Who would you like as the next GM?

[BallardEra]

More grim news from Friedman:

"He also says guys like George McPhee and Doug Armstrong aren’t coming to Toronto with its current structure (i.e. Shanahan above them)

Also someone who, according to Elliotte, fits the description that the Leafs are looking for as the next GM told him he wouldn’t be interested in the job because Shanahan’s presser felt like “airing dirty laundry”

Well now, the guys who wanted Dubas gone just found out why our talent pool of available GMs is currently made up of:

A guy that built a team and yo-yos in and out of the playoffs every other year

A guy that needed a once in a century pandemic just to make the playoffs

A guy who in 2014 did not know you could retain salary on trades.

Given the options, I'd say just to go with Treliving and be done with it.

"Brian Burke, come on down!!!"

 

[Da Mash]

It’s called intensity and competitiveness. You are wondering why the most competitive people in the world who work their whole lives to get to this moment step it up a bit in the playoffs? I’d do whatever it took if it was me.

I can remember getting hyped for the OFSA championship back in the day or the city gta finals back in the highschool days a lot more than I did beating up Lakeshore collegiate 15-0 at pinepoint arena .l during reg season. Playing in the nhl playoffs is like nothing else.

I guess when you played the rules were consistent.?
So you see goons run guys …stick work…punches after the whistle, body slams and during the game and it’s called intensity?

I also played a lot of hockey and college ball and yes you want to win a championship but the rules stay the same. Didn’t they?

We constantly make it’s seems throwing cheap shots …punching guys on the ice ….body slams etc is the intensity of playoffs ….yet it’s against the rules. Impending a player route to get to a puck shot is interference….is it not? But in playoffs the D push up and interfere and now that is playoff hockey?

We get fooled in looking at players eyes like gilmour and tucker and say to ourselves… “what heart and what intensity” and we do the opposite for a player like a stoic Sundin….

I mean look at Nylander…fans constantly bash him because his body language isn’t what you think it should be

And we have no idea

These kids train and work damn hard to get to the NHL and now we look at them and say they have no heart? or intensity because it doesn’t measure up to what you THINK it should be?

What has caused our failures since 67? Was Clarke and Gilmour and Robert’s ,Domi …etc not up to your standards of intensity? They won crap here. Was it the non high stick by “the great one “ a factor?

Nope can’t be the refs that dictate the game and have a blind eye that sets the tone of the game. Don’t they “manage” the game ?

Nope the great players have to adapt and show more of this “heart” or intensity while the goons can sharpen their sticks and elbow pads.

I do love playoff hockey but no other sport makes a excuse like “it’s NFL playoffs” or “it’s NBA playoffs” to justify the rules being changed or ignored.

Sorry but it makes no sense to me. We just accept it because “that’s the way the nhl playoffs have always been” ?

I’m still shocked they call icing in the playoffs….let them hammer each other ….MMA style and then call it “playoff hockey” while the Stars of the game are called gutless and have no “heart” or “intensity”

Only sport that changes or ignores their rules in playoffs……The only one.

BTW….isn’t Olympic and International hockey great too? Bigger ice…great hockey….more skating and passing…etc

I guess most playing in those games have no heart and intensity…..can’t be……I see no goons there.

Weird how that is….

 

[FerrisRox]

You could do worse... My main hope would be that he's learned from Gaudreau walking and on trying to bandaid things together with highly questionable contracts (ie Kadri/Huberdeau).

I'm not saying I endorse Trevling as the new General Manager, but the people in this thread pointing to Hubredeau's new contract like it's a huge blemish on Trevling's resume are either very short sighted or are only looking at stats and deciding Hubredeau is a dud. If you actually watched much of the Flames this year, I think you'd have a very different take.

Hubredeau's steep decline in points this year had *a lot* to do with Darryl Sutter. Hubredeau wasn't being used in a way to maximize his skillset. It doesn't matter if your general manager gives you a Lambourghini; if you decide to attach a plow to the front and use it to clear the driveway you're not using it properly and it's going to be very underwhelming.

I think Hubredeau will bounce back in a big way next year and will continue to have an excellent career for the Calgary Flames.

 

[Albz]

Ownership will always be involved in organizational decisions of consequence.

I see lots of people blaming Shanahan, but it sounds like he went to bat for Dubas with ownership for a renewal multiple times. It doesn’t sound like ownership were completely convinced, if they were, they would have locked Dubas up last summer. So I think when Dubas called into question his commitment to returning in public, then only a few days later, to respond by asking for more money as well organizational changes, it wouldn’t surprise me if Shanahan knew he couldn’t sell that to the ownership group even if he wanted to.

In a corporate structure, Shanahan is the spokesperson for the company, but he did not make the decision to not renew Dubas solely. This decision was clearly and logically an organizational decision. Shanahan being the good corporate employee, insulated he board, by framing this decision as his after he “slept on it” but the missing detail was that ownership had a change of heart.

