Who has the better Cup window? Panthers or Leafs

[PaulD]

I swear I misread the post.. I read this:

Who is more likely to win a Cup.. the team that just won a cup and was in the finals the year before or the team that can't get past round 2. And I like the Leafs roster and how they're built but why are we comparing them to a team that has been to the finals 2 in a row and still has a strong roster?

I swear I misread the post.. I read this:

Who is more likely to win a Cup.. the team that just won a cup and was in the finals the year before or the team that can't get past round 2. And I like the Leafs roster and how they're built but why are we comparing them to a team that has been to the finals 2 in a row and still has a strong roster?

Leafers like to play "make believe"

 

[Sticksandsun]

Going forward it unquestionably is the Leafs, only because Florida will simply cap and age-out of its window, as happens with any great team. This isn't a slight against Florida or even a compliment to the Leafs. It's simply the nature of two teams at different stages.

Most of Florida's roster/core is in their mid to late 20s, taking them into their early 30s for the next 3-4 years.

Are you expecting a drop off in offense, defense, goaltending or 2 of 3, all of them?

The Leafs definitely have some great players but also need a true #1 goalie and cheap productive depth to offset the cap space eaten up by 4-5 players.

This is why I posed the question from earlier threads with Florida and Toronto.
Toronto seems close to going on a run but missing key pieces IMO, Florida will have to overcome playing so much hockey in the last 2 years, basically half of another season.

Also, Bob is either white hot or dark blue cold and Knight isn't there as a #1 yet, Leafs have similar goaltending questions but related to playoff experience.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I guess I don't get why OP cited two poll threads but didn't make this thread a poll.

... Anyways, Leafs automatically lose due to their cap structure. Even with Bobo at a hefty price, the Leafs still have four players being paid more. Gross.

 

[Sticksandsun]

I guess I don't get why OP cited two poll threads but didn't make this thread a poll.

... Anyways, Leafs automatically lose due to their cap structure. Even with Bobo at a hefty price, the Leafs still have four players being paid more. Gross.

I prefer reading and analyzing the opinions posted and not getting lost in the tally of a poll.
Kind of forces a reply instead of a quick vote and exit thread.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I prefer reading and analyzing the opinions posted and not getting lost in the tally of a poll.
Kind of forces a reply instead of a quick vote and exit thread.

Fair enough, I guess.

 

[x Tame Impala]

There's no need to overthink this. Florida has a much better salary cap structure in the near to mid term. I'm sure people will blame state income tax for that, but the Panthers are paying a hair less for Barkov, Reinhart and Forsling than the Leafs are for just Matthews and Nylander.

Toronto is also run by Brad Treliving. Easy call, IMO.

This is the answer. I’m not sure what happens with Marner and Tavares but I’m assuming they’ll try and sign Marner to another huge contract and perpetuate the cycle. The Leafs core players don’t care about winning. They want to make as much money as they can and have great regular seasons.

Florida is a better built team and they’re in a great position going forward specifically because Ekblad, Bobrovsky, and Bennet are UFA’s. They can let these guys walk if they see fit and use that cap space accordingly.

 

[Evilhomer]

Most of Florida's roster/core is in their mid to late 20s, taking them into their early 30s for the next 3-4 years.

Are you expecting a drop off in offense, defense, goaltending or 2 of 3, all of them?

The Leafs definitely have some great players but also need a true #1 goalie and cheap productive depth to offset the cap space eaten up by 4-5 players.

This is why I posed the question from earlier threads with Florida and Toronto.
Toronto seems close to going on a run but missing key pieces IMO, Florida will have to overcome playing so much hockey in the last 2 years, basically half of another season.

Also, Bob is either white hot or dark blue cold and Knight isn't there as a #1 yet, Leafs have similar goaltending questions but related to playoff experience.

I think people are over-thinking this. Florida has been to two straight Cup finals. How many more do they have in them? Are they realistically going to bump up against the 1980s Islanders or Oilers? The odds are that Florida will follow Tampa's path. Eventually age and the cap will take their toll on Florida, that's all. The better comparison for me would have been Toronto to a team in a similar situation - maybe the Rangers, Wild, etc. - teams that have not just come off two Cup final runs.

 

[Space umpire]

Reporting states Sam Reinhart would pay 1.1 mil more in taxes if he played in California.

1.4mil more in taxes to play in Toronto.

1.5 mil more in taxes to play in nyc.

It’s more than 10%. His aav is under 9. It’s close to 15%.

I’d guess Sam doesn’t care as much about palm trees as he does millions of dollars.

Your numbers are flawed. A) You fail to account for road games being taxed by that state.
B) You fail to consider signing bonuses which are taxed at a players home states rate ( not where they play, where they legally reside.

Matthews for instance has nearly all of his pay as signing bonus. His legal residency is in Arizona. Which has no state income tax.

Plus you keep stating 10% which is telling that you are either making the number up but think it’s correct or lying on purpose to help your case.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

Hey! There's a lot of respect there.

How do you know it's spring in Toronto? The Leafs are out.

What do you call 20+ Maple Leaf players at the Stanley Cup Finals? Spectators.

What's more numerous than the grains of sand on Florida beaches..

The excuses in Toronto.

 

[PaulD]

The team that has proven they know how to do it versus the team that has proven they wilt in the playoffs? Tough one.

yea. the thread trys to imply it's a tough one. I chuckled out loud just reading it.

