Who will have the longer NHL legacy? Ovi vs Sid

[FrankSidebottom]

Yes let's cherry pick one single stat and not the entire résumé.

QMJHL, world junior, world cup, world championship, Olympic golds, Stanley cups, Hart trophies, Ted Lindsey, Rocket Richard, Conn Smythes, Art Ross trophies, world cup MVP, etc etc.​

​

Throw in 18 straight years above a point per game.​

Never mind the point you seem to miss, is that it isn't fantasy hockey, where simply copy and pasting stats explains everything.

One guy literally can be put in any situation and do what is required to win. One guy can float, take a slap shot, and throw a big hit every now and then.

You'll always have to make excuses for the losing.

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Ovechkin individual trophy case is better, he has more Harts, way more Richards, the same number of deserved Conn Smythes. The rest is irrelevant bullsh** like QMJHL or the consequence of him being Canadian and having Malkin, Letang etc

 

[EdJovanovski]

Ovi AINEC

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Ovechkin individual trophy case is better, he has more Harts, way more Richards, the same number of deserved Conn Smythes. The rest is irrelevant bullsh** like QMJHL or the consequence of him being Canadian and having Malkin, Letang etc

So every legacy accolade Ovi has that compares to Sid matters a lot, but any legacy accolade Ovi doesn't have is "irrelevant bullshit"?


I voted for Ovi having the longer legacy because he'll probably break the all-time goals record and hold it for the foreseeable future, but your arguments here are just head-scratching.

 

[FrankSidebottom]

So every legacy accolade Ovi has that compares to Sid matters a lot, but any legacy accolade Ovi doesn't have is "irrelevant bullshit"?


I voted for Ovi having the longer legacy because he'll probably break the all-time goals record and hold it for the foreseeable future, but your arguments here are just head-scratching.

What exactly legacy do QMJHL or World Championship held for Crosby?

 

[Rodgerwilco]

What exactly legacy do QMJHL or World Championship held for Crosby?

Just another couple notches in his belt that points to his long-time habit of dominance and winning. Obviously playing for Canada is beneficial for him, but that doesn't make his Golden goal or all his gold medals worth nothing.

As for the Q, apparently they thought he had quite a legacy in their league, considering they retired his number league-wide, he was the first player to have their number retired and the only one since was Guy Lafleur.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This is a really interesting question. I think there's a decent chance that serious hockey historians rank Sid higher, but that the hockey world in general ends up having higher regard for Ovechkin because of the goals record alone.

Something like this has already happened with George Hainsworth, a solid but non-dominant goalie who gets a huge legacy boost from his shutout and GAA marks (in an era when the typical game was 1-0 or 2-1).

 

[pi314]

Crosby being asked about Ovechkin in the NHL, juniors, and internationally...

 

[nowhereman]

Can OV fanboys make their case for the guy without being so pathetically petty against Sid? It is beyond nauseating to have to hear the constant wining about "deserved Conn Smythes", Canadian nationality, media bias, secondary assists, Malkin/Letang/Kessel and all of the other sad attempts to piss on his legacy.

 

[norrisnick]

Can OV fanboys make their case for the guy without being so pathetically petty against Sid? It is beyond nauseating to have to hear the constant wining about "deserved Conn Smythes", Canadian nationality, media bias, secondary assists, Malkin/Letang/Kessel and all of the other sad attempts to piss on his legacy.

Once the Sid Kids come up with anything other than PPG and team achievements. Sure.

 

[authentic]

What is exactly Crosby’s legacy? He may have been the better player since 2010, but there are many players who won 3 cups and/or some individual awards. In 20-30 years he’ll be remembered as Messier, Mikita, Esposito and such. But the best goalscorer ever is the only

Being clearly better than the best goal scorer of all time when their careers perfectly overlapped is probably a decent one.

 

[norrisnick]

Being clearly better than the best goal scorer of all time when their careers perfectly overlapped is probably a decent one.

Can't be that clear since it's been a debate for 18 seasons now.

 

[Garbageyuk]

What is exactly Crosby’s legacy? He may have been the better player since 2010, but there are many players who won 3 cups and/or some individual awards. In 20-30 years he’ll be remembered as Messier, Mikita, Esposito and such. But the best goalscorer ever is the only one.

