Who does LA pick #2

[Bandit]

I don’t think we can go wrong with either of them but I still prefer the center over the winger. As long and we don’t go all Hickey with this pick, we’re gonna have a real nice player for a long time.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Yea for sure. It's not often that a guy comes along with no concerns like Laf. The best thing about the concerns with QB is they can absolutely be fixed. It's much harder to change things like trying to get someone to shoot more, or if they have IQ problems. I prefer QB at #2 over Stutzle for a couple reasons, the key to me is that 10 month gap. When watching the kid on the ice, he's so physically mature that it's easy to forget that he might not even have a drivers license yet. I think Stutzle is a little ahead now, but thinking about Byfield 10 months from now leads to me think he will be even more impressive.

Trying not to nitpick, but QB is 7 months younger. Not 10 months.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

Make it easier and deal #2 overall to the Sens for #3 overall and their #21 pick overall (Isles pick they got) Still get either TS or QB and a top prospect at 21 (Mysak, Ghule, etc Lappiere if concussion no issue. Had an amzing Hlinka)

 

[Fishhead]

Trying not to nitpick, but QB is 7 months younger. Not 10 months.

Yea sorry, I was thinking of Laf, not Stutz there.

 

[Statto]

I read all this and can summarize your arguments here: “I’m willing to look at all the upside and ignore all of the risk, no matter how apparent it is.”

I’ll give you some real numbers...he only scored 82 points in 45g last season. Other comparable CHL players in the same draft: Rossi 120 points in 56g, Lafreniere 112 points in 52g, Perfetti 111 points in 61g. Point is at the top of the draft, the guys are all scoring 110+ points in their draft season...QB not only was hurt, which is often a big ding in your juniors draft season traditionally, he was more on a 90 point pace...that doesn’t translate into 75 points in the NHL. And he had no impressive showings at any of the participated tournaments this year either, I believe.

All QB has on an elite level is potential. I know this is HF but potential may be nice to dream about, it’s actually a big negative in the real world when comparing to surer things. It’s probably why multiple NHL scouts have him 6th overall and not top 3.

Your numbers are fine but he’s very much younger than most of his draft year peers, that’s hugely significant. A key fact you omitted as was the quality of his teammates.

I’ve acknowledged there are risks with every prospect. I don’t focus too heavily on them as it’s about upside and hitting their ceiling. I could hammer Stützle and point out he has a poor shot and only scored 7 goals in a poor defensive league, against mediocre goaltenders. He gets plenty of space to look good because the ice is bigger and teams do not defend well. Yes, Byfield has his own risks but maybe being 6’ 6” is really reaching if you’re looking for one. Consensus on his defence is that he’s good, if not Kopitar good. The footage is all well and good, but it’s one cherry picked game and doesn’t represent the consensus. Players at that age will occasionally make mistakes, I’d fully expect it. The question is do errors get repeated, are flaws corrected and are players coachable? By all account both players are very coachable. Hence my lack of concern.

I haven’t hammer Stützle on the risks either, mainly because I focus on the upside, for both players. Whilst I’ve listed the risks, I don’t see them as being huge risks and won’t bring them up again - I’m just making a point. I see a kid playing against men at his age and figure he will adapt. I also see the same ability to adapt and learn in Byfield.

I get and respect it if Stützle is your guy, but I think you are being overly critical of Byfield. I enjoy the debate though

 

[KINGS17]

Side note: Craig Button said if he was LA, he would pick Byfield. Was with Jesse Cohen on All the Kings Men podcast.

Now, I am worried.

 

[King'sPawn]

Why Quinton Byfield at 1st Overall Isn’t All That Crazy

Another article arguing Byfield at 1.

 

[FrozenKing18]

Why Quinton Byfield at 1st Overall Isn’t All That Crazy

Another article arguing Byfield at 1.

Has there ever been a consensus 1st overall pick that ended up getting drafted 2nd overall?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[BigKing]

Your numbers are fine but he’s very much younger than most of his draft year peers, that’s hugely significant. A key fact you omitted as was the quality of his teammates.

