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Who should be in the 2024 HHoF class?

Wyatt Earp said:
I don't have an opinion, but some possibles in random order are:

Mogilny
Datsyuk
Marleau
Gonchar
Meghan Duggan
Jennifer Botterill
Brind'Amour
Miller
Keith Tkachuk
Kovalchuk
Zetterberg
Cujo
Weber
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Hard to keep Shea Weber out. 5 times he is top 4 for the Norris. Twice 2nd team all-star, Twice 1st team all-star. Both of the times he finished 2nd in Norris trophy voting he easily could have been the winner. I think he left Nashville at the wrong time as they went to the Cup final after he left, and I think it hurts him being on Nashville and then a sad sack Habs team. But this was who you want as a defenseman. He wasn't going to get you 70 points a year, but he played in every single situation and I would call him an elite defenseman. Plus he was excellent in the Olympics. I don't know how you keep him out.

Datsyuk and then Zetterberg are the most deserving after that and on that list alone the only ones I would induct. I have no idea how Ryan Miller could get win when we don't even put the likes of Cujo, Beezer, Moog, etc. in.

Apart from that list Fleury is still a good choice. I think Vernon opened up a bit of a door for goalies you can argue and I think Turgeon did it for forwards too. Not that I like the doors being opened for more undeserving guys, but they are just a long list of many who have done this.

Maybe open up the discussion on J-C Tremblay again. And I am sure Middleton is talked about regularly.
 
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Crosby2010 said:
Hard to keep Shea Weber out. 5 times he is top 4 for the Norris. Twice 2nd team all-star, Twice 1st team all-star. Both of the times he finished 2nd in Norris trophy voting he easily could have been the winner. I think he left Nashville at the wrong time as they went to the Cup final after he left, and I think it hurts him being on Nashville and then a sad sack Habs team. But this was who you want as a defenseman. He wasn't going to get you 70 points a year, but he played in every single situation and I would call him an elite defenseman. Plus he was excellent in the Olympics. I don't know how you keep him out.

Datsyuk and then Zetterberg are the most deserving after that and on that list alone the only ones I would induct. I have no idea how Ryan Miller could get win when we don't even put the likes of Cujo, Beezer, Moog, etc. in.

Apart from that list Fleury is still a good choice. I think Vernon opened up a bit of a door for goalies you can argue and I think Turgeon did it for forwards too. Not that I like the doors being opened for more undeserving guys, but they are just a long list of many who have done this.

Maybe open up the discussion on J-C Tremblay again. And I am sure Middleton is talked about regularly.
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What about Gonchar, he must be close
 
Golden_Jet said:
What about Gonchar, he must be close
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A lot to like about him, but defensemen are starting to get the lenient treatment in the HHOF a lot now. I wouldn't have put in Housley, Lowe and might have even left out Wilson and Zubov. Gonchar is a very solid playoff performer but wouldn't be all that much better than Desjardins for instance. I just think there has to be a line drawn, and I feel that line is above Gonchar even with some undeserving guys in there who are below the line too.
 
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My pick were:

Datsyuk (First Ballot)
Zetterberg
Mogilny
Weber (First Ballot)

Hold Marleau for one more year to induct him together with Thornton and might consider one of Roenick, Tkachuk or Damphousse in 25. One more spot? Chara for another first ballot.
 
I'm surprised the number of people saying Keith Tkachuk.

Obvious a good player with ok numbers but he never won anything...think he made it out of the first round...once? I'm not a Cups be all end all guy but gotta count for something.

Has a couple second team all stars but other then that no...
 
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Crosby2010 said:
Hard to keep Shea Weber out. 5 times he is top 4 for the Norris. Twice 2nd team all-star, Twice 1st team all-star. Both of the times he finished 2nd in Norris trophy voting he easily could have been the winner. I think he left Nashville at the wrong time as they went to the Cup final after he left, and I think it hurts him being on Nashville and then a sad sack Habs team. But this was who you want as a defenseman. He wasn't going to get you 70 points a year, but he played in every single situation and I would call him an elite defenseman. Plus he was excellent in the Olympics. I don't know how you keep him out.
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he’s rob blake with no cup or norris

but man, rob blake without hardware would be reaaaaally tempting to leave out wouldn’t he?
 
Mohar Ikram said:
My pick were:

Datsyuk (First Ballot)
Zetterberg
Mogilny
Weber (First Ballot)

Hold Marleau for one more year to induct him together with Thornton and might consider one of Roenick, Tkachuk or Damphousse in 25. One more spot? Chara for another first ballot.
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What argument does Marleau have other than the games played record?

