Who has the better Cup window? Panthers or Leafs

[tmg]

You don’t have to take my word for it

You don’t have to take the leagues word for it


The three lowest ratings cup finals are in the past 5 years. Sorry not sorry; we don’t want to watch Dallas versus Florida versus Las Vegas. This period has set the all time low in viewership. The only one that was different included McDavid. We all sat and watched because McDavid is special

A little fun context:

The 4 lowest rated World Series ever have been in the past 5 years.

The two lowest rated Super Bowls since 1970 have been in the last 4 years.

Common theme? Broadcast television is fading fast and the antiquated Nielsen Ratings System does not accurately reflect actual eyeballs on the games anymore.

Either the NHL is suffering championship interest loss miraculously coincident with both the NFL and MLB … or there’s other factors that are fudging the numbers in parallel for all three.

 

[StlBigFly]

Lol Edmonton and Toronto's problems are self-inflicted. Edmonton is paying Nurse almost $10M a year. Toronto gave a stupid contract to Tavares and then gave out stupid contracts to their young RFAs, instead of playing hardball with them. That threw their whole salary structure out of whack. Look at Winnipeg, they have better management and they are accordingly much higher in the standings. Ottawa has had poor management for awhile. They are just now turning the corner after years of being in the basement. Montreal had bad management for a long time too and that's why they had to rebuild. Vancouver had bad management for a long time, they recently brought in Rutherford and Allvin and now recently have been a top team with a good future. Calgary has long been mired in bad management/ownership. New York has a lot of flaws and they are now coming to light and they are one of the worst teams this season. Detroit went for it for over 20 years and are now paying the repurcussions for it. It was a long uphill battle for them starting from scratch, and Yzerman hasnt had much lottery luck either. It's not rocket science. New Jersey did a good rebuild and had some lottery luck and now they are a top team with a very bright future.

The rest of the league is supposed to help fix Toronto and Edmonton's problems just because they suck at managing their teams and screwed themselves? Watch Edmonton give Bouchard 9-10 M.

You’re absolutely right about rebuilding.

So:

What if I told you that Darnell Nurse would have been about 8.4-8.8AAV if he had signed in Florida? His take home pay would actually go up a little bit too.

What would Edmonton do with the space? Would they be in as much cap hell? (Probably, lol)

What if every single non-elc player is like this? (For the most part they are)

When Bouchard comes due his agent will compare him to…it doesn’t really matter who: every offensive rhd taking the top role is paid.

Bouchard will get a comparable contract. They’ll put Dougie Hamiltons last deal along with a half dozen others on the table and show why they think Bouchard deserves more.

Edmonton can either trade him/let him walk or sign him to that precedent driven contract. It would be rare for Bouchard to take a discounted deal - but it is legal for him to do so. I think they should all take every penny they can. The job is hard on the body.

They don’t get an option to pay him less, like what Florida pays Gustav Forsling.

This is bad for parity and is the reason a tax free state has won 4 out of the last 5 cups, was the runner up the time they didn’t win.

The system that restricts player pay is also now picking winners and losers. Yzerman isn’t so amazing when he has to sign players for normal amounts.

A little fun context:

The 4 lowest rated World Series ever have been in the past 5 years.

The two lowest rated Super Bowls since 1970 have been in the last 4 years.

Common theme? Broadcast television is fading fast and the antiquated Nielsen Ratings System does not accurately reflect actual eyeballs on the games anymore.

Either the NHL is suffering championship interest loss miraculously coincident with both the NFL and MLB … or there’s other factors that are fudging the numbers in parallel for all three.

Huge hole in my thesis ty.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm gonna go with the team that has as many cup wins in the last 6 months as the Leafs have series wins in the last 19 years

 

[Dread Clawz]

You’re absolutely right about rebuilding.

So:

What if I told you that Darnell Nurse would have been about 8.4-8.8AAV if he had signed in Florida? His take home pay would actually go up a little bit too.

What would Edmonton do with the space? Would they be in as much cap hell? (Probably, lol)

What if every single non-elc player is like this? (For the most part they are)

When Bouchard comes due his agent will compare him to (it doesn’t matter literally every offensive rhd is paid).

Bouchard will get a comparable contract. Edmonton can either trade him/let him walk or sign him to that precedent driven contract.

They don’t get an option to pay him less, like what Florida pays Gustav Forsling.


Huge hole in my thesis ty.

Lol Zito would never pay Nurse even close to that much. Again, management matters. My point about Bouchard is that Edmonton's team structure and lack of depth until recently is what has inflated Bouchard 's numbers and seeming importance to the team. The reality is that he's a pp specialist who is actually one of the worst defenders at defending in the league. He'll probably get around 10, but he's actually worth 4-5.

I think even Zito was shocked when Forsling signed 8 yrs at 5.75. I know every Panthers fan was. But again, management and culture matter. Forsling probably decided to take a massive discount because he values winning and it's as good a place as any if you're looking for that, and he's treated well there and he loves the lockeroom. Probably also because Florida gave him a real chance, picking him off waivers and immediately giving him big minutes. Zito's scouts and advisors all clamored for him to claim him. They had scouted him extensively in the NHL and AHL and thought he had massive untapped potential. Forsling 's contract is the epitome of Florida's great management and the culture they've built.

