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Who Was Considered The Best From 1995-2005?

SCampo98

SCampo98

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Dec 24, 2015
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Sherbrooke, QC
Ever since I became a full-fledged fan around 2005, there has always been a player (or a few) considered to be the best in the league. From around '05-2015, it was pretty clear these players were Crosby and Ovechkin, while a few others would sneak into the conversation every once in a while.

Who was considered the "best" in the era from around 1995-2005? Gretzky was winding down in his career and Lemieux was winding down in the first part of his career. Although I only have stats to go by, my assumption would be Jagr or Lidstrom, but I'd love to hear from those who watched during that period. Who was generally considered the best during that time?
 
Jagr, maybe Forsberg or Lidstrom during his prima donna WSH years (01-04). Hasek was probably the only other contender before that. Brodeur was in the mix as well I think, as he was breaking every record in the book, but it was acknowledged he played behind a stacked defense on a defensive team. Pronger gets some love as well for his 2000 Hart and his Smythe worthy 2005 playoff run with Edmonton, he was a force out there, probably would've had some Chelios-esque longevity if he hadn't lost his peripheral vision getting hit with a stick in the eye

It was a transition period with a few contenders, a lot got injured (Kariya, Forsberg, Lindros, Lemieux!), that makes it trickier to judge things beyond Jags.
 
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1995 I’d say is around when I start becoming aware of hockey. Learning mostly from kids on the schoolyard trading hockey cards, their older brothers, and from video games, I’d say Lindros, Jagr and Hasek. Eventually Lindros drops off while Forsberg enters the mix.
 
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Forsberg, Hasek, and Jagr.

Forsberg had THN rankings of 5th (1996), 3rd (1998), 2nd (1999), 2nd (2000), 4th (2001), 2nd (2002), 1st (2003), 1st (2004), 2nd (2005), and was one of 5 players on the unranked "franchise player" list in 1997.

Hasek had THN rankings of 9th (1996), 1st (1998), 3rd (1999), 11th (2000), 9th (2001), and then re-appeared on the list at 8th (2003) when he came out of retirement.

Jagr had THN rankings of 2nd (1996), 2nd (1997), 4th (1998), 1st (1999), 1st (2000), 1st (2001), 4th (2002), 14th (2003), 20th (2004), 12th (2005), and was one of 5 players on the unranked "franchise player" list in 1997.

Forsberg's rankings were more consistent as he was perceived as a top-5 player all 10 years, while Jagr was ranked 1st on three occasions (1999-2001). If one is to consider the 1994-95 season which took place entirely in 1995, Hasek and Jagr did very well on a THN list that was done prior to the completion of the regular season (Hasek ranked 1st).

I would say Peter Forsberg overall, since he didn't have stretches in this time frame that were unflattering to his reputation, and was no less well regarded at the apex of his career. I think the others did better in recognition that was isolated to the regular season, whereas Forsberg's name tended to re-emerge in the discussions following the playoffs.

Jagr and Hasek have better careers overall - health/longevity work in Jagr's favor, while longevity works in Hasek's - but if I'm looking at strictly 1995-2005, Peter Forsberg is the safer bet, as roughly one-third of the time frame is from years where one might not necessarily want Jagr or Hasek at all. 1993-2003 or 1994-2004 might be closer, because at least then you're catching some high-end seasons from Jagr and Hasek when Forsberg was merely the best non-NHL player.
 
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Lemieux when he was playing.

Jagr took over as soon as Lemieux was gone. (Lindros was injured too much)

Hasek was right up there too, but its rare that a goalie is seen as the best player.

After those you get into pack of top players like Kariya (before Suter), Forsberg, Sakic etc. who were the best of the rest and in any given year might have the best season.
 