He was never one of the league's top forwards either statistically or using the eye test. Disappeared in the playoffs. His numbers aren't impressive considering he played more games than Gordie freakin' Howe.
 
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That's the "fame" part...it's famous for playing the most games. I'm not saying I like it, but that's what it is...he wasn't great.

I actually thought he was underrated early in his career, but I can tell I'm going to be spending the rest of my days downplaying him haha
 
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GMR said:
What argument does Marleau have other than the games played record?
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The face of a franchise and its scoring leader (and will be for a very long time) and scoring over 550 goals in the nhl.

A bit like Turgeon with points, with 566 goals Marleau will be the players with the most goals in league history not in the Hall, you need to go down to Pat Verbeek at 522 goals, 15 spots down to find someone with less goals not in.

Once Roenick become the most points not in the hall guy that would also I imagine create a narrative, talks and pressure to get in at some point.

Obviously someone need to be and Verbeek will never make the hall, but compiling a lot of something his valued a lot by hall voters (and players in general, probably feeling in their bones what it means to do it for so long more than us and giving credit for it more).

Since 1990 players with more even strength goals than Marleau: Jagr-Ovechkin-Selanne-Iginla-Crosby, that the list.
 
MadLuke said:
The face of a franchise and its scoring leader (and will be for a very long time) and scoring over 550 goals in the nhl.

A bit like Turgeon with points, with 566 goals Marleau will be the players with the most goals in league history not in the Hall, you need to go down to Pat Verbeek at 522 goals, 15 spots down to find someone with less goals not in.

Once Roenick become the most points not in the hall guy that would also I imagine create a narrative, talks and pressure to get in at some point.

Obviously someone need to be and Verbeek will never make the hall, but compiling a lot of something his valued a lot by hall voters (and players in general, probably feeling in their bones what it means to do it for so long more than us and giving credit for it more).

Since 1990 players with more even strength goals than Marleau: Jagr-Ovechkin-Selanne-Iginla-Crosby, that the list.
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I think he'll eventually make it. But he shouldn't. He's had two seasons in his career where he finished top 10 in goals. He's an accumulator more than a great goal scorer. His GPG would be more impressive if he played like 500 fewer games.

Is he the face of the franchise? More like the 1/2 face of a franchise known for playoff disappointments during his career.
 
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GMR said:
His GPG would be more impressive if he played like 500 fewer games.
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Probably mean, played 500 more games ?

GMR said:
Is he the face of the franchise? More like the 1/2 face of a franchise known for playoff disappointments during his career.
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If not Marleau for the Shark, would it be Nolan, Burns or Thornton ?

He played 500 more games as a Shark than Thornton and did absolutely nothing outside of San Jose both helping him to be.

Depending on Couture, longest captain tenure as well, 2004 to 2009 ?
 
MadLuke said:
Probably mean, played 500 more games ?


If not Marleau for the Shark, would it be Nolan, Burns or Thornton ?

He played 500 more games as a Shark than Thornton and did absolutely nothing outside of San Jose both helping him to be.

Depending on Couture, longest captain tenure as well, 2004 to 2009 ?
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I'd say Thornton/Marleau. The face of the franchise shouldn't lose their captaincy. Both of those guys did. It wouldn't be Nolan, Burns, or Couture though. Maybe the Shark logo itself is the face of the franchise?

Come to think of it, Turgeon isn't a good comparable at all. Turgeon outscored Marleau despite playing in almost 500 fewer games. Higher scoring era, but still....

Roenick was a more dynamic player than Marleau and he's not in the HOF.

I don't know who the best comparable to Marleau is.
 
MadLuke said:
The face of a franchise and its scoring leader (and will be for a very long time) and scoring over 550 goals in the nhl.

A bit like Turgeon with points, with 566 goals Marleau will be the players with the most goals in league history not in the Hall, you need to go down to Pat Verbeek at 522 goals, 15 spots down to find someone with less goals not in.

Once Roenick become the most points not in the hall guy that would also I imagine create a narrative, talks and pressure to get in at some point.

Obviously someone need to be and Verbeek will never make the hall, but compiling a lot of something his valued a lot by hall voters (and players in general, probably feeling in their bones what it means to do it for so long more than us and giving credit for it more).