I’ve acknowledged there are risks with every prospect. I don’t focus too heavily on them as it’s about upside and hitting their ceiling. I could hammer Stützle and point out he has a poor shot and only scored 7 goals in a poor defensive league, against mediocre goaltenders. He gets plenty of space to look good because the ice is bigger and teams do not defend well. Yes, Byfield has his own risks but maybe being 6’ 6” is really reaching if you’re looking for one. Consensus on his defence is that he’s good, if not Kopitar good. The footage is all well and good, but it’s one cherry picked game and doesn’t represent the consensus. Players at that age will occasionally make mistakes, I’d fully expect it. The question is do errors get repeated, are flaws corrected and are players coachable? By all account both players are very coachable. Hence my lack of concern.

I haven’t hammer Stützle on the risks either, mainly because I focus on the upside, for both players. Whilst I’ve listed the risks, I don’t see them as being huge risks and won’t bring them up again - I’m just making a point. I see a kid playing against men at his age and figure he will adapt. I also see the same ability to adapt and learn in Byfield.

I get and respect it if Stützle is your guy, but I think you are being overly critical of Byfield. I enjoy the debate though

The numbers aren't fine. This 90 point pace is a number pulled out of thin air to knock Byfield. He basically had the same PPG as Perfetti so if "pace" is going to be used, the correct figure is above 110 points which basically blows this part of his argument out of the water.

This is how fake news starts to become a widely held belief haha. Byfield put up one of the best U18 seasons in OHL history and it wasn't because he was pacing for 90 points. I mean, he had 82 points in 45 games. He missed time for the WJC which can't be held against him. He missed six games with a wrist injury but came back and put up four points in his first three games back. If you want to hold the injury against him and then do some sort of lowering of his PPG because you think the injury will lower his performance, I still think you are closer to 100 then you are to 90.

 

[KopitarFAN]

So we won't see Stützle again before draft night.

 

[cyclones22]

The numbers aren't fine. This 90 point pace is a number pulled out of thin air to knock Byfield. He basically had the same PPG as Perfetti so if "pace" is going to be used, the correct figure is above 110 points which basically blows this part of his argument out of the water.

This is how fake news starts to become a widely held belief haha. Byfield put up one of the best U18 seasons in OHL history and it wasn't because he was pacing for 90 points. I mean, he had 82 points in 45 games. He missed time for the WJC which can't be held against him. He missed six games with a wrist injury but came back and put up four points in his first three games back. If you want to hold the injury against him and then do some sort of lowering of his PPG because you think the injury will lower his performance, I still think you are closer to 100 then you are to 90.

Exactly. I scoffed when I read "only 82 points in 45 games". The Lukeman has been one of my favorite posters in this thread. Dropping charts and stats like loose change. The numbers don't lie. The kid is a monster production-wise. Another Lukeman research tidbit that seemingly gets glossed over: "Reminder that Byfield was #1 in the OHL last season in scoring goals and primary assists per 60 minutes of play. You don't do that playing as a 17 yo and not have talent.".

 

[Statto]

The numbers aren't fine. This 90 point pace is a number pulled out of thin air to knock Byfield. He basically had the same PPG as Perfetti so if "pace" is going to be used, the correct figure is above 110 points which basically blows this part of his argument out of the water.

This is how fake news starts to become a widely held belief haha. Byfield put up one of the best U18 seasons in OHL history and it wasn't because he was pacing for 90 points. I mean, he had 82 points in 45 games. He missed time for the WJC which can't be held against him. He missed six games with a wrist injury but came back and put up four points in his first three games back. If you want to hold the injury against him and then do some sort of lowering of his PPG because you think the injury will lower his performance, I still think you are closer to 100 then you are to 90.

