Who is the best goal scorer of all time and who are the top 10 all time in order?

[TheBig08]

I don't really have a top ten. I guess I can make one. I may get back to you with that. Like I said, Ovechkin is the most accomplished goal scorer. He would be my pick for greatest. As for best, it's between him, Lemieux and maybe Bobby Hull.

Your list contains the usual suspects. I assume you put much more emphasis on raw scoring ability than on goal finishes and times leading the League in goals (otherwise Bossy and Bure wouldn't be in the top five).

Cant wait to see your list. And as for how i got my list i did a lot of researching.

 

[TheBig08]

wh

I’ll bite; what’s the argument for Bure over a lot of those names? Gretzky being the big one. Fun player for sure, but Bure isn’t one of my top ten.

Lemieux
Gretzky
Ovechkin
Bobby Hull
Maurice Richard
Russell Bowie
Gordie Howe
Brett Hull
Charlie Conacher
Phil Esposito

whats your reason for wayne and mario over ovi and why do you think lemuiex is the best?

 

[TheBig08]

I would have no ground to judge Conacher vs peak Richard vs Bobby Hull, modern day my feeling would be Mario, but unlike Gretzky playmaking or Orr for 2 way defenseman play, no one really stand out enough to say.

Number wise career last time I looked it, would be around

Ovechkin
Richard
Lemieux
Hull and hull

When talking peak, Gretzky-Matthews-Bure would enter the conversation, for 2 others to round it to 10, Bossy-Selanne maybe, Esposito scored a lot and hard to keep out but so did Jagr, those 2 can be a bit underrated as goalscorer specially Jagr.

so u got ovechkin as the best and then your top 10
1. ovi
2. richard
3. lemuiex
4/5. brett/bobby
6. wayne
7. matthews
8. bure
9. bossy
10. selanne

Did i read that right?

Does not stand out enough:

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But like Jagr he is easy to dismiss because of everything else he did so well, I can see him up there, 801 goals is 801 goals

And i will say this jagr and howe had about the same amount of games played. jagr had 1733 games played, gordie howe had 1767, and jagr played in a higher scoring era but howe still had more goals than jagr. and even if jagr played an extra 34 he wouldnt have passed howe. now howe vs esposito and selanne for 10th is tough but i think either one of them over howe for 10th is agreeable but me personally i still got howe over them.

 

[rmartin65]

whats your reason for wayne and mario over ovi and why do you think lemuiex is the best?

I think they were more multidimensional as scorers. Ovechkin is an all time great, so this isn't me taking away from him at all. But 99 and 66 could be players and goalies in more ways than Ovechkin could.

Ovechkin will likely end up with the all time goal total, and I think he deserves it. But I also think that Gretzky and Lemieux (if he was healthy) would have scored more had they been more focused on scoring goals. I think they left some goals on the table over the course of their careers because they realized that they had the ability to increase their team's chance at a goal if they passed to a teammate.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lemieux was the best on pure ability. Ovechkin being able to one time the puck from the same spot on the pp for about 10 years now doesnt change that for me.

 

[MadLuke]

Ovechkin being able to one time the puck from the same spot on the pp for about 10 years now doesnt change that for me.

let not act as if he did not had some of the most dynamics wrist shots and goals in the history of the league, Lemieux as just arguably the biggest toolkit ever.

 

[TheBig08]

It's very hard to isolate a particular skill and rank it -- and of course there's a lot more that goes into volume of goals scored than just the player's ability -- but anyway, I'll try (this is just NHL based, btw, if that wasn't obvious):

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Alex Ovechkin
3. Bobby Hull
4. Maurice Richard
5. Wayne Gretzky
6. Gordie Howe
7. Brett Hull
8. Mike Bossy
9. Phil Esposito
10. Jaromir Jagr / Pavel Bure / Auston Matthews

I feel like Charlie Conacher's and Jari Kurri's periods as elite goal scorers were just a tad too short to make the top 10.

It's still early days on Matthews, but if he can get another 60-ish goal season this year, maybe he kicks aside Jagr and Bure and starts to climb up the list further...

Why lemuiex over ovi?

Lemieux was the best on pure ability. Ovechkin being able to one time the puck from the same spot on the pp for about 10 years now doesnt change that for me.

who do you think is the best and your top 10 in order and if you have a reason/explaination or stats share them.

Also i think ovi is the best and here is my top 10 all time in order can you rate it.

