dubas appointment, returned to London, Ont., as general manager.

Now Shanahan is under the gun. He pushed Dubas out. His special assistant, Jason Spezza, chose to walk with him. The Leafs’ front office is thinner than it has been since the time Shanahan arrived. The new general manager may need a coach — his call, I suppose — who will need a new staff. That’s a lot of movement for a team with the fifth-best record in the NHL this season and facing huge decisions about the futures of Auston Matthews and William Nylander.

Is there a Lamoriello out there? The Edmonton Oilers went in that direction in hiring Ken Holland, who has had slightly more success than Dubas, with Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl in his stable. Are there any other legendary general managers hanging around the NHL right now? Most of them are faceless former players like Don Sweeney or Jim Nill. Some are former stars like Steve Yzerman or Ron Francis or Rob Blake or Joe Sakic. Two-thirds of the NHL GMs played professional hockey. But some of the best — Julien BriseBois in Tampa, McCrimmon, Doug Armstrong — did not.

The challenge for Shanahan now is to keep to his original plan: How do you identify the best, with very little time, with so much at stake? The best GM in today’s NHL is arguably Boston’s Don Sweeney.

The days of the NHL being occupied by power players such as Harry Sinden, Glen Sather, Cliff Fletcher and Bill Torrey are no more. You can’t go and steal a Fletcher the way the Leafs managed in 1991. Or maybe you can.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Tage Thompson was for O'Reilly. Widely trashed trade at the time and pure dumb luck for the Sabres that Thompson turned it around.

Eichel return was Tuch + Krebs. And it was the current GM who made that trade.

Ah yes you are right Eichel was traded by the Latter!

Regardless dumbluck or not it was fruitful. Still not my front runner at all and not who I would want

I don’t think that name was floated by accident , hoping there’s some smoke around it

Armstrong is also known to be loved by the boards/owners of the Blues and it's mutual. Similar to the Poile situation in Nashville. Unless the big-ups allow it along with Armstrong openly saying it...I don't see it happening. Also like us, they are in a pretty critical time to do a retool after shedding so many core players/components that were remnants from their cup run. With a draft that's said to be very deep.

 

[SprDaVE]

I agree one decision is not the end of the world but a lot of things work against Treliving.

1. Calgary itself never went past the 2nd round in his tenure
2. Huberdeau signing (including how the deal is structured)
3. Kadri signing
4. Letting Gaudreau walk
5. James Neal signing

At least when you go for experience, the GM should be a proven winner. It's a bare minimum.

Yes, we can point to specific circumstances such as Sutter or Calgary as a destination but that's hardly convincing when hiring a GM. All Treliving has is experience and I don't think it paints a good picture.

Treliving seems like a lottery ticket where it might hit or it will all go to zero. The only guy with experience that's a serious upgrade would be McPhee and he's not coming.

I think Shanahan needs to cast a wide net and look at assistant GMs with experience. The guys I prefer like Tulsky/Darche have 4-5 years of experience but I'm sure there are other names out there with more experience. I would sit down with all of these candidates and hear their vision to see how it fits with the existing setup.

The lack of success is definitely the one big stain on his Flames tenure. The Huberdeau extension was rough but Weegar was a great get and Kadri is more than fine at 7M. Letting a UFA walk shouldn't be held against him when they offered everything at the player and they were contenders. If we're bringing up the bad in his time with the Flames, it's only fair we have to look at the good things he did and a lot of what's good there is because of him.

Tulsky and Darche have very little to no front office experience. It's easy to say they are better than Treliving because there's no track record other than being part of successful franchises... but that's not really a guarantee. Botterill went from Pittsburgh and highly touted as an excellent AGM with a ton of promise to Buffalo and out the door in 3 years.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

The lack of success is definitely the one big stain on his Flames tenure. The Huberdeau extension was rough but Weegar was a good get and Kadri is more than fine at 7M. Letting a UFA walk shouldn't be held against him when they offered everything at the player and they were contenders. If we're bringing up the bad in his time with the Flames, it's only fair we have to look at the good things he did and a lot of what's good there is because of him.