100% agree. I also feel like shanny had a change of heart after the whole monday situation.

 

[TMLAM34]

How can you bring someone back that apparently is questioning even coming back? We’re talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs not the Newfoundland Growlers. People would do anything to be the GM here.

 

[7even]

I think we underestimate the amount of money that can change minds for what they are offering. Lamoriello of all people was convinced to move on from the Devils to GM the Leafs under Shanahan. I don't think the Presidents job is one that overly matters and if anything, it frees up the person to do hockey related work and the President handles the board. Doing both can suck at the Leafs level.

It's possible a team like the Blues want to make a change in what appears to be a retool/rebuild of their core. Maybe Armstrong see's the writing on the wall and both would welcome a change, which opens the door for the Leafs. Maybe. I dunno. Strickland seems to think Armstrong has zero reasons to leave nor does he want to leave the Blues.

If you fire your GM because he wanted an undeserved raise, and then turn around and have to offer an extortionate contract to pry another GM out from his current team, what was the point of that manoeuvre

Like if you go to Armstrong and offer him $4M, and he says, "I don't want to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for $4M," and then you offer him $6M and he says, "I want to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for $6M," you've just recreated the sequence that got Dubas fired. Armstrong is disqualified because he's not committed to the Leafs enough to manage them, as evidenced by him only conditionally wanting the job.

 

[SprDaVE]

If you fire your GM because he wanted an undeserved raise, and then turn around and have to offer an extortionate contract to pry another GM out from his current team, what was the point of that manoeuvre

Like if you go to Armstrong and offer him $4M, and he says, "I don't want to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for $4M," and then you offer him $6M and he says, "I want to be the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs for $6M," you've just recreated the sequence that got Dubas fired. Armstrong is disqualified because he's not committed to the Leafs enough to manage them.

Money wasn't really the main reason Dubas was removed though. I see what you're saying and I would assume that if there's any chance for Armstrong to be poached that those concerns would be removed after a discussion. Obviously if Armstrong doesn't want to move on, more money won't really change the issue.

 

[scout20]

Ray Shero GM
Gallant coach

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[thewave]

Oh yeah Bergevin another Habs 4Lifer like Dubas, or was Dubas a Sens fan. Anyways, not interested.

 

[Amadeus]

I've secretly liked Marc Bergevin all along. He definitely has bite and isn't afraid to make bold moves.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I've secretly liked Marc Bergevin all along. He definitely has bite and isn't afraid to make bold moves.

Trading Sergachev for Drouin (trust me I watched him when he was in the Q and was hyped for it but even then I knew this was a bad call) is about rask level shit.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

I've secretly liked Marc Bergevin all along. He definitely has bite and isn't afraid to make bold moves.

Actually agree, he’s made some big bold moves, some of which like Subban got a ton of hate at the time but it paid off in spades

I’m upset that Friedman threw a pool of cold water on McPhee, which I guess was expected

 

[SprDaVE]

Ray Shero GM
Gallant coach

You could do worse than Ray Shero I think. He's the one that signed Crosby and Malkin to long-term contracts on multiple occasions, and also a bunch of other good players. Quite a few of the Devil players right now were drafted or brought in by him.

Most of his signings in New Jersey and Pittsburgh were pretty good for the most part. His trades also seem ok like any other GM really. His drafting seems pretty bad from 2006 to 2020 bettween Pittsburgh and New Jersey though.

If we want experience and someone that's available, he could and should be on the list I think.

 

[Trapper]

Trading Sergachev for Drouin (trust me I watched him when he was in the Q and was hyped for it but even then I knew this was a bad call) is about rask level shit.

Then we probably get Michel Therrien as the next coach.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Super depressing. I want someone with big cachet and big time moves/contract negotiations experience. This is literally the most important/impactful offseason since Matthews lottery, we cannot have some bean counter like Pridham or a Futa whose been a bridesmaid for 10 years or Hunter who hasn’t run trades or contracts for an NHL team

 

[Brobust]

I don't know who exactly is responsible for this but a large segment of the fanbase has been cowed by a roster of players who have done nothing of significance in their time here. We can't even enjoy a regular season because of their failures.

And now we're supposed to worried about the potential break up of the team? Good. Break up the team. I'm fatigued and I don't care if they take two steps back as long as the new management is smart enough to use this team's resources to rebuild well.

 

[LaPlante94]

Read somewhere yesterday that when we fired Nonis I believe we went into the draft with just Shanahan and both Hunter and Dubas as AGM and a newly hired Pridham. Makes me think we might not exactly be in the rush some may think especially when 1 of the targets a lot of people want is still in the playoffs.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Then we probably get Michel Therrien as the next coach.