Of course you are correct... I should have said ‘fine’ as they lacked context, some of which I pointed out and you completed. I didn’t bother with the numbers because you can present them in so many ways to tell the story you want. It would be easy to point out Stützle relied heavily on secondary assists compared to Byfield but I don’t think that’s fair without seeing the play.

Stats (hence my user name) are something I’ve done to death over the years and raw points don’t tell the story, they are just the headlines... the context is the most important bit of info. It’s like plus/minus... it’s a great stat but gets criticised because people try to use it out of context when it’s useless. I digress though...

The skill level in that league overall seemed on par with the AHL, I would say very similar actually

I disagree, the DEL wishes it was AHL standard. I’ve seen a few games in person and I’d place it somewhere just about ECHL. Many of its NA imports are ECHL journeymen, with a few AHL games. The odd guy has a few NHL games but most of them are in semi retirement. The goaltending specifically I would align much more closely with ECHL, perhaps below. Put it this way, in the first 5 season of the European Champions Hockey League (CHL) (2012-2017) - according to the UK Elite League website - no DEL team managed to win away from home on UK ice. The UK Elite league is maybe ECHL standard (I’m being generous, bias toward my home country), which tells you where the DEL is at.

I completely agree with your view on the European league hierarchy.

 

[Bandit]

Has there ever been a consensus 1st overall pick that ended up getting drafted 2nd overall?

It almost happened the year the Kings drafted Doughty. I’m certain we would have taken him with the first pick.

 

[King'sPawn]

Has there ever been a consensus 1st overall pick that ended up getting drafted 2nd overall?

You could say Nolan Patrick was a "consensus" first overall, until his season was changed quite a bit by injury. Nico Hischier had a meteoric rise to first overall. I honestly don't even recall how high he was ranked prior to the season starting.

 

[cyclones22]

It almost happened the year the Kings drafted Doughty. I’m certain we would have taken him with the first pick.

Even back then we speculated that Dean might not choose Stamkos at number 1. Especially because of his credo of building from goaltending out. So it's not a crazy assertion at all. For what it's worth, not much, Luc mentioned it on a Zoom interview that he believed Doughty would have been a controversial but likely pick at #1 had the Kings won the draft lottery. Stamkos is a fine player, but he has to be the most non-descript high goal scoring #1 pick ever. Not a difference maker thus far IMO.

 

[Statto]

It almost happened the year the Kings drafted Doughty. I’m certain we would have taken him with the first pick.

I think it was an interview I read/saw with Yanetti that confirms they would have taken DD 1OA.

edit: Just read Cyclones post, he’s reminded me it was Luc that said it.

 

[HookKing]

Even back then we speculated that Dean might not choose Stamkos at number 1. Especially because of his credo of building from goaltending out. So it's not a crazy assertion at all. For what it's worth, not much, Luc mentioned it on a Zoom interview that he believed Doughty would have been a controversial but likely pick at #1 had the Kings won the draft lottery. Stamkos is a fine player, but he has to be the most non-descript high goal scoring #1 pick ever. Not a difference maker thus far IMO.

Luc engaging in a little creative revisionism. I distinctly remember him pining for Stamkos in an interview before the draft.

 

[redcard]

Luc engaging in a little creative revisionism. I distinctly remember him pining for Stamkos in an interview before the draft.

I'm pretty sure the extent of Luc's responsibilities in his role with the Kings back in 2008 was limited to picking out the logos on the beer cups at Staples. Not likely he had Dean's ear on the matter, gotta lot more swing now though.

 

[Fishhead]

I disagree, the DEL wishes it was AHL standard. I’ve seen a few games in person and I’d place it somewhere just about ECHL. Many of its NA imports are ECHL journeymen, with a few AHL games. The odd guy has a few NHL games but most of them are in semi retirement. The goaltending specifically I would align much more closely with ECHL, perhaps below. Put it this way, in the first 5 season of the European Champions Hockey League (CHL) (2012-2017) - according to the UK Elite League website - no DEL team managed to win away from home on UK ice. The UK Elite league is maybe ECHL standard (I’m being generous, bias toward my home country), which tells you where the DEL is at.