1. Alex ovechkin
2. Mario lemuiex
3. Mike Bossy
4. Pavel Bure
5. Wayne Gretzky
6. Bobby Hull
7. Brett Hull
8. Maurice Richard
9. Gordie Howe
10. Auston Matthews

 

[TheBig08]

I would have no ground to judge Conacher vs peak Richard vs Bobby Hull, modern day my feeling would be Mario, but unlike Gretzky playmaking or Orr for 2 way defenseman play, no one really stand out enough to say.

Number wise career last time I looked it, would be around

Ovechkin
Richard
Lemieux
Hull and hull

When talking peak, Gretzky-Matthews-Bure would enter the conversation, for 2 others to round it to 10, Bossy-Selanne maybe, Esposito scored a lot and hard to keep out but so did Jagr, those 2 can be a bit underrated as goalscorer specially Jagr.

so u got ovechkin as the best and then your top 10
1. ovi
2. richard
3. lemuiex
4/5. brett/bobby
6. wayne
7. matthews
8. bure
9. bossy
10. selanne

Did i read that right?

Does not stand out enough:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

But like Jagr he is easy to dismiss because of everything else he did so well, I can see him up there, 801 goals is 801 goals

And i will say this jagr and howe had about the same amount of games played. jagr had 1733 games played, gordie howe had 1767, and jagr played in a higher scoring era but howe still had more goals than jagr. and even if jagr played an extra 34 he wouldnt have passed howe. now howe vs esposito and selanne for 10th is tough but i think either one of them over howe for 10th is agreeable but me personally i still got howe over them.

 

[Crosby2010]

I think you have to go Ovie here. 9 times leading the NHL in goals, Bobby Hull did it 7 times.

Ovechkin
Lemieux
Bossy
Gretzky
Bobby Hull
Richard
Howe
Esposito
Brett Hull
Bure

How often people forget Howe on these lists is surprising. He had the goals record for 30 years. And I am giving love to Esposito here. Everyone else did it fancier, even Brett Hull did it fancier than Espo with his slap shot and one-timer, but if you are looking for effectiveness it is hard to go against Espo. Matthews will be there eventually and if McDavid ever goes back to his 2023 season where it appears like he just felt like shooting and scoring more than passing, then I could see him here.

 

[VanIslander]

Youthful questions.

Aged answer: tiers.

You'd think more info from more years of watching and learning would result in more splitting of hairs. But, quite the opposite.

 

[The Panther]

Why lemuiex over ovi?

It's kind of splitting hairs between Mario and Ovi, but I'd take Lemieux.

Mario has the highest goals-per-game of any player in NHL history who played beyond the 30th birthday (although he only played about one full season beyond his 30th birthday... but he did dress for 246 games from his 31st birthday onward).

While Ovi is clearly the best / most consistent high-volume goal scorer over a long period (at least, 2005-06 to 2022-23... and he mght not be done yet), I'm personally not that inclined towards longevity over a consistent prime, as long as that prime is several years. In Lemieux's case, during any period within his prime he was clearly a vastly superior offensive player to Ovechkin (as were several others in history), and he basically matched or surpassed Ovechkin's peak goal-scoring ability while playing as a center who put up league-leading assist totals.

So, we always run into this problem of trying to isolate "goal scoring" (or whatever skill) and extract it from overall (in this case) offensive ability. Like, Gretzky scored 700+ goals by age 30 while dominating the League every season in assists by the greatest margin ever. Is it really purposeful (or 'fair'... if such things are important) to rank Gretzky's goal scoring in isolation? The same applies to Lemieux and other playmakers who also scored a lot of goals.

I also think Lemieux had a superior skillset at a shooter / scorer than Ovi has/had.

Finally, can you please stop copying and pasting your blurb from the first post and sticking into every reply? Thank you.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I don't disagree although to play Devils advocate wouldn't a one dimensional player like say Ovi, Bure or Richard have a potentially harder time scoring goals since the other parts of their game weren't as developed?

There is no context where calling Ovechkin "one dimensional" is accurate.

He's top 3 in hits in his generation, top 10 in assists, and will end his career top 5 all-time in adjusted points.

It's kind of splitting hairs between Mario and Ovi, but I'd take Lemieux.

Mario has the highest goals-per-game of any player in NHL history who played beyond the 30th birthday (although he only played about one full season beyond his 30th birthday... but he did dress for 246 games from his 31st birthday onward).