 

[Theodore450]

Is this a serious question?
Panthers will be a consistent cup contender that has already won.

Toronto hasn’t done anything

 

[gritdash60]

Is this a serious question?
Panthers will be a consistent cup contender that has already won.

Toronto hasn’t done anything

They are staring out of the window dude, seeing Oilers out there really going for it.

They got a window for the cup, just a one they are looking out of.

 

[hirawl]

Leafs' cup window? <Syntax error>

 

[wetcoast]

The team that has been to the last two cup finals and won one of them

It's really hard to go to the finals 3 years in a row and I think florida will be in tough but it's the Leafs who also have problems.

Didn't vote but if a gun was held to my head would take the Leafs as I think florida doesn't have the assets to trade for a piece if they need it and the Leafs do.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Too early for April Fools. Toronto?

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Toronto does have a pretty good Stanley Cup window:

 

[Ratsreign]

Nobody is that dumb.

Best thing that ever happened in Boston

 

[sxvnert]

Weak bait.

 

[Spirits]

Florida, even if they let the sweep of a very inferior team slip through their fingers in the SCF.

 

[Daz28]

Hard to say, but the fact the Leafs are the only ones who listened to me about Stolly being for real puts them into this debate.

 

[Laus723]

You’re absolutely right about rebuilding.

So:

What if I told you that Darnell Nurse would have been about 8.4-8.8AAV if he had signed in Florida? His take home pay would actually go up a little bit too.

What would Edmonton do with the space? Would they be in as much cap hell? (Probably, lol)

What if every single non-elc player is like this? (For the most part they are)

When Bouchard comes due his agent will compare him to…it doesn’t really matter who: every offensive rhd taking the top role is paid.

Bouchard will get a comparable contract. They’ll put Dougie Hamiltons last deal along with a half dozen others on the table and show why they think Bouchard deserves more.

Edmonton can either trade him/let him walk or sign him to that precedent driven contract. It would be rare for Bouchard to take a discounted deal - but it is legal for him to do so. I think they should all take every penny they can. The job is hard on the body.

They don’t get an option to pay him less, like what Florida pays Gustav Forsling.

This is bad for parity and is the reason a tax free state has won 4 out of the last 5 cups, was the runner up the time they didn’t win.

The system that restricts player pay is also now picking winners and losers. Yzerman isn’t so amazing when he has to sign players for normal amounts.


Huge hole in my thesis ty.

That summer, Chicago traded for Jones and Bowman chose to massively overpay him. Also up were Nurse and Werenski. Werenski was also signed to a similar deal to Jones, and Holland signed Nurse to the same. None of them were worth that at the time, or now. Bowman F’d things up, but Holland didn’t have to follow suit. Reality is, it was bad timing/luck on the Nurse contract, but also bad management.

I’ve been saying that to every “taxes” guy that brings it up, there’s many factors involved, not just “taxes.”

 

[SeanAveryTheGreatOne]

better comparison would be Sabres and Leafs

 

[koyvoo]

What a thread.

I was going to say that I miss quality, clever online trolling but there are 5 pages of replies. OP clearly reeled in plenty of folks.

 

[AnonoJet]

Question ignores a dark reality. Leafs live in a room with no windows.

 

[WarriorofTime]

So:

What if I told you that Darnell Nurse would have been about 8.4-8.8AAV if he had signed in Florida? His take home pay would actually go up a little bit too.

What would Edmonton do with the space? Would they be in as much cap hell? (Probably, lol)

What if every single non-elc player is like this? (For the most part they are)

When Bouchard comes due his agent will compare him to…it doesn’t really matter who: every offensive rhd taking the top role is paid.

Making excuses for the Nurse contract is just weak. Edmonton put themselves into the situation they did because they "double bridged" him.

2 year deal after his ELC ended, then another 2 year deal after that. They waited too long to make a decision, and then faced with the prospect of him walking directly into UFA one year in the future after he had a good year in the weak North-only division, and a market condition partially set by RIGHT-HANDED Defenseman Seth Jones receiving 8x$9.5 million, they ended up giving a LEFT-HANDED Defenseman Darnell Nurse only slightly less than that.

It was a self-inflicted error that was pretty obvious the moment it occurred. Good GMs don't do that, whether the contract is slightly discounted by state tax savings or not.

 

[Ratsreign]

Question ignores a dark reality. Leafs live in a room with no windows.

It’s the only way they can get any privacy

 

[End on a Hinote]

Obviously Florida. Common sense honestly considering the endless perks of playing in Florida that are frequently mentioned here.

 

[StlBigFly]

Making excuses for the Nurse contract is just weak. Edmonton put themselves into the situation they did because they "double bridged" him.

2 year deal after his ELC ended, then another 2 year deal after that. They waited too long to make a decision, and then faced with the prospect of him walking directly into UFA one year in the future after he had a good year in the weak North-only division, and a market condition partially set by RIGHT-HANDED Defenseman Seth Jones receiving 8x$9.5 million, they ended up giving a LEFT-HANDED Defenseman Darnell Nurse only slightly less than that.