I completely agree with your view on the European league hierarchy.

Yea it was pretty poor. I was watching some of the better teams, if there is a gap between the top and the bottom I could definitely see some pretty abysmal play. If they lost to the UK, not exactly a hockey hotbed of talent, I was being too generous.

 

[BigKing]

I'm not saying it is happening on this particular board, but I do believe there is an element of truth to Pronman's belief that there is a little bit of "Black QB" stuff being tossed at Byfield.

The main prospects board is a real interesting place in regards to Byfield. His own thread hasn't been posted in for nine days now, which is surprising for a guy in the 2/3OA discussion. What you do see, however, is a lot of posters choosing him as the bust of the draft in multiple threads.

I just read one poster saying he thinks Byfield "won't bust completely" but will be a player that "oozes skill but wants you leaving more". No problem with that, but then he goes on to say "Not saying he'll be an Anthony or Chris Stewart level player". Yikes. His game is nothing like those two so I wonder why that comparison is made...

I'm not an SJW and I'm not on the Woke Train. There is just this narrative taking hold of Byfield having a low hockey IQ but the tape doesn't back it up. You have people on HF saying he'll bust because "of his brains" and you can tell they haven't done the research. Like, is a Blues fan studying the top of the 2020 draft? Probably not, but he knows that Byfield has a poor brain.

People can deny that it is a thing, but who are your best black players in NHL history? Are they #1 centers or are they generally power forward wings?

I'm not saying he has an amazing hockey IQ but I'm also saying I don't see why it is described as low or poor. I don't think that the Kings scouting staff is impacted by this line of thinking since they've already drafted a black center that isn't a power-forward type in Thomas (who fell in the draft) but you are kidding yourself if this isn't painting some people's opinions in the hockey world.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Perfetti over Raymond? I can't see that.

 

[Basilisk]

Why Quinton Byfield at 1st Overall Isn’t All That Crazy

Another article arguing Byfield at 1.

Wasn't there some 2017 article arguing Vilardi @ #1?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm not saying it is happening on this particular board, but I do believe there is an element of truth to Pronman's belief that there is a little bit of "Black QB" stuff being tossed at Byfield.

The main prospects board is a real interesting place in regards to Byfield. His own thread hasn't been posted in for nine days now, which is surprising for a guy in the 2/3OA discussion. What you do see, however, is a lot of posters choosing him as the bust of the draft in multiple threads.

I just read one poster saying he thinks Byfield "won't bust completely" but will be a player that "oozes skill but wants you leaving more". No problem with that, but then he goes on to say "Not saying he'll be an Anthony or Chris Stewart level player". Yikes. His game is nothing like those two so I wonder why that comparison is made...

I'm not an SJW and I'm not on the Woke Train. There is just this narrative taking hold of Byfield having a low hockey IQ but the tape doesn't back it up. You have people on HF saying he'll bust because "of his brains" and you can tell they haven't done the research. Like, is a Blues fan studying the top of the 2020 draft? Probably not, but he knows that Byfield has a poor brain.

People can deny that it is a thing, but who are your best black players in NHL history? Are they #1 centers or are they generally power forward wings?

I'm not saying he has an amazing hockey IQ but I'm also saying I don't see why it is described as low or poor. I don't think that the Kings scouting staff is impacted by this line of thinking since they've already drafted a black center that isn't a power-forward type in Thomas (who fell in the draft) but you are kidding yourself if this isn't painting some people's opinions in the hockey world.

You’re right, it’s pretty telling when he’s being compared to other black players. Shows you how shallow and closed minded those people are.

 

[LAKings88]

I’m going Byfield now:

A year younger is big factor.

Training with Roberts.

He can dangle and is fast.

Better scorer than Stutzle.

Racked up assist too.

Carried his not so good team.

WJC aren’t for younger players and aren’t the end all be all.

Could be Malkin-ish.

#1 center