As of age 36, Ovechkin had a higher adjusted GPG than Lemieux, sustained it for 300 more games, and played far more games after turning 30 than Lemieux did.

 

[wetcoast]

There is no context where calling Ovechkin "one dimensional" is accurate.

He's top 3 in hits in his generation, top 10 in assists, and will end his career top 5 all-time in adjusted points

Okay I'll rephrase that Ovi was more goal scoring after the 10-11 season plus the context of my post was guys known first and foremost for scoring goals and even you would agree that's the first thing that comes to mind with players like Ovi, Richard, Bure and Bossy right?

It's more descriptive than judgmental so just relax.

As of age 36, Ovechkin had a higher adjusted GPG than Lemieux, sustained it for 300 more games, and played far more games after turning 30 than Lemieux did.

 

[MadLuke]

As of age 36, Ovechkin had a higher adjusted GPG than Lemieux, sustained it for 300 more games, and played far more games after turning 30 than Lemieux did.

Vs Lemieux as of age 36 ?

After their respective 36 years old season it was .709 Lemieux vs 0.694 Ovechkin I think, Lemieux only played 26% of his game 30 years old season+ versus 40% for Ovechkin so give him the edge on that metric, but would not be that big.

Having the same goals numbers in anyway to the great Ovechkin just show how valid of a choice Lemieux is (he scored at a 58 goals per 82 pace in the playoff during his career has well, not sure it would adjust lower than Ovechkin)

Ovechkin having doing it more make him greater for sure, but best (who do you want when you need to score a goal in the third period of a game) many in the history have an argument.

 

[frisco]

Mario
Ovechkin
Gretzky
Bobby Hull
Bossy
Rocket Richard
Esposito
Jagr
Brett Hull
Gordie Howe

My Best-Carey

 

[The Panther]

As of age 36, Ovechkin had a higher adjusted GPG than Lemieux, sustained it for 300 more games, and played far more games after turning 30 than Lemieux did.

Adjusted stats are nice to give us 'ballpark figues' for historical purposes, but they're not accurate in themselves and, anyway, I don't really need them when I've seen both players at their best.

As I said, it's basically splitting hairs between Lemieux and Ovechkin, for me, but I still take Lemieux. Their goal-scoring beyond age 30 isn't a very important factor for me, anyway, as my main point of interest is the respective player's prime.

Between 1986-87 and 2000-01, Mario scored 557 goals in 636 games, or 0.88 goals per game over an almost 8-season span (albeit with huge breaks for time-off, injury, retirement, etc.). He did this while scoring at a 171-point pace.

From 2007-08 to 2015-16, Ovi scored 427 goals in 676 games, or 0.63 goals per game. He did this while scoring at a 93-point pace.

Giving Ovechkin every 'adjusted' advantage here, at best their goal scorinig will come out even (though I'm not even sure about that), but meanwhile Mario piles on about 65 more points per season than Ovi.

For extended, longevity of elite goal-scoring, I don't think there's any doubt now that Ovechkin is #1 in NHL history (he has now surpassed Howe and Richard and Hull Sr.). But I don't really care about extended longevity in player comparisons. (On the other hand, I do care about having a long-ish prime, which is why Brett Hull or Wayne Gretzky don't rank above Ovechkin.)

Anyway, it just depends on what aspect you value more.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Adjusted stats are nice to give us 'ballpark figues' for historical purposes, but they're not accurate in themselves and, anyway, I don't really need them when I've seen both players at their best.

As I said, it's basically splitting hairs between Lemieux and Ovechkin, for me, but I still take Lemieux. Their goal-scoring beyond age 30 isn't a very important factor for me, anyway, as my main point of interest is the respective player's prime.

Between 1986-87 and 2000-01, Mario scored 557 goals in 636 games, or 0.88 goals per game over an almost 8-season span (albeit with huge breaks for time-off, injury, retirement, etc.). He did this while scoring at a 171-point pace.

From 2007-08 to 2015-16, Ovi scored 427 goals in 676 games, or 0.63 goals per game. He did this while scoring at a 93-point pace.

Giving Ovechkin every 'adjusted' advantage here, at best their goal scorinig will come out even (though I'm not even sure about that), but meanwhile Mario piles on about 65 more points per season than Ovi.

For extended, longevity of elite goal-scoring, I don't think there's any doubt now that Ovechkin is #1 in NHL history (he has now surpassed Howe and Richard and Hull Sr.). But I don't really care about extended longevity in player comparisons. (On the other hand, I do care about having a long-ish prime, which is why Brett Hull or Wayne Gretzky don't rank above Ovechkin.)