 

[PaulD]

What I don't understand is why the Panthers are always being compared with the Leafs, and vice versa. Seems like it's been that way for several years.

Panthers are the team to beat.
Bruins get compared with them
Bolts, Leafs too ......all Atantic play off teams.
No other team in the Atlantic teams ever make the play offs.

 

[Stephen]

Most of Florida's roster/core is in their mid to late 20s, taking them into their early 30s for the next 3-4 years.

Are you expecting a drop off in offense, defense, goaltending or 2 of 3, all of them?

The Leafs definitely have some great players but also need a true #1 goalie and cheap productive depth to offset the cap space eaten up by 4-5 players.

This is why I posed the question from earlier threads with Florida and Toronto.
Toronto seems close to going on a run but missing key pieces IMO, Florida will have to overcome playing so much hockey in the last 2 years, basically half of another season.

Also, Bob is either white hot or dark blue cold and Knight isn't there as a #1 yet, Leafs have similar goaltending questions but related to playoff experience.

The question you should be asking is whether Florida can quality control and maintain the standard they achieved in 2023-24 with loss of personnel and wear and tear. Barring unforeseen roster changes and behavioral shift in the Leafs, I don't see a measuring stick for Florida at all.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Indeed. However, the league has revenue sharing in place to compensate for some teams being in better markets, plus there is a salary cap to significantly reduce the advantage.

The tax advantage has no such checks and balances which makes it a more significant advantage that is also outside teams' control. They can strive to increase revenue or make their location more desirable, but they can't adjust their state tax. Some teams effectively operate under a different salary cap than others.

Therefore it is not a "lazy argument", but rather a very valid one even if it isn't the only one.

Tampa and Florida both in the top half of revenue now.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Tampa and Florida both in the top half of revenue now.

Nowhere in my post did I state that they were beneficiaries of revenue sharing, only that revenue sharing is a tool against the advantage of, well, higher revenue.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

This Leafs' core has basically proven that they are not capable of a serious Cup run.

Treliving should have blown it up, but he's apparently committed to perpetuating playoff failure as long as possible.

 

[Space umpire]

If you consider “local” things such as taxes I feel there needs to be 2 more things included in cap (cost/income) determining.
A) Bonus monies paid and the tax rate of each individual players legal residence.
B) Commercials and sponsorships by each player.
Using the Leafs as example… they are insanely popular in the Toronto metro region. I’d venture (guessing) while it’s the star players leading the way a guy like Matthews makes more doing commercials locally than the entire Panther team combined.

That is millions of additional dollars paid to players in certain markets that is not available in all markets.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nowhere in my post did I state that they were beneficiaries of revenue sharing, only that revenue sharing is a tool against the advantage of, well, higher revenue.

Also keep in mind, 35% of revenue sharing is from playoff gate receipts.

 

[Stephen]

This Leafs' core has basically proven that they are not capable of a serious Cup run.

Treliving should have blown it up, but he's apparently committed to perpetuating playoff failure as long as possible.

Unless this group of Leafs somehow takes the next level in development and goes on an unexpected growth and maturation… kind of like Florida actually did… I don’t think they have it in them. They’ve been pretty flat line on being who they are… but I also think it’s unrealistic for a 100 point team to start blowing it up for change mandate reasons. Like Carolina probably isn’t winning a cup soon but why would they dismantle a competitive team?

But getting back to the OP, comparing Florida to Toronto is like asking for a compliment.

 

[BLONG7]

who has the better cup window the team that won 1 round in 20 years or the team who just won the cup gee I wonder

Nailed it.........shut er down boys

 

[featherhawk]

panthers, they are the defending champs...the leafs have a long road to go before the reach window status...

 

[brentashton]

Leafs

 

[Dread Clawz]

If you consider “local” things such as taxes I feel there needs to be 2 more things included in cap (cost/income) determining.
A) Bonus monies paid and the tax rate of each individual players legal residence.
B) Commercials and sponsorships by each player.
Using the Leafs as example… they are insanely popular in the Toronto metro region. I’d venture (guessing) while it’s the star players leading the way a guy like Matthews makes more doing commercials locally than the entire Panther team combined.

That is millions of additional dollars paid to players in certain markets that is not available in all markets.

Exactly, "taxes" is dumb and lazy.

 

[Chips]

Your numbers are flawed. A) You fail to account for road games being taxed by that state.
B) You fail to consider signing bonuses which are taxed at a players home states rate ( not where they play, where they legally reside.

Matthews for instance has nearly all of his pay as signing bonus. His legal residency is in Arizona. Which has no state income tax.

Plus you keep stating 10% which is telling that you are either making the number up but think it’s correct or lying on purpose to help your case.

I used to think this, and I actually do think it still applies to players on US teams


But Canada basically changed its mind and decided that NHL signing bonuses are salary and not “real” signing bonuses. That’s what the Tavares tax case is about.


That said, 1. The Leafs are more able to max out signing bonuses that other teams (some stars have tons of real salary). That means they get paid sooner and can invest sooner.

2. Toronto stars have infinitely higher endorsement potential. Marner is #2 on his team and isn’t generational tier

Yet makes more endorsement money than any combination of several Florida/Tampa stars combined

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Well the Panthers won, so probably them.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Well the Panthers actually HAVE a window, so I’ll go with them.