And there’s your answer. People (mostly Pens fans) need to get off it and realize that the op isn’t asking who the (very slightly, and very arguable) better player is.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Can OV fanboys make their case for the guy without being so pathetically petty against Sid? It is beyond nauseating to have to hear the constant wining about "deserved Conn Smythes", Canadian nationality, media bias, secondary assists, Malkin/Letang/Kessel and all of the other sad attempts to piss on his legacy.

Oh that's rich.

Whereas your side rampantly lies about Ovechkin, claiming he is one-dimensional despite being top 10 in assists during his time in the NHL and 4th in hits.

 

[Juxta Position]

Most of these responses are delusional.

The point of the game is to win. Not to stand and cherry pick to pad your own stats.

No one of this era has won more than Crosby.

He's also won Olympic golds and a world championship.

Just like Henderson's goal, they'll still be playing his Vancouver 2010 goal 50 years later.

The guy who won.

If you're talking about team accomplishments, that's not true.

Jonathan Toews and Duncan Keith have the same resume for team championships, including international play.

Yes, Crosby has more individual awards, but from the tone of your post, I'm guessing that's what you were trying to get away from.

there have been multiple guys who "won" in this generation, but only one guy who is likely to break the Greatest player to ever play's goal scoring record.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Can I save everyone 500 replies?

Crosby:

• Missed a lot of time at his peak
• Fortunate he had Malkin on his teams
• More secondary assists than Ovechkin
• Didn't deserve 2016 Conn Smythe (sentimental / "lifetime achievement" award)
• Scoring in Stanley Cup finals series has been dissapointing
• Overrated defensively
• Overrated in international tournament
• Smaller collection of individual trophies
• Less unique/memorable than Ovechkin

Ovechkin:

• Only got out of the second round of the playoffs once in 14 tries
• Didn't deserve 2018 Conn Smythe (sentimental / "lifetime achievement" award)
• Hasn't topped 40 assists over the past 11 years
• "Controller disconnected" defensively
• Shoots too much
• Dissapointing in international tournaments
• 40 points in 60 consecutive playoff games from age 26-31
• Only 1 Art Ross trophy

I think this more or less covers it, no? (For the record, I don't agree with many of these points).

 

[norrisnick]

Can I save everyone 500 replies?

Crosby:

• Missed a lot of time at his peak
• Fortunate he had Malkin on his teams
• More secondary assists than Ovechkin
• Didn't deserve 2016 Conn Smythe (sentimental / "lifetime achievement" award)
• Scoring in Stanley Cup finals series has been dissapointing
• Overrated defensively
• Overrated in international tournament
• Smaller collection of individual trophies
• Less unique/memorable than Ovechkin

Ovechkin:

• Only got out of the second round of the playoffs once in 14 tries
• Didn't deserve 2018 Conn Smythe (sentimental / "lifetime achievement" award)
• Hasn't topped 40 assists over the past 11 years
• "Controller disconnected" defensively
• Shoots too much
• Dissapointing in international tournaments
• 40 points in 60 consecutive playoff games from age 26-31
• Only 1 Art Ross trophy

I think this more or less covers it, no? (For the record, I don't agree with many of these points).

Fun ruiner...

 

[filinski77]

Or maybe, just maybe, those teams win consistently because Crosby is on them.

It's not like Russia or Washington weren't stacked during Ovechkin's tenure.

You guys are so full of excuses.

As a Canadian, you are completely delusional to think that Russia was "stacked", or that Canada needed Crosby to win in international play. Swap Ovi and Crosby on Team R and Team C, and Canada still has all of the success.

As far as NHL playoffs go, it's very clear that Ovechkin has been the consistent best player on the Caps over the last 17 years. The Capitals as a team have not consistently had the depth that the Penguins did in the playoffs and that's clear too. Malkin's also the clear 3rd best player of the generation, and was just as important to the Penguins 3 cups as Crosby was (who has like 2 goals in the 19 games in those 3 cup final series they won - I think).

 

[Captain97]

If Ovi breaks Gretzky's record it will be him without question.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Ovechkin because of goals record.

Crosby great obviously but also takes some shine off because McDavid is better

 

[um]

Can OV fanboys make their case for the guy without being so pathetically petty against Sid? It is beyond nauseating to have to hear the constant wining about "deserved Conn Smythes", Canadian nationality, media bias, secondary assists, Malkin/Letang/Kessel and all of the other sad attempts to piss on his legacy.