Since 1990 players with more even strength goals than Marleau: Jagr-Ovechkin-Selanne-Iginla-Crosby, that the list.
Click to expand...

He only hit those totals because he played a ton of games and a majority of them with Thornton. His per game/per season rates are abysmal against other HOF members/candidates.

Only AS-4 and AS-7
Only 1 season over 80 pts
Never Top 10 in points
Only 4,6 Top 10 in goals
Only 76 points in 122 playoff games
Career per 82 of only 26 goals and 55 points (0.67 career PPG)

The absolute poster child of mediocre player compiling HOF level totals.
 
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GMR said:
What argument does Marleau have other than the games played record?

He was never one of the league's top forwards either statistically or using the eye test. Disappeared in the playoffs. His numbers aren't impressive considering he played more games than Gordie freakin' Howe.
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He hold all sorts of records with Sharks. Sharks became contender due to him (they were in WCF before getting Thornton). He is Mr. Sharks. Plus, 2 gold medal for Canada helps him a lot.

Plus, don't talk like unathletic person that Howe's game record is easy to broke. There were reason why those records stands. It is almost impossible to broke until Marleau did it. Marleau only bad in his last 3 seasons which is normal btw.

Furthermore to say, Howe's performance in Whalers is also stat compiling one. Because he is 50+, we give him a leeway.

"His numbers isn't impressive". Any 1000/1000 players are in their own class. To say his number is not impressive is straight up bs and acts as bland counter arguement.

Playoff choker... Lots of player in Hall are playoff choker - Dionne, Ciccarelli, Sundin and so on. He did manage several WCF and also being in one SCF so he is better than Dionne in that regard.
 
Mohar Ikram said:
He hold all sorts of records with Sharks. Sharks became contender due to him (they were in WCF before getting Thornton). He is Mr. Sharks. Plus, 2 gold medal for Canada helps him a lot.

Plus, don't talk like unathletic person that Howe's game record is easy to broke. There were reason why those records stands. It is almost impossible to broke until Marleau did it. Marleau only bad in his last 3 seasons which is normal btw.

Furthermore to say, Howe's performance in Whalers is also stat compiling one. Because he is 50+, we give him a leeway.

"His numbers isn't impressive". Any 1000/1000 players are in their own class. To say his number is not impressive is straight up bs and acts as bland counter arguement.

Playoff choker... Lots of player in Hall are playoff choker - Dionne, Ciccarelli, Sundin and so on. He did manage several WCF and also being in one SCF so he is better than Dionne in that regard.
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Gordie Howe was an impact player in his 40's. Marleau was just hanging on to break the games played record.

I'm not saying he sucks or is the offensive equivalent of Stu Grimson. I'm just saying he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame.........I know he'll get there anyway because of how the committee votes.
 
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GMR said:
Gordie Howe was an impact player in his 40's. Marleau was just hanging on to break the games played record.

I'm not saying he sucks or is the offensive equivalent of Stu Grimson. I'm just saying he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame.........I know he'll get there anyway because of how the committee votes.
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Yup. For all the "face of the franchise" talk, that just makes him a poor man's Roenick who played 500 more games
 
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Soundgarden said:
I think Weber's Norris voting record may be better than Blake's, even without a Norris.
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BigBadBruins7708 said:
I had to look and surprisingly they're pretty much even (counting Blake's win).

Blake: 1,3,3,4,5
Weber: 2,2,3,4,4
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i’m surprised you’re surprised

i always thought of them as basically the same guy. elite shooter on the PP, high level outlet passer, big and feared hitter, overrated defensively because of their physicality, excellent crease clearers but also got away with a lot with the refs due to name recognition. both were careerlong team canada mainstays who routinely were standouts even among their elite peers in international competition.
 
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How does everyone feel about Kovalchuk getting in?

Yeah, relatively short career. But in the 2000s he was

2nd most goals in the 2000s, only behind Iginla. Has goal finishes of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6, 7, 8.

3rd in GPG, behind Ovechkin and Bure (just short of 200 games). Ahead of Heatley, Crosby, Iginla, Jagr.

7th in points, 13th in PPG which doesn't seem impressive, but he finished 2nd, 5th. 6th, 8th, and 10th in points in his career.

As well as 4th, 6th, 7th, 7th in PPG finishes.

He was a top 10 point producer in his prime, the 2nd best goalscorer in the 2000s behind Ovechkin and probably a top 5 goalscorer this century.
 
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