 

[tmlfan98]

(Leafs talk from 6:15 to 21:15, and 29:15 to 33:20)

CJ mentioned 3 candidates on his latest pod that he thinks will get a look:

-Brad Treliving (called him the favourite heading into the interview process)
-Jason Botterill
-Doug Armstrong (if it's even possible, but he's heard his name going around)

After those first 3 names he brought up he quickly spitballed some other names, but it seemed more like him just naming available guys with GM experience off the top of his head. The first 3 names were mentioned in more of a "I've heard these names being discussed among hockey people" type of way.

I'm not sure if anyone other insiders have mentioned this yet, but another thing he said he heard is that the Core 4 all seem to be under the impression after speaking with Shanahan following Dubas getting let go, that they will all be back next season.

I'm starting to wonder if Shanahan will only hire someone who commits to keeping the Core 4 together, and I'm also starting to wonder if something else that alarmed Shanahan from Dubas' presser that he chose not to outright mention when he spoke Friday, was the fact that Dubas wouldn't commit to bringing the Core 4 back next season.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

(Leafs talk from 6:15 to 21:15, and 29:15 to 33:20)

CJ mentioned 3 candidates on his latest pod that he thinks will get a look:

-Brad Treliving (called him the favourite heading into the interview process)
-Jason Botterill
-Doug Armstrong (if it's even possible, but he's heard his name going around)

After those first 3 names he brought up he quickly spitballed some other names, but it seemed more like him just naming available guys with GM experience off the top of his head. The first 3 names were mentioned in more of a "I've heard these names being discussed among hockey people" type of way.

I'm not sure if anyone other insiders have mentioned this yet, but another thing he said he heard is that the Core 4 all seem to be under the impression after speaking with Shanahan following Dubas getting let go, that they will all be back next season.

I'm starting to wonder if Shanahan will only hire someone who commits to keeping the Core 4 together, and I'm also starting to wonder if something else that alarmed Shanahan from Dubas' presser that he chose not to outright mention when he spoke Friday, was the fact that Dubas wouldn't commit to bringing the Core 4 back next season.

100% with you, seems Shanahan, as suspected, has no god damn clue how to assess a team's on-ice product and seems totally satisfied with the team and culture. It's incredibly surprising and upsetting.

I never thought I'd miss Dubas, but after his PC, I actually left that feeling strongly one of the core would be gone.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

To bad about Armstrong. Was always probably a long shot.

 

[SprDaVE]

(Leafs talk from 6:15 to 21:15, and 29:15 to 33:20)

CJ mentioned 3 candidates on his latest pod that he thinks will get a look:

-Brad Treliving (called him the favourite heading into the interview process)
-Jason Botterill
-Doug Armstrong (if it's even possible, but he's heard his name going around)

After those first 3 names he brought up he quickly spitballed some other names, but it seemed more like him just naming available guys with GM experience off the top of his head. The first 3 names were mentioned in more of a "I've heard these names being discussed among hockey people" type of way.

I'm not sure if anyone other insiders have mentioned this yet, but another thing he said he heard is that the Core 4 all seem to be under the impression after speaking with Shanahan following Dubas getting let go, that they will all be back next season.

I'm starting to wonder if Shanahan will only hire someone who commits to keeping the Core 4 together, and I'm also starting to wonder if something else that alarmed Shanahan from Dubas' presser that he chose not to outright mention when he spoke Friday, was the fact that Dubas wouldn't commit to bringing the Core 4 back next season.

Jason Botterill seems super awful to me but he did have a lot of fanfare before he got his shot with Buffalo. A lot of his signings were bad, like Skinner at 9M per season. Not much at the draft either other than the obvious ones. The body of work is relatively small and he did get them Thompson and a few other players that are now flourishing.

Armstrong would be huge. Treliving would probably be fine.

Johnston did say Pridham is likely to stick around with the new GM as well.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

"Brian Burke, come on down!!!"

Jason Botterill seems super awful to me but he did have a lot of fanfare before he got his shot with Buffalo. A lot of his signings were bad, like Skinner at 9M per season. Not much at the draft either. The body of work is relatively small but I am not impressed at all.

Armstrong would be huge. Treliving would probably be fine.

His Eichel return wasn't bad though I will give him that, Tage Thompson was a great return

The problem I am struggling with and I believe is that Armstrong wants more autonomy and I believe shanahan will not allow that.

 

[thinkblue]

100% with you, seems Shanahan, as suspected, has no god damn clue how to assess a team's on-ice product and seems totally satisfied with the team and culture. It's incredibly surprising and upsetting.

I never thought I'd miss Dubas, but after his PC, I actually left that feeling strongly one of the core would be gone.

The issue with making a GM change at this stage is that someone new could come in and just play the "I need to assess what we have" card before making any big decisions ...