As time goes on and people are remembering players from 50 years ago Ovechkin's name will still be up there with the all-time goal scoring leaders and his 9 Rocket Richards. He will likely be #1 in both categories for a long long time. While Crosby will be remembered I think he'll get lost in the shuffle of great centers like Messier, Yzerman, Mikita, Sakic, Beliveau, etc.

Personally I think Crosby is the better player, but that's not the question being asked. Hockey historians in 50 years will probably agree with me that Crosby is better, but that's a small percentage of hockey fans, most fans today know very little about the 60s hockey players.

Another factor Crosby fanboys won't like is this. Crosby is not particularly beloved or memorable, even here in Toronto. He's got a boring personality and his style of play isn't flashy. I don't blame him for shying away from the spotlight, I'd do the same. But the NHL is an entertainment business and Ovechkin is more entertaining.

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah, it’s only because of this Crosby guy, who never led his team in scoring during SC wins. The same Crosby guy who won the Conn Smythe having 19 points in 24 games being -2. Nothing less than pure domination, Sidney Dominator as he is.

Funny today I was thinking about what a weak and tired narrative this actually is as teams didn't suddenly decide to focus on Kessel and Malkin and take their chances with Crosby.

Maybe some people spend too much time in fantasy hockey leagues and have lost the realization of what real NHL hockey and winning is.

BTW Crosby with another killer performance tonight versus the Sabers.

McDavid is my clear #1 for the Hart but Crosby is second right now on my ballot.

 

[wetcoast]

Can't be that clear since it's been a debate for 18 seasons now.

It was a "serious" debate for the first 5 or 6 seasons and even then Crosby was probably ahead due to 2 trips to the SC finals and winning one but since Ovechkin's peak Crosby has clearly pulled away so polls like this (what does the OP even mean as both will be historical figures and either way no one alive in this thread today will get to say "see I was right".

Ovechkin is an all time great but some people get pretzel logic to try to make his case better than Crosby's when it's pretty clear who the better overall player was and still is today.

 

[wetcoast]

As time goes on and people are remembering players from 50 years ago Ovechkin's name will still be up there with the all-time goal scoring leaders and his 9 Rocket Richards. He will likely be #1 in both categories for a long long time. While Crosby will be remembered I think he'll get lost in the shuffle of great centers like Messier, Yzerman, Mikita, Sakic, Beliveau, etc.

Personally I think Crosby is the better player, but that's not the question being asked. Hockey historians in 50 years will probably agree with me that Crosby is better, but that's a small percentage of hockey fans, most fans today know very little about the 60s hockey players.

Another factor Crosby fanboys won't like is this. Crosby is not particularly beloved or memorable, even here in Toronto. He's got a boring personality and his style of play isn't flashy. I don't blame him for shying away from the spotlight, I'd do the same. But the NHL is an entertainment business and Ovechkin is more entertaining.

Fair points but that being said history isn't going to be very kind to the company Ovechkin kept in his homeland so maybe "boring" Crosby might be viewed better here and their resumes aren't done here as Crosby is having a great season and has had the much better last 10 years as well.

 

[Coffee]

I think we all know Crosby has been the better overall rounded player when he is healthy.

100 years from now who will have the greater legacy in NHL history?

3 cups is nice but it only puts crosby ranked at 185 for most rings according to NHL records. His Conn S trophies puts him in a five way tie at 2nd for most won. He also has a slew of other trophies and accolades which puts him in an elite all-time ranking.

Ovi has an opportunity to possibly beat the Great one's goal totals and will be #2 in NHL history after this season. Currently holds many goal scoring NHL records for various achievements, Has the record for most "Rockets" won and also has a slew of other highly touted trophies in his trophy room.

So in the future ........Legacy wise will Ovi be more relevant/remembered? as his goal scoring records will be chased for a long time and be relevant in the NHL record books for possibly a very long time or will Crosby have a greater legacy?

Can you add “too close to call” please

Thanks

 

[LightningStorm]

Just a reminder, this question is less about who was the better player and more about which player was more memorable. I rank Crosby higher as a player, but when it comes to the story of their careers Ovechkin's is definitely more appealing.