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a very weird span, where the only guy who was good (and in the league) all the way through was sakic. i probably would go with hasek, though.

jagr: begins his peak exactly when this decade starts: january of 1995, and peaks through spring of 2001. then goes to washington, so three "eh" years at the end.

hasek has the same seven years of awesome, then a very good year eight where he wins the cup, then for the sake of this comparison doesn't play the last two years, ffffing up poor cujo's life notwithstanding.

lindros: DNP 2001, meh from 2003 to 2004. incompletes in 1997 and 1998.

lidstrom: isn't lidstrom yet in 1995, getting there in '96 and '97, establishes himself in the '97 playoffs then is a first team all-star up to 2003, after which he has an uncharacteristic off year.

forsberg: DNP 2002, incompletes in 2000 and 2004.

sakic: also enters his peak exactly in '95, has incompletes in '97, '98, '00, and '03, which is more than i remembered tbh. but whenever he played 70 games, he was in the top five in scoring.

the only thing that gives me pause here on hasek > jagr is if we count the first half of the 2005-'06 season, when he was the hart/ross favourite. (although tbf, if you asked anyone who the best player in the league was in those months, they all would say forsberg.)
 
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If you're covering that entire period, Jagr is likely the only choice. Even despite his struggles in Washington.

Mario was still playing until 1997. He's certainly the best until retirement. After that, Hasek becomes the best for several seasons. Lidstrom didn't become popular until the early 2000's. Forsberg around that same time.

There was no consensus choice as to who was best from 1995 to 2005. Although Jagr was the best player during that entire stretch, I don't believe he was ever the best at any specific period. Maybe 2001? Except many people would have chosen Forsberg over Jagr in 2001.
 
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BraveCanadian said:
Lemieux when he was playing.

Jagr took over as soon as Lemieux was gone. (Lindros was injured too much)

Hasek was right up there too, but its rare that a goalie is seen as the best player.

After those you get into pack of top players like Kariya (before Suter), Forsberg, Sakic etc. who were the best of the rest and in any given year might have the best season.
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This is true but Hasek was more dominant at that time than Jagr. Higher regarded as well. He won back to back Hart trophies and carried his team to a Gold Medal. He was the most feared opponent in the game.
 
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It's hard to say because no one consistently dominated in that timeframe, though if I had to pick someone I'd say Jagr. A lot of people still considered him the best player even when his performance in Washington wasn't the best, though plenty of people didn't like him and his reputation (more about character than ability) around 2001 and after was pretty poor. I'd probably go with Forsberg as a number two in that window because his reputation stayed solid even when he was injured. I remember people referring to Forsberg as the best all around player in the NHL even in the mid to late 90s. Then Hasek, though after his Hart peak he wasn't as feared. This is only based on discussions from that time, not polls or anything else.
 
My completely subjective top ten (in rough order) would be Jagr, Hasek, Sakic, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Brodeur, Roy, Selanne, Fedorov and Modano.

Lemieux was excluded due to missing too much time (same with Lindros - a mix of missed time and drop in ability towards the end).

I was surprised to find only one defenseman who I thought absolutely had to be in the top ten. Many defensemen had a couple of huge seasons (Chelios, MacInnis) but were usually very good rather than great. Pronger had too many down years due to still developing and injuries (and as hard as it seems given his reputation today, he was criticized before the lockout for disappointing playoffs).
 
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Yeah, it was definitely Jagr. Forsberg was the main competition and the more complete player. But I think it was pretty clear that the overall view was that of Jagr being top dog in those days. Hell, when Gretzky retired there was even the “passing of the torch” to Jagr.
 
For my money, Jagr and Hasek if we're considering the entire stretch.

Though you can throw in Forsberg, Brodeur, Selanne, and Lidstrom for overall dominance throughout this entire time period.

I think some other guys, like Bure (pre-injuries), MSL (starting from about 2002-2003), Iginla (starting 2001), Kariya (pre-2003), Lindros (pre-2000), Tkachuk (1995-99) and Modano (pre-2003) also deserve mention, but don't quite meet the criteria for continued dominance over the entire stretch.
 
Hockey Outsider said:
My completely subjective top ten (in rough order) would be Jagr, Hasek, Sakic, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Brodeur, Roy, Selanne, Fedorov and Modano.
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Pretty similar, though I would probably have some combination of Belfour, Hull, Kariya, Pronger, and Stevens over Fedorov, Modano, and Selanne. We’re basically cutting off one of Fedorov’s two excellent years, and Selanne is half-excellent and half-broken like Lindros.

Maybe... Forsberg, Jagr, Hasek, Sakic, Brodeur, Roy, Kariya, Lidstrom, Belfour, Stevens?

Belfour was top-3 in All-Star voting in three cities in the 1995-2005 range. That’s impressive for someone who was probably a little past his peak years.
 