Tulsky and Darche have very little to no front office experience. It's easy to say they are better than Treliving because there's no track record other than being part of successful franchises... but that's not really a guarantee. Botterill went from Pittsburgh and highly touted as an excellent builder and AGM to Buffalo and out the door in 3 years.

The only reason I kind of empathize with Treliving even though it has been rough for the guy is, the meddling of the ownership in Calgary. The worst by far was he literally stated hey I want Sutter gone...they instead chose to fire him. Only a couple of weeks later...they fired Sutter anyways after all the exit interviews clearly echoed what Treliving said all along. Mind you it's not bad as the Aqualini level of meddling who would legit come and yell but still can't blame the guy too much either with that much nuisance around.

The problem here would be how the dynamic works and the autonomy that is required for the GM role compared to what dubas had.

 

[SprDaVE]

LeBrun released an article and he also brought up Doug Armstrong as a candidate. There's belief that Armstrong would love to work for a Canadian team, thus why his name is coming up strong.

The Blues GM certainly checks all the boxes as far as experience and a Cup ring — not to mention the kind of confidence and wherewithal to withstand the pressure-packed demands of the Toronto market.

For starters, I do not believe Armstrong has an actual “out” in his contract with the Blues. He signed a five-year extension in September 2021 that runs through the 2025-26 season.

But I also think Armstrong has the kind of strong relationship with Blues owner Tom Stillman that if the Maple Leafs approached Stillman about it, maybe he would be OK with it if it’s something that Armstrong really wanted. Maybe, maybe not. Pretty hard to know exactly how Stillman would react.

Treliving named as the obvious and favourite based on what we know.

LeBrun: Rumblings on the Maple Leafs' GM search, with new names and priorities emerging

If Brendan Shanahan is looking for an experienced candidate, is Brad Treliving the front-runner? Could Doug Armstrong be in the mix?

theathletic.com

 

[Leaf Rocket]

LeBrun released an article and he also brought up Doug Armstrong as a candidate. There's belief that Armstrong would love to work for a Canadian team, thus why his name is coming up strong.



Treliving named as the obvious and favourite based on what we know.

LeBrun: Rumblings on the Maple Leafs' GM search, with new names and priorities emerging

If Brendan Shanahan is looking for an experienced candidate, is Brad Treliving the front-runner? Could Doug Armstrong be in the mix?

theathletic.com

Basically we got pray... Armstrong says hey man I love you but lemme go back where I grew up and help them.

 

[ToneDog]

Based on what I read.

The Blues had a horrid low ball offer based around Tarasenko.

The Canes centred their deal around Necas + picks.

Florida offered what they did.

There's logic to Treliving's choice, but he chose wrong. The team would be set up much better with Necas. But we wouldn't have thought so 12 months ago.

Gonna come done to whether Hubie can get back to the 100+ point player he was. They also got Weager and a 1st. Not a bad package for a guy who wanted out if the new coach can ignite Hubie again.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Gonna come done to whether Hubie can get back to the 100+ point player he was. They also got Weager and a 1st. Not a bad package for a guy who wanted out if the new coach can ignite Hubie again.

I don't know if he'll reach that point again but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a rebound. He's a pretty awesome talent and im sure one their main prospects also being a seadog alum will enjoy his guidance

 

[Eternal Leaf]

The lack of success is definitely the one big stain on his Flames tenure. The Huberdeau extension was rough but Weegar was a great get and Kadri is more than fine at 7M. Letting a UFA walk shouldn't be held against him when they offered everything at the player and they were contenders. If we're bringing up the bad in his time with the Flames, it's only fair we have to look at the good things he did and a lot of what's good there is because of him.

Tulsky and Darche have very little to no front office experience. It's easy to say they are better than Treliving because there's no track record other than being part of successful franchises... but that's not really a guarantee. Botterill went from Pittsburgh and highly touted as an excellent AGM with a ton of promise to Buffalo and out the door in 3 years.

Yeah, Treliving has done good work too. I won't discredit him too much.

Shanahan is in a tough spot right now even though it's his fault in the first place. With the candidates that are out there, I think he needs 1-2 months to decide but there's no time to wait.

All of the options whether it's Treliving, Tulsky, Darche, or anyone else come with question marks. It's unfortunate a coveted GM position (maybe the most coveted) is going to get handed out like candy due to the time constraint.