Anyway, it just depends on what aspect you value more.

Indeed our criteria is fundamentally different.

IMO, the entire purpose of being a player on a team is to contribute as much as possible to said team, not to prove that you perhaps could have (but didn't).

Ovechkin could have sat out a lot more games, losing tons of value for his team, but significantly increasing his per-game stats. It runs counter to the team objective to increase his rating on that basis, but that is precisely what your criteria does.

For example, Ovechkin was playing while injured for many of these games. In 2011 and 2012 he played with a nagging knee injury, another lower body injury, and a fractured foot. He could have sat, but instead he played through those things and led his team in points and goals both seasons.

Under your criteria, he would have been a 'better' player had he provided precisely zero value to his team in those seasons. That is a fatal flaw IMO.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Ovechkin gutted it out, guys. Other players, maybe not so much...

 

[The Panther]

Indeed our criteria is fundamentally different.

IMO, the entire purpose of being a player on a team is to contribute as much as possible to said team, not to prove that you perhaps could have (but didn't).

Ovechkin could have sat out a lot more games, losing tons of value for his team, but significantly increasing his per-game stats. It runs counter to the team objective to increase his rating on that basis, but that is precisely what your criteria does.

For example, Ovechkin was playing while injured for many of these games. In 2011 and 2012 he played with a nagging knee injury, another lower body injury, and a fractured foot. He could have sat, but instead he played through those things and led his team in points and goals both seasons.

Under your criteria, he would have been a 'better' player had he provided precisely zero value to his team in those seasons. That is a fatal flaw IMO.

Um... no.

I am saying that Lemieux at his best was better than Ovechkin at his best.

Do you rank Ray Whitney higher than Pavel Bure?

 

[Gorskyontario]

In terms of pure goalscoring ability

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Bobby Hull
3. Mike Bossy
4. Wayne Gretzky
5. Brett Hull
6. Ovechkin
7. Gordie Howe
8. Maurice Richard
9. Phil Esposito
10. Guy Lafleur or Marcel Dionne

If Tim Kerr was healthier I would probably put him in the 10 spot,

 

[norrisnick]

Ovechkin gutted it out, guys. Other players, maybe not so much...

He certainly didn't take his ball and go home for 3 years...

 

[CrosbyIsKing87]

Great topic. My favorite aspect of the game - goal scoring. My list:
1. Lemieux -best toolkit + high season and career totals
2. Ovechkin - scores more ways than people give him credit for, will get 99's record
3. Gretzky - Can't put him lower than this because of sheer numbers
4. Bossy - Great toolkit and consistent
5. Bure - Best puckhandler and fastest of these guys
6. Howe - Could score before or after killing you
7. Hull - Best one-timer
8. Kurri - Laser one-timer and 700+ career goals
9. Matthews - Have to give him a slight edge over McDavid because he got 60+
10. McDavid - Ridiculous hands, may move up
Honorable mention: Dino Cicciarelli - 608 goals and most were hard earned in the crease. Has to count for something.

 

[Michael Farkas]

He certainly didn't take his ball and go home for 3 years...

He certainly didn't. Would his goal scoring ability be better or worse if he did?

 

[norrisnick]

He certainly didn't. Would his goal scoring ability be better or worse if he did?

Ability is but one piece. What you do with it is what matters. Longevity, IMO does factor into a measure of best. Otherwise Joe Malone hit the peak in 1920 and it's been all downhill since.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Ability is but one piece. What you do with it is what matters. Longevity, IMO does factor into a measure of best. Otherwise Joe Malone hit the peak in 1920 and it's been all downhill since.

Well, this person isn't looking for raw stats. It's easy to sort by goals and call it, so if ability is just "one piece", it must be the vast majority of it or else there isn't much to discuss, right?

So, at what point does longevity stop being a factor? If Ovechkin quit five years ago...would people wonder if he's a top 5 (or whatever) goal scorer because he isn't out there traipsing around still?

Jagr, who you sort of backdoor brought up, played 24 seasons in the NHL...I don't think longevity is the question. He's 4th all time in goals as a result...not a lot of "Jagr" entries on these lists though.

Proper talent evaluation is always the way to go. I'm not saying take a guy that played 12 games before film or anything...but I don't see a lot of Mike Gartner answers either for some reason...