It was a self-inflicted error that was pretty obvious the moment it occurred. Good GMs don't do that, whether the contract is slightly discounted by state tax savings or not.

Both you and Laus are right about Nurse but I do have sympathy for the Northern teams. I can’t defend this too much, and I think Nurse is an unfortunate case of “being close to great but not close enough”.

It seems the Nurse deal was the …. I’d describe it as the tip toe. From my perspective it looks like both the team and the player were figuring out the final role. Minutes got pushed hard at times and then decisions were made. No excuses though..it’s a tough situation.

A lot of the Northern guys during this time either pushed their final year and thus qualifying offer to the moon while leaving 1-2 years - the stereotype example being Matthew Tkachuk, or tried to double bridge/get to ufa via a 5/6 year after elc the stereotype being Marner/Matthews or Nurse.

In either case - it seems the objective of a player doing that is to force either a giant payday or gtfo.

So when Nurse does it too…I mean he looked okay so …. I mean it’s tough…

I’m sure they looked at letting him go and I wonder what that plan looked like. It would be tough to choose to let him go perhaps. Perhaps not. Idk.

I will concede that I’m wrong about some of the management stuff. I’m upgrading you to asterisk. Merry Xmas. FWIW my issue has absolutely nothing to do with the fans of teams and everything to do with what I feel is the league being disengenuous. I don’t think this situation needs a heavy handed fix and I feel the relief it would provide only strengthens the league. I feel they have a track record of being disengenuous and gas lighting. I feel it’s the same with concussions, and they should be better but anyway, no soapboxes on holidays.

 

[T REX]

The Florida team’s window doesn’t matter. It’ll be as wide open as possible until the cba is adjusted or climate change swallows the coast.

The Florida teams get to sign players in a hard cap environment at a substantial discount due to taxation.

It’s a hard cap and they circumvent it via discounted aav due to local laws. You’re arguing with a wall if you disagree with this. It’s like 8-12% total discount. I do not acknowledge their cups. None of them. No asterisks - that involves acknowledgment.

The NHL is sold as a level playing field, more or less, for about 25 teams and there’s the small handful that basically get a 50/50 at the conference finals every year. They’ll continue to get the best deals at deadlines as players with move control all want to go there to make 8–12% more money on their existing checks.

If the cba doesn’t fix this climate change will.

You’ll all get tired of every single year Florida Florida Texas in the late playoffs. It isn’t about team building or windows for them. They’ll always be able to overcome tragic management to compete because they get 8-12% more players than 25 teams.

SO you don't recognize Tampa's either?

Posts like this should not be allowed.

It's basically trolling two different fanbases.

Same as Covid cup crap.

And completely OFF TOPIC.

I am sorry the world did this to you. Merry Christmas!

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

“Leafs” and “Cup window” is a funny combination.

 

[StlBigFly]

SO you don't recognize Tampa's either?

Posts like this should not be allowed.

It's basically trolling two different fanbases.

Same as Covid cup crap.

And completely OFF TOPIC.

I am sorry the world did this to you. Merry Christmas!

I’m answering the question about Florida’s cup window and posts that you disagree with being banned is a fun concept. I’m so sorry you disagree with a random strangers opinion and I hope you can make it through your day after this gigantic off topic trauma about Florida’s cup window multiple pages deep on an obscure thread on an obscure website. I prefer my personal opinions to be intentionally bombastic not to insult or troll, but to emphasize critical nature of opinion.

I think it is very important that the league takes a baby step towards a different direction sooner rather than later. It is in every teams interest that Florida’s cup window eventually has a “temporarily closed” position. I don’t want it slammed shut nor pick the time it does close a little. I don’t believe the current path allows that: I truly do. The process used by no tax teams works. Look at the cup winners. It’s the model all 6 will follow. It will damage the other 26.

I believe the total damage goes beyond the “hurr they’re better I’m mad”. It splinters comparable contracts. It causes more movement clauses. It causes players to get wildly different pay when traded if locations are between groups. It causes competitive imbalance due to deadline move clause players all wanting to go because it’s literally a lot more money and who wouldn’t. It causes competitive imbalance as the average pay per marquee player is higher in some markets. And I think it’s fair to say there’s a chance it causes real resentment among the ownership groups. Gms are talking about it, notably Buffalo but also Calgary and others. Bill Daly just gave a quote about it days ago. It’s accelerating and needs to not.

The fix is a nudge the other way similar to how the fed manages interest rates. But if it gets real bad this won’t work anymore, and I believe every term deal signed makes it worse. When it gets bad enough and if they don’t act in time I predict the fix will be heavy handed: forced compliance with prescedent or loss of hard cap.

I’m not here calling people names or digging into the ugly parts of the issue.

Notably, your post, which is a complaint about content, does not contain any content about Florida or Toronto’s cup window, which is the topic of this thread and my content.

Good job.

(If you disagree with my opinion and think it should get 0 attention then replying to it with questions is a challenging choice and is one that I would neither take nor recommend?)