1995 to 2005 is an arbitrary period, of course, so the names change if you just shift the years a bit. Overall, for that 10-year period, I think I'd have to go with Jaromir Jagr. This is because he was pretty elite the entire time, played all the seasons, was rarely injured. (The 'dip' he had in Washington is kind of over-stated, too -- he was 3rd in PPG his first season there, and then 14th the second year and the third year [min. 40 GP]).

But if you changed the 10-year period from 1995-96 to 2005-06 (there was no 2004-05, of course), then it's definitely Jagr, because we add in his first season in New York, when he was, in my opinion, easily the best player in the League.

Mario was still the most talented and skilled player in this period, but you can't really name him when he played less than half the games and was retired for 3.5 years in the middle. (I don't think Mario was at his best anymore in 1995-96 or 1996-97, either. He was already slowing down. The 2000 comeback was miraculous, but it was a half season.)

As everyone notes, Forsberg and Hasek are up there with Jagr, and then maybe Lidstrom. If we shift the years to 1993-94 to 2002-03, then Hasek wins. I'm not really sure if Forsberg has any advantage over Jagr, except maybe he didn't have a couple of weaker seasons; but then, when you factor in injuries, that balances out. And I think Jagr had the higher peak (e.g, in 1998-99, and he wasn't with any other top-5 players, as Forsberg was).
 
quoipourquoi said:
Forsberg, Hasek, and Jagr.

Forsberg had THN rankings of 5th (1996), 3rd (1998), 2nd (1999), 2nd (2000), 4th (2001), 2nd (2002), 1st (2003), 1st (2004), 2nd (2005), and was one of 5 players on the unranked "franchise player" list in 1997.

Hasek had THN rankings of 9th (1996), 1st (1998), 3rd (1999), 11th (2000), 9th (2001), and then re-appeared on the list at 8th (2003) when he came out of retirement.

Jagr had THN rankings of 2nd (1996), 2nd (1997), 4th (1998), 1st (1999), 1st (2000), 1st (2001), 4th (2002), 14th (2003), 20th (2004), 12th (2005), and was one of 5 players on the unranked "franchise player" list in 1997.

Forsberg's rankings were more consistent as he was perceived as a top-5 player all 10 years, while Jagr was ranked 1st on three occasions (1999-2001). If one is to consider the 1994-95 season which took place entirely in 1995, Hasek and Jagr did very well on a THN list that was done prior to the completion of the regular season (Hasek ranked 1st).

I would say Peter Forsberg overall, since he didn't have stretches in this time frame that were unflattering to his reputation, and was no less well regarded at the apex of his career. I think the others did better in recognition that was isolated to the regular season, whereas Forsberg's name tended to re-emerge in the discussions following the playoffs.

Jagr and Hasek have better careers overall - health/longevity work in Jagr's favor, while longevity works in Hasek's - but if I'm looking at strictly 1995-2005, Peter Forsberg is the safer bet, as roughly one-third of the time frame is from years where one might not necessarily want Jagr or Hasek at all. 1993-2003 or 1994-2004 might be closer, because at least then you're catching some high-end seasons from Jagr and Hasek when Forsberg was merely the best non-NHL player.
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A table of the top ten players in the league for that time span, based on their average rank by THN, would be interesting.

Edit: As was this, of course. I think your argument for Forsberg sounds fair as to the question in the OP. Lidström might belong in the conversation if we’re evaluating the era now, whereas Lindros likely drops back quite considerably, but I doubt Lidström received much consideration for “best player” in that era without a great deal of hindsight working in his favor, while Lindros enters the timespan as the mythological embodiment of the ultimate hockey player, and must have received some benefit of the doubt when his game was marred by injuries.
 
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Maybe one day people will wonder why it was not more unanimously Jagr, specially if McDavid end up never doing what he did.

There was often during that time frame someone going above him in some ranking, would it be Lindros, Forsberg, Hasek and if someone value Lidstrom a lot is another good candidate, I remember fan poll asking Messier, Lindros or Jagr for a playoff run quite late in the 90s.

Because of Esposito/Lafleur/Gretzky/Lemieux, I think we became used to it and started to find normal someone winning the art ross, 3-4 season in a row, but maybe he will be the last one to do it for a very long time and that history will perceive him in a different light and make it an easy Jagr